Propitiation

[o_mlly]

So?

Cherry picking the bible is a form of bible bingo that does not address the totality of its teaching. I don't play bible bingo.

 

[Hammster]

Cherry picking the bible is a form of bible bingo that does not address the totality of its teaching. I don't play bible bingo.

Sure you do. You’ve cherry-picked the verses that focus on grace and mercy. God is singular. He doesn’t have parts. So as much as He is love, grace and mercy, Hr is wrath and justice as well.

 

[o_mlly]

You’ve cherry-picked the verses that focus on grace and mercy. God is singular. He doesn’t have parts. So as much as He is love, grace and mercy, Hr is wrath and justice as well.

No, I posted those verses to display that your sole focus on a wrathful God does not stand up to biblical scrutiny.

 

[Hammster]

No, I posted those verses to display that your sole focus on a wrathful God does not stand up to biblical scrutiny.

I don’t have a sole focus on God’s wrath.

 

[o_mlly]

I don’t have a sole focus on God’s wrath.

Good to know.

Those who think it’s (propitiation) for all take “whole world” prima facia and say God loved the whole world and bore the sins of every man.

True, propitiation has been satisfied. However, reparations for our ongoing sins, as posted, requires man's positive response to God's offer of His loving mercy.

 

[fhansen]

There’s no refusing the pruning. That isn’t the picture shown in scripture.

Sure it is. We can be a branch grafted in and cut back off, we can taste of the heavenly gift and spit it back out, we can escape the pollution of the world by coming to the knowledge of Christ and then return to the pigsty. The Bible warns against returning to the flesh, not overcoming sin, burying our talents, with eternal life at stake

 

[Hammster]

Good to know.

True, propitiation has been satisfied. However, reparations for our ongoing sins, as posted, requires man's positive response to God's offer of His loving mercy.

No they don’t. If God’s wrath was satisfied at the cross, it’s satisfied now.

 

[Hammster]

Sure it is. We can be a branch grafted in and cut back off, we can taste of the heavenly gift and spit it back out, we can escape the pollution of the world by coming to the knowledge of Christ and then return to the pigsty.

But as a Good Shepherd, Christ won’t leave His Father’s sheep to suffer destruction

The Bible warns against returning to the flesh, not overcoming sin, burying our talents, with eternal life at stake

Not really.

 

[fhansen]

But as a Good Shepherd, Christ won’t leave His Father’s sheep to suffer destruction

And as we already established He, alone, knows who they are.

Not really.

Yes, really. Some of the passages have already been quoted.

 

[zoidar]

While useful for some purpose, in a lot of case they were still working out their theology. One of the main focuses early on was on the doctrine of the Trinity, which was codified at Nicene.

Just wanted to show the idea is not a new one.

I guess it’s because that’s not what Paul thought was the truth.

Are you saying it can't be translated and read that way?

No they don’t. If they did then Christ would need to be crucified over and over.

And Colossians says otherwise.

I don't see how that follow. It's like saying a vaccine needs to be reinvented each time it's used.

If all sins are instantly forgiven at the cross, then why do Jesus teach us to ask God for forgiveness when we have sinned? Why not just thank God instead when we have sinned, that He has forgiven us?

 

[o_mlly]

No they don’t. If God’s wrath was satisfied at the cross, it’s satisfied now.

Your interpretation seems to be that man has no responsibility in accomplishing his salvation. There is no need for him "to repent and reform". That is not biblical.

It's your thread, so you may certainly publish your opinion.

 

[Hammster]

And as we already established He, alone, knows who they are.

Of course. His elect.

Yes, really. Some of the passages have already been quoted.

Hard to believe that you don’t see your contradiction.

 

[Hammster]

Just wanted to show the idea is not a new one.

Are you saying it can't be translated and read that way?

Sure it can. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good translation.

I don't see how that follow. It's like saying a vaccine needs to be reinvented each time it's used.

If all sins are instantly forgiven at the cross, then why do Jesus teach us to ask God for forgiveness when we have sinned? Why not just thank God instead when we have sinned, that He has forgiven us?

Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
— John 13:10

 

[Hammster]

Your interpretation seems to be that man has no responsibility in accomplishing his salvation. There is no need for him "to repent and reform". That is not biblical.

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion from that sentence.

 

[o_mlly]

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion from that sentence.

OK.

Generally, it is believed that an individual must follow a certain set of moral or spiritual principles to attain salvation. What responsibility do you think that man has to achieve his salvation?

 

[Hammster]

OK.

Generally, it is believed that an individual must follow a certain set of moral or spiritual principles to attain salvation. What responsibility do you think that man has to achieve his salvation?

What part of salvation are you speaking of? If it’s regeneration, there’s nothing we do. That’s purely an act of grace. As to justification, we must have faith, but that faith comes because of regeneration. If you are speaking of sanctification, we must be obedient, but our obedience comes from having the Holy Spirit in us.

 

[o_mlly]

What part of salvation are you speaking of? If it’s regeneration, there’s nothing we do. That’s purely an act of grace. As to justification, we must have faith, but that faith comes because of regeneration. If you are speaking of sanctification, we must be obedient, but our obedience comes from having the Holy Spirit in us.

We agree: all goodness comes from God.

Does the disobedient man reject God's goodness?

 

[Hammster]

We agree: all goodness comes from God.

Does the disobedient man reject God's goodness?

Are we talking about the regenerate man, or unregenerate man?

Obviously the unregenerate man does, because it’s his nature.

The regenerate man will because of his flesh. But the regenerate is under God’s care. He will be pruned as a fruit-producing branch is pruned. He will be cared for as a sheep is cared for by the shepherd.

 

[fhansen]

Hard to believe that you don’t see your contradiction.

There's no contradiction when one understands that the human will is included in the basis for election.

 

[Hammster]

There's no contradiction when one understands that the human will is included in the basis for election.

Except that it’s not.

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
— John 1:13