Pros and cons of religous forums

[Zoness]

? how far, how much, how can any truth sink in if someone rejects it ?

Well rhetorically it's usually the same 6-8 arguments and patterns before there being a storm off. I've had some amazing conversations about philosophical matters with Christians but the key difference there is they weren't openly preaching at me but rather having an honest conversation. Their motives may have been conversion but at least they made an honest effort. That's rarely given in this area and since the rules don't typically favor non-Christians it's best to just disengage if things get too troubling.

 

[Zoness]

Thank you for the response.
May I ask, what heretical beliefs?

Nothing in the way of formal doctrinal heresy but more like I added my own cosmology on top of Christianity. I just never felt well connected to it. I couldn't have put it into the right words back then but I was more into fantasy words and video games and a vague sort of pagan animism than I was with any established religion. Does that make sense?

 

[dlamberth]

? how far, how much, how can any truth sink in if someone rejects it ?

That's an interesting question. I think it depends a lot on what is considered Truth and how it's brought forward. For instance when I think about it I'm able to see Truth in Love. But I see a lot more Truth in Love when I see it actually acted on. A mothers nurturing Love for her new born infant is an example. There's Truth in that kind of Love such that there's no way I'm able to reject it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Likewise, also, I reject the false love , and the false teachings, the deception of religious scholars and religious teachers that Jesus very very strictly warns about.

When you see the true obedient love expressed in true believers,
you will (hopefully / probably?) recognize it .

IT is hardly ever seen, same as honesty is hardly ever seen.

 

[dlamberth]

Likewise, also, I reject the false love , and the false teachings, the deception of religious scholars and religious teachers that Jesus very very strictly warns about.

When you see the true obedient love expressed in true believers,
you will (hopefully / probably?) recognize it .

IT is hardly ever seen, same as honesty is hardly ever seen.

What I like to see in Lovers of God is not obedient Love. Rather it's Love that comes from ones heart and soul that tells me if they are truly in God.

I'm constantly reminded what the middle age Beguine mystic from Northern France whose name is Marguerite Porete wrote. In her book she distinguishes between what she calls "The Great Holy Church" which is the church of the Spirit, and the Little Holy Church". The former church preaches Love; and the latter church preaches rules and law and order.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What I like to see in Lovers of God is not obedient Love. Rather it's Love that comes from ones heart and soul that tells me if they are truly in God.

What you like to see is not important.

What you need to see, to have life, is the Son, Yahweh Willing, and to trust Him, so that you may have life.

Whoever has the Son , whoever trusts Him, has LIFE;
whoever trusts not the Son, has not LIFE.

 

[dlamberth]

What you like to see is not important.

I like to see God everywhere I look. That's important to me. Sorry!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I like to see God everywhere I look. That's important to me. Sorry!

Very sorry.

What you like to see (as you posted), and choose to see, will not ever lead you to God or His Ways.

 

[dlamberth]

What you like to see (as you posted), and choose to see, will not ever lead you to God or His Ways.

So I've heard.

In the mean time I'm so very blessed to be with my Beloved God right now...and His Ways.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

key word for that : "my"

i.e. Not Yahweh , the One True God ,
not by faith in Jesus, the Only One Through Whom anyone might be forgiven of their transgressions and redeemed, to be able to be resurrected to eternal life with the Father Yahweh.

 

[dlamberth]

key word for that : "my"

i.e. Not Yahweh , the One True God ,
not by faith in Jesus, the Only One Through Whom anyone might be forgiven of their transgressions and redeemed, to be able to be resurrected to eternal life with the Father Yahweh.

To be honest, It's not at all about after death stuff for me. That I've completely left that up to God. I'm here on Earth right now. And it's NOW that I have God as my reality in life where He is needed the most. That's what matters to me. You want to point out the "right" image of God. Well, have fun with that. For myselfit's about being IN God that matters. I'll let others argue about the right image and name of God or what ever it is about God, which isn't God. Which is all rather silly to me because all it does is cause separation and division between us and doesn't really get into the mystery much at all. When a person begins to see God just as alive in others of other spiritual traditions as one's own, than you start getting into the mystery of God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

To be honest, It's not at all about after death stuff for me. That I've completely left that up to God. I'm here on Earth right now. And it's NOW that I have God as my reality in life where He is needed the most. That's what matters to me. You want to point out the "right" image of God. Well, have fun with that. For myselfit's about being IN God that matters. I'll let others argue about the right image and name of God or what ever it is about God, which isn't God. Which is all rather silly to me because all it does is cause separation and division between us and doesn't really get into the mystery much at all. When a person begins to see God just as alive in others of other spiritual traditions as one's own, than you start getting into the mystery of God.

All might be well and good for those in the world religions , not knowing the truth.
Yahweh (God) says that happens, that HE gives them up to believe their own delusions.
So there is nothing really anyone can do to change someone's mind, once God gives them up to believe their own delusions. .....

 

[dlamberth]

All might be well and good for those in the world religions , not knowing the truth.
Yahweh (God) says that happens, that HE gives them up to believe their own delusions.
So there is nothing really anyone can do to change someone's mind, once God gives them up to believe their own delusions. .....

Well, God works in mysterious ways. And maybe not exactly how you think He should. It's God who got me where I'm at. And it will be God who moves me along. That's just how it works for me. If you think I live in a delusion, that's your judgment. But I have to disagree with you because I know what I have in God. And when I see God so very alive and vibrant in others of other spiritual traditions it strikes home pretty clearly that God is simply to big to fit into any single religion.

 

[dlamberth]

key word for that : "my"

i.e. Not Yahweh , the One True God ,
not by faith in Jesus, the Only One Through Whom anyone might be forgiven of their transgressions and redeemed, to be able to be resurrected to eternal life with the Father Yahweh.

Your not much into exploring the Mystery of God, are you?

We can go around and around about God and what ever, and never get anywhere.
But what about being IN God?
What are you seeing there?
Is there a common point of connection IN God that we can go to instead?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your not much into exploring the Mystery of God, are you?

We can go around and around about God and what ever, and never get anywhere.
But what about being IN God?
What are you seeing there?
Is there a common point of connection IN God that we can go to instead?

No. Light (Truth, Jesus Messiah) and darkness have nothing in common.
nothing at all.
Jesus Says: Whoever rejects the Light, rejects the Father (God) , and there is no truth in them. They are full of darkness.
Jesus Says: Whoever rejects My Word, rejects Me, and has already rejected My Father in heaven.

 

[dlamberth]

No. Light (Truth, Jesus Messiah) and darkness have nothing in common.
nothing at all.
Jesus Says: Whoever rejects the Light, rejects the Father (God) , and there is no truth in them. They are full of darkness.
Jesus Says: Whoever rejects My Word, rejects Me, and has already rejected My Father in heaven.

Your very focused. I like to look deeper into God than where your hanging.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your very focused. I like to look deeper into God than where your hanging.

And instead, while looking, or trying to and deceived into it, the blind lead the blind, deeper into the pit, which they both fall into,
instead of finding the truth, the one true God by faith in Jesus Himself.

 

[Serving Zion]

Well, God works in mysterious ways. And maybe not exactly how you think He should. It's God who got me where I'm at. And it will be God who moves me along. That's just how it works for me. If you think I live in a delusion, that's your judgment. But I have to disagree with you because I know what I have in God. And when I see God so very alive and vibrant in others of other spiritual traditions it strikes home pretty clearly that God is simply to big to fit into any single religion.

It is all about love (the spirit, that is).. that produces grace, and we recognise that God is love IN us! .. so what does religion have to do with it, if love and God are found regardless of religion (eg: John 10:16)?

.. I think it is about judgement, as you said. Whenever our judgement is wrong, condemnable, we have put beliefs over truth and grace suffers .. to some degree, the spirit is seen in a deathly state, longing for the breath of life .. the kiss of true love!

They are an imprisoned soul, being taken captive in their hardness of heart until they may receive release: acceptance or enlightenment.

True Christian religion (ie as Jesus embodies, and saints achieve greatly), is to exercise right judgement so love is always present .. but also within context of an established body of knowledge.

However, those of the sleeping soul whose belief has blinded their discernment so don't do the truth, they might still speak words based upon the same body of knowledge, but without the breath of life.

They are those whose words do harm, seeking to quench the spirit by warring against love.

I only would like to see you speaking as a Christian so your words may not be inferior when addressing a Christian.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

For me it seems that religious forums make me more cynical and atheistic. I'm not certain why this happens.

Anybody else experience this or maybe the opposite? Why do you think this happens?

I first came here because evangelical proselytizers invaded the pagan forum I frequented back then, and I wanted to debate them at a more appropriate (if more partisan and less even-handed) place. Back then, General Apologetics was still around, so the range of topics was far more diverse and - shall we say: colorful?

There were several different observable effects:

1. Being exposed to evangelical Christianity/Christian fundamentalism rendered my childhood religion virtually unpalatable to me as a whole. Like the Star Wars prequels, these ideologies did not only make a bad impression for themselves, but highlighted what was ugly about a religion I had once loved unconditionally.
2. I realized that the American religious mainstream is roughly at the same point as my country's lunatic fringe.
3. I became more aware of my own beliefs, and learned to refine my perspective by subjecting it to the scrutiny of people who were decidedly NOT of the same mind.
4. I became more political, and less forgiving of ignorance if it turned out to be deliberate and sustained.
5. I learned a lot about different religions and flavors of Christtianity.
6. My relationship with the more sophisticated strains of Christianity improved to the point where I don't picture Chick Tracts, "Creation museums" or "MAGA"-hats upon contact.

 

[cloudyday2]

Back then, General Apologetics was still around, so the range of topics was far more diverse and - shall we say: colorful?

How does the current apologetics sub-forum measure-up?