Proper Christian Behavior Does Not Include

[Texas Lynn]

Texas Lynn, if I have offended you I apologise.

That's very nice.

But I must admit to wondering how? We have no history, you do not know me. Why the apparent hostility? I understand that being a professing Christian advocating for a homosexual agenda must put you in the line of fire a lot. But certainly not from me.

You seem quite willing to state sterotypes, engage in slurs ("homosexual agenda" for example), and poised with a smug certainty and better-than-you demeanor. If that is not what you wish to be expressing i would urge you to consider what you are saying. Your faction has continually and in an UnChristian manner demonized LGBTs and repeated heterosexist slurs. If you do not wish to express same, don't.

Your replies to me are rife with apparently deliberate misunderstanding of my comments. I think it is obvious to anyone what my meaning was. You make some accusations and insinuations as to my thoughts, motives and feelings. You take issue with my use of reasonable, neutral language, trying to make it into anti-homosexual slurs.

Not at all; liberal slinging of terms like "homosexual agenda" and "gay lifestyle" are unequivocally "antihomosexual slurs" on all occasions.

In particular you claim the the term practicing homosexual is offensive. I ask why? Are the terms practicing attorney, practicing physician, practicing Christian, practising Muslim offensive? I am a practicing Christian. I am also a practicing heterosexual. How is the term offensive? It simply denotes a person is homosexual and not celibate. I would suggest that if that term offends you, when it is identical in usage to many other completely inoffensive terms, then it's you consicence talking to you. If you believe homosexuality to be good, then you cannot reasonably take issue with the term practicing homosexual unless you take offence to the term practicing in relation to anything.

It is statements like this which makes your "apology" equivocal. One does not frequently hear "practicing heterosexual" yet "practicing homosexual" is generally used as a sneer. You can parse it however you want but it's still an offensive term and that has nothing to do with any supposed "guilt" of the hearer. Calling an "African-American" a "Buck" can be parsed into a paean to his sexual prowess, but everyone knows also it is used to claim the person is animalistic compared to civilized whites. So it is with antigay slurs the Religious Right constantly slings.

Your defense here amounts simply to a denial of another's views. Conservatives have an attitude of denial toward oppression and a denial that their conservatism perpetuates it.

Eldridge Cleaver wrote "What appears irrational in the viewpoint of the mother country may appear rational in the viewpoint of the colony". He used the metaphor of European imperialism here to comment on communications issues between African-Americans and white America, but it is also applicable to all instances of oppression such as the British and the Indians and conservative Christians and LGBTs.

Then there is the term homosexual lifestyle. What is wrong with that? I live a heterosexual lifestyle. Big deal. Let's face the facts. In our culture sex is a major part of our lifestyle. Far too much revolves around it. Therefore making a distinction between homosexual nad heterosexual lifestyle is not denigrating but rather reality.

More of the same.

Of course, you signature reveals the true reason for your hostility. The comment that there is no such thing as a compassionate conservative. Well, I am conservative, so I cannot be compassionate. Well, I must ask you how that is at all a Christian attitude?

Bishop May's comment merely means the two are opposing factors. Of course a conservative can be compassionate, but, when they are, they cease acting as a conservative, and that's all there is to that.

For the record,

I am not a homophobe
I do not hate homosexual people
I do not see homosexual acts as any more sinful than what I have done myself
I have no desire to be condescending or denigrating nor was I
I care about people - I would even venture to say I try to act out of love and compassion
Given all that I am a hardcore conservative

I must ask that you not group all conservatives together because some, or many, of the most vocal and visible ones act a certian way. Really, how is that in any way different than what you fight against when it is done to homsexuals?

For one thing, conservatives are not an oppressed group...

All I ask is that you not hate me because I am conservative. After all, are we not of one Father? Are we not part of the same body?

No problem there. I've never thought conservatives are not brothers and sisters. Look around you, you will not see liberal Christians and LGBT Christians claiming conservatives do not go to hebbin. On the other hand...

As Edwin Arlington Robinson wrote

He drew a circle which shut me out
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout
But love had I and will to win
I drew a circle that took him in.

 

[Texas Lynn]

But that sounds like those who promote same-sex unions as they have no teaching to base their acts on. Those who propose avoiding same-sex unions have Christ’s teachings to show.

I once saw a fellow handing out little pamphlets made of half-sheets of paper, folded in half; the title on the front was "What Jesus Christ said about Homosexuality". Open it up, and it was blank.

The antigay contingent does not act upon Christ's teachings on the matter, as there are none, therefore it is they who "have no teaching to base their acts on'.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I don’t spend any time warning homosexuals of hell, I am witnessing the gospel of Jesus Christ to my homosexual friends, if they accept Him as their Lord they will begin to deal with repenting from same-sex unions.

The conclusion is an arrogant assumption with no basis whatsoever.

Why do you spend so much of your time trying to argue against Christian Biblical beliefs on a Christian based forum?

These are not "Christian Biblical Beliefs"; they are an emphasis on an obscure and discredited doctrine for the purpose of exercising dominance.

 

[Texas Lynn]

THAT is the problem. You can't make Jesus the Lord of your life when YOU are sitting on the throne, committing perverse acts against Him. Homosexual acts are indeed sinfully separating one from knowing God

[/B]

No basis for this assertion either.

and the marriage bit---well, that is absurd.

See Cleaver quote above.

Personally I was against same gender marriage and felt no need for pushing it....rather typical I must say of my middle class upbringing. It was grassroots folks who pushed LGBT civil rights groups to press for it, which they finally did, reluctantly at first. I came to see the wisdom of their position as it affirms LGBT unions are every bit as holy as heterosexual marriages, which, they certainly are.

 

[Texas Lynn]

The "marriage bit" is supported by my church. My church honors and performs same-sex marriages. And this "absurd" institution you call the "marriage bit" between same-sex spouses is now legally recognized in a growing number of nations, including yours.

 

[dead2self]

That's very nice.



You seem quite willing to state sterotypes, engage in slurs ("homosexual agenda" for example), and poised with a smug certainty and better-than-you demeanor. If that is not what you wish to be expressing i would urge you to consider what you are saying. Your faction has continually and in an UnChristian manner demonized LGBTs and repeated heterosexist slurs. If you do not wish to express same, don't.



Not at all; liberal slinging of terms like "homosexual agenda" and "gay lifestyle" are unequivocally "antihomosexual slurs" on all occasions.



It is statements like this which makes your "apology" equivocal. One does not frequently hear "practicing heterosexual" yet "practicing homosexual" is generally used as a sneer. You can parse it however you want but it's still an offensive term and that has nothing to do with any supposed "guilt" of the hearer. Calling an "African-American" a "Buck" can be parsed into a paean to his sexual prowess, but everyone knows also it is used to claim the person is animalistic compared to civilized whites. So it is with antigay slurs the Religious Right constantly slings.

Your defense here amounts simply to a denial of another's views. Conservatives have an attitude of denial toward oppression and a denial that their conservatism perpetuates it.

Eldridge Cleaver wrote "What appears irrational in the viewpoint of the mother country may appear rational in the viewpoint of the colony". He used the metaphor of European imperialism here to comment on communications issues between African-Americans and white America, but it is also applicable to all instances of oppression such as the British and the Indians and conservative Christians and LGBTs.



More of the same.



Bishop May's comment merely means the two are opposing factors. Of course a conservative can be compassionate, but, when they are, they cease acting as a conservative, and that's all there is to that.

For the record,



For one thing, conservatives are not an oppressed group...



No problem there. I've never thought conservatives are not brothers and sisters. Look around you, you will not see liberal Christians and LGBT Christians claiming conservatives do not go to hebbin. On the other hand...

As Edwin Arlington Robinson wrote

He drew a circle which shut me out
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout
But love had I and will to win
I drew a circle that took him in.

I made every attempt to be compassionate and yet you accuse me of saying slurs. Also of unchristian behaviour. Honestly, you have the appearance of an extremely bitter person who looks for imagined insults under every stone. In no way have I sought to insult anyone. Yet you have spoken only insults towards me. You read slurs and insults into comments made with no intenet of such. You accuse me of smugness when I in no way expressed I was better than anyone. In fact I believe I mentioned that my sins are at least as bad as those of the people here. I ask if that is truly your denomination's view of a acompassionate Christian? Does that show Christ's love? Or could it simply be that years in this battle have so far removed both sides from loving and compassionate discourse that it is no longer recognized but rather seen as smug superiority.



I pray that God would bless you with peace and healing from whatever wrongs have been done to you. I pray that He would take away your anger and bitterness and give you a heart for mercy and patience. I pray that His grace would fall heavily upon you and that He would encourage you make you strong in your walk for His name's sake.

The LORD bless you and keep you
The LORD make His face to shine upon you
The LORD lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace

For Your glory Father, and in the most high name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

 

[dead2self]

Bishop May's comment merely means the two are opposing factors. Of course a conservative can be compassionate, but, when they are, they cease acting as a conservative, and that's all there is to that.

I must additionally reply to this.

You pick apart everything I say and spin this comment like this. I applaud your audacity my liberal sister. That comment by the good Bishop is far more bigoted and hateful than anything I have said and at least as much so as prevalent conservative rhetoric.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Texas Lynn,

I once saw a fellow handing out little pamphlets made of half-sheets of paper, folded in half; the title on the front was "What Jesus Christ said about Homosexuality". Open it up, and it was blank.

But His teaching warns of same-sex practioners which must be homosexuals, so how do you explain that? If you are going to dispute the passages that warns against same-sex practice then I would say you and that fellow are badly mistaken.
But my comment indirectly invited the presenting of scripture that countenance same-sex acts which your argument could be based on, not only are there none but your response raises the question how can you justify things which you don’t think are mentioned? Take homosexuality and paedophilia, neither mentioned according to you so how could you justify them on the basis of them not being mentioned?

The antigay contingent does not act upon Christ's teachings on the matter, as there are none, therefore it is they who "have no teaching to base their acts on'.

The contingent you refer to have shown you which of Christ’s teachings they act upon, you sadly have presented none on the subject that the pro-gay contingent act upon.

The conclusion is an arrogant assumption with no basis whatsoever.

The basis has been presented to you, your objections to it are becoming like a clanging symbol, what arrogant assumptions and basis can you present?

These are not "Christian Biblical Beliefs"; they are an emphasis on an obscure and discredited doctrine for the purpose of exercising dominance.

Yes they are Christian beliefs, they are Biblical, they have, are and they always will be Christian beliefs, as demonstrated. Are you just here to make negative contradictions or have you some evidence specifically on same-sex acts the topic

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

The Bible does not say "homosexual offenders." That is a translation, and a distorted translation.

The Bible does say homosexual offenders a Biblical translation is a Bible! All reliable Bible translations say homosexuals, homosexual offenders, men abusers of men, sodomites, etc.
Do you speak Greek? Are you an expert in ancient Greek? If not how can you judge a translation wrong?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Crazy_Liz,

It looks to me like it is you who are discriminating, not catlover.

I am fully aware of the dictionary definition, I have no problem with that, the point I made was that the Bible condemns both arrogance and same-sex acts, it was to the Bible my point was made, but you chose not to address that. If you had addressed it you would see one will discriminate against one of them if one denies either.

 

[savedandhappy1]

1. Ephesus – The desirable church that left its first love (Revelation 2:1-7).
2. Smyrna – The persecuted church that suffered poverty and martyrdom (Revelation 2:8-11).
3. Pergamum – The worldly church that mixed doctrines and needed to repent (Rev. 2:12-17).
4. Thyatira – The false church that followed a seductive prophetess (Rev. 2:18-29).
5. Sardis – The "dead" church that fell asleep (Revelation 3:1-6).
6. Philadelphia – The church of brotherly love that endures patiently (Revelation 3:7-13).
7. Laodicea – The "lukewarm" church with a faith that’s neither hot nor cold (Rev. 3:14-22).

Seven Churches in Revelation – Their Ultimate Significance
The seven churches in Revelation are literal churches from the first century AD. However, the seven churches in Revelation also have spiritual significance for churches and believers today. Indeed, the primary purpose for John writing his letters to the seven churches was to deliver Christ’s "report card" for the churches of that time. However, a second purpose for John’s inspired writings was to describe seven types of churches (and individual believers) that would surface time and again throughout history. These short letters to the seven churches of Revelation act as quick and poignant reminders to those who call themselves "followers of Christ."

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/seven-churches-in-revelation.htm

Revelation 2:12-17
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwell, even where Satan's seat is: and thou hold fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that over comes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows saving he that receives it.
Pergamos - Here is a church the Lord seems to indicate is inundated with things of the world, and false doctrines, perhaps some that they are not speaking out against. He clearly mentions the same old stuff that existed all along, such as the Nicolaitans. ( people who wished to install a pompous, worldly hierarchal system of "priesthood") which thing the Lord says he hates. This was the same type of system the Jews had, and clearly, Jesus was not happy with this type of "order".

Revelation 2:18-29
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou suffer that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that over comes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Thyatira - Here, the situation in Pergamos seems to be even more progressed, mention is made of "things sacrificed to Idols" The warnings are stern, the promises for overcoming are true. Balaamism, (worldliness) and Nicolaitanism much more prevalent here, along with the presence of false prophets and such.

http://www.11th-hour.info/Articles/7letters.html

I keep hearing people say the state I live in doesn't allow homosexual unions/marriages, and/or it does and hopefully it won't be long before the others follow.

I also keep hearing how my church does or doesn't accept homosexual unions/marriages, and the letters to the 7 churches came to mind.

We notice how the 3nd and 4th churches mentioned, were/are warned about their worldly ways. I understand how not everyone in this forum believes the Bible, and yet profess to be Christians, but thought maybe those that do believe most of the Bible would understand how being worldly isn't a good thing.

We are told how we must be in this world temporally, but we aren't to be a part of it. So for those that can see how using the worldly acceptance of our actions, whether it be adultery, fornication, homosexuality or whatever sins the world sees nothing wrong with isn't the rule that God uses for acceptance.

 

[KCKID]

I once saw a fellow handing out little pamphlets made of half-sheets of paper, folded in half; the title on the front was "What Jesus Christ said about Homosexuality". Open it up, and it was blank.

But His teaching warns of same-sex practioners which must be homosexuals, so how do you explain that? If you are going to dispute the passages that warns against same-sex practice then I would say you and that fellow are badly mistaken.

Where, pray tell, do the teachings of Jesus warn of same-sex practices? As TexasLynn said, presenting what Jesus had to say about homosexuality would result in a blank page. I'm not so much arguing the right or the wrong of homosexuality right now but merely drawing attention YET AGAIN to the fact that Jesus was silent on the issue.

You also mentioned pedophilia (off-topic, I know) in your post and as to how the Bible says nothing about that subject. You're right, it doesn't. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the entire world silent on this issue until fairly recently? I believe that it's only in recent times that psychology has determined how damaging to a child pedophilia can be. I'm not meaning to make light of such an emotive issue but the Bible evidently didn't see pedophilia to be as explosive an issue as we today have made it. I'm not sure what that means.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Jesus doesn't say anything about posting on the internet, either. I guess that means every one of us here is doing something that is unbiblical.

Perhaps we should all repent, starting with LeeD.

 

[catlover]

1. Ephesus – The desirable church that left its first love (Revelation 2:1-7).
2. Smyrna – The persecuted church that suffered poverty and martyrdom (Revelation 2:8-11).
3. Pergamum – The worldly church that mixed doctrines and needed to repent (Rev. 2:12-17).
4. Thyatira – The false church that followed a seductive prophetess (Rev. 2:18-29).
5. Sardis – The "dead" church that fell asleep (Revelation 3:1-6).
6. Philadelphia – The church of brotherly love that endures patiently (Revelation 3:7-13).
7. Laodicea – The "lukewarm" church with a faith that’s neither hot nor cold (Rev. 3:14-22).

Seven Churches in Revelation – Their Ultimate Significance
The seven churches in Revelation are literal churches from the first century AD. However, the seven churches in Revelation also have spiritual significance for churches and believers today. Indeed, the primary purpose for John writing his letters to the seven churches was to deliver Christ’s "report card" for the churches of that time. However, a second purpose for John’s inspired writings was to describe seven types of churches (and individual believers) that would surface time and again throughout history. These short letters to the seven churches of Revelation act as quick and poignant reminders to those who call themselves "followers of Christ."

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/seven-churches-in-revelation.htm

Revelation 2:12-17
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwell, even where Satan's seat is: and thou hold fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that over comes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows saving he that receives it.
Pergamos - Here is a church the Lord seems to indicate is inundated with things of the world, and false doctrines, perhaps some that they are not speaking out against. He clearly mentions the same old stuff that existed all along, such as the Nicolaitans. ( people who wished to install a pompous, worldly hierarchal system of "priesthood") which thing the Lord says he hates. This was the same type of system the Jews had, and clearly, Jesus was not happy with this type of "order".

Revelation 2:18-29
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou suffer that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that over comes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Thyatira - Here, the situation in Pergamos seems to be even more progressed, mention is made of "things sacrificed to Idols" The warnings are stern, the promises for overcoming are true. Balaamism, (worldliness) and Nicolaitanism much more prevalent here, along with the presence of false prophets and such.

http://www.11th-hour.info/Articles/7letters.html

I keep hearing people say the state I live in doesn't allow homosexual unions/marriages, and/or it does and hopefully it won't be long before the others follow.

I also keep hearing how my church does or doesn't accept homosexual unions/marriages, and the letters to the 7 churches came to mind.

We notice how the 3nd and 4th churches mentioned, were/are warned about their worldly ways. I understand how not everyone in this forum believes the Bible, and yet profess to be Christians, but thought maybe those that do believe most of the Bible would understand how being worldly isn't a good thing.

We are told how we must be in this world temporally, but we aren't to be a part of it. So for those that can see how using the worldly acceptance of our actions, whether it be adultery, fornication, homosexuality or whatever sins the world sees nothing wrong with isn't the rule that God uses for acceptance.

People can be Christians without worshipping The Bible-God doesn't live in a Holy Book-

In fact are you insinuating people need to treat The Bible as the ultimate textbook in order to be a "true" Christian?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear KCKID,

Where, pray tell, do the teachings of Jesus warn of same-sex practices?

We have already been through this, the NT teaching of Jesus through His apostles teach the union of man and woman or celibacy and condemn same-sex unions. The question remains if you wish to justify it show us the teaching of Jesus that countenances it and then we will try and work out the contradiction., but until then your denial is irrelevant.

But

You also mentioned pedophilia (off-topic, I know) in your post and as to how the Bible says nothing about that subject. You're right, it doesn't. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the entire world silent on this issue until fairly recently? I believe that it's only in recent times that psychology has determined how damaging to a child pedophilia can be. I'm not meaning to make light of such an emotive issue but the Bible evidently didn't see pedophilia to be as explosive an issue as we today have made it. I'm not sure what that means.

Wrong again, if a man shall leave his father an mother and be united with his wife then that tells us there is no paedophilia, the children marry when old enough to leave the parents.

 

[Phinehas2]

Ok so that makes same-sex sex and internet posting wrong for you, glad you admit same-sex sex is wrong.

All arguments for same-sex unions are based on straw men and denial.

 

[Phinehas2]

People can be Christians without worshipping The Bible-God doesn't live in a Holy Book-

In fact are you insinuating people need to treat The Bible as the ultimate textbook in order to be a "true" Christian?

again all we have is objection, nothing to support same-sex unions.
In fact Jesus said His words are Spirit and life and when we obey His teaching we know the truth and our joy is complete, his words are living and active; those who believe His words need to live them out, those who don’t yet believe them cant live them out.

 

[jamielindas]

Duly noted. For the record I meant proponents of fair treatment of homosexuals. Forgive the inferrence due to my mistake in terminology.

This sounds like you are advocating (government sanctioned) unfair treatment for anyone who you believe has sinned.
What about all the people that believe YOU have sinned? Christians aren't the only people in the word. Would you be comfortable with unfair treatment because the Jewish faith things you've sinned? If Muslims believe that you have sinned and should be killed (i know, i'm being dramatic), how would you feel about this?

this is the problem when you start trying to make the state enforce religious doctrine. the question quickly becomes WHOSE religious doctrine?
How does a previously secular government choose to enforce one religion over another?

see... the founding fathers already thought this one through and decided that government should stay out of it. Instead they would protect the individuals' rights to live their OWN life as they see fit and moral as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to live their life as they see fit.

Is my being gay preventing anyone from being christian?
Is my marrying a guy preventing anyone else from being moral?
Is my having sex with a guy causing you to sin?

I have the right to sin (in your eyes) as long as I'm not violating your rights.

 

[Phinehas2]

Originally Posted by savedandhappy1

1. Ephesus – The desirable church that left its first love (Revelation 2:1-7).
2. Smyrna – The persecuted church that suffered poverty and martyrdom (Revelation 2:8-11).
3. Pergamum – The worldly church that mixed doctrines and needed to repent (Rev. 2:12-17).
4. Thyatira – The false church that followed a seductive prophetess (Rev. 2:18-29).
5. Sardis – The "dead" church that fell asleep (Revelation 3:1-6).
6. Philadelphia – The church of brotherly love that endures patiently (Revelation 3:7-13).
7. Laodicea – The "lukewarm" church with a faith that’s neither hot nor cold (Rev. 3:14-22).

Seven Churches in Revelation – Their Ultimate Significance
The seven churches in Revelation are literal churches from the first century AD. However, the seven churches in Revelation also have spiritual significance for churches and believers today. Indeed, the primary purpose for John writing his letters to the seven churches was to deliver Christ’s "report card" for the churches of that time. However, a second purpose for John’s inspired writings was to describe seven types of churches (and individual believers) that would surface time and again throughout history. These short letters to the seven churches of Revelation act as quick and poignant reminders to those who call themselves "followers of Christ."

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/s...revelation.htm

Revelation 2:12-17
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwell, even where Satan's seat is: and thou hold fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that over comes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows saving he that receives it.
Pergamos - Here is a church the Lord seems to indicate is inundated with things of the world, and false doctrines, perhaps some that they are not speaking out against. He clearly mentions the same old stuff that existed all along, such as the Nicolaitans. ( people who wished to install a pompous, worldly hierarchal system of "priesthood") which thing the Lord says he hates. This was the same type of system the Jews had, and clearly, Jesus was not happy with this type of "order".

Revelation 2:18-29
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou suffer that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that over comes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Thyatira - Here, the situation in Pergamos seems to be even more progressed, mention is made of "things sacrificed to Idols" The warnings are stern, the promises for overcoming are true. Balaamism, (worldliness) and Nicolaitanism much more prevalent here, along with the presence of false prophets and such.

http://www.11th-hour.info/Articles/7letters.html

I keep hearing people say the state I live in doesn't allow homosexual unions/marriages, and/or it does and hopefully it won't be long before the others follow.

I also keep hearing how my church does or doesn't accept homosexual unions/marriages, and the letters to the 7 churches came to mind.

We notice how the 3nd and 4th churches mentioned, were/are warned about their worldly ways. I understand how not everyone in this forum believes the Bible, and yet profess to be Christians, but thought maybe those that do believe most of the Bible would understand how being worldly isn't a good thing.

We are told how we must be in this world temporally, but we aren't to be a part of it. So for those that can see how using the worldly acceptance of our actions, whether it be adultery, fornication, homosexuality or whatever sins the world sees nothing wrong with isn't the rule that God uses for acceptance.

AMEN!
​

 

[jamielindas]

Ok so that makes same-sex sex and internet posting wrong for you, glad you admit same-sex sex is wrong.

All arguments for same-sex unions are based on straw men and denial.

My argument for same sex unions
-there is no secular reason to deny my right to marry who I love
-it is not actually harming anyone
-it does not interfere with anyone's rights


I have a feeling that you mean all RELIGIOUS arguments.

I said it before and I'll say it again
You can think what you like, you can do what you like, but you can't take away my rights.