Proof???!!!!!

[peteos]

He came back years later and he said he wouold rather die than go through it again so he went to an alterantive medicine place in Mexico.

There is no such thing as alterantive medicine. Only medicine that has been studied and medicine that has not.

 

[Parmenio]

Antioxidents are found in food. They can be and are heavily studied through modern medical practice which means controlled studies. They certainly provide many benefits.

I completely agree. Antioxidants do have a whole host of benefits for the body, but based on what antioxidants are those benefits are unlikely to extend into the realm of bacterial and viral cures.

 

[Vene]

Part of the problem here is differing definitions of homeopathic.
Antioxidents are not homeopathic, they are nutrients found in food. Homeopathic was the concept that "like cures like", by putting in some sort of substance (often poisoness), and then diluting it out to a very small amount. Of course, the idea preceded the advent of modern chemistry and the understanding of molecules. When you dilute a solution, by removing 1/100 of it, and replacing the rest with water, and do so 30 times (as often the procedure), you reduce the molecules of the original substance by 1 times 10 to the minus 60! In other words, much much less then the number of molecules you began with . . .in other words, all of them.

Homepathic practiciners (sp) ignored this fact for nearly a hundred years. It is only recently that they have owned up to it and started creating some silly theories to get around it, such as that the water molecules themselves remember what substance used to be in it.

Antioxidents are found in food. They can be and are heavily studied through modern medical practice which means controlled studies. They certainly provide many benefits.

In other words, Carey is using a strawman. He is talking about consuming food with nutrients with known benefits and calling it homeopathy.

 

[Blayz]

In other words, Carey is using a strawman. He is talking about consuming food with nutrients with known benefits and calling it homeopathy.

To be fair, Carey's comments look like ignorance rather than malice.

I've been trying to find where in the bible it says to drink/eat cocoa. I also wonder how many insects Carey eats, they are nice and biblical.

 

[Vene]

To be fair, Carey's comments look like ignorance rather than malice.

Perhaps, but that doesn't excuse it, it just explains it.

 

[Carey]

I completely agree. Antioxidants do have a whole host of benefits for the body, but based on what antioxidants are those benefits are unlikely to extend into the realm of bacterial and viral cures.

Have you ever heard of anyones body fighting off a viral or bacterial infection without any medical treatment??

If your body is getting what it needs it can do that.

 

[Parmenio]

Have you ever heard of anyones body fighting off a viral or bacterial infection without any medical treatment??

If your body is getting what it needs it can do that.

Yes. See: Common Cold, Chicken Pox, any viral infection you care to name.

You see, we don't really treat all that many viral infections.

As far as bacterial infections go they are myriad. Are you sick right now? Why not? Because your body is well equipped to fight off infection on its own, that is why we still live at all. If you couldn't you'd be a living example of Bubble Boy.

Do you know what an anti-oxidant is chemically? It is just something that reacts out a free O- atom. That's really it. Thus the "anti-oxidant". Bacteria and virii do not attack your body in this way. Bacteria have a variety of ways of damaging you: from excreting a nerve toxin to necrotizing your flesh. Virii as a general rule, invade your cells, hijack their programming, and replicate themselves. Period. No amount of anti-oxidants or colonics are going to save you from that.

 

[USincognito]

There is no such thing as alterantive medicine. Only medicine that has been studied and medicine that has not.

I'd state this more forcefully as there is no alternative medicine - there is medicine and there is quackery.

 

[FishFace]

LOl I have cured my allergies with unprocessed Cocao,acai berry, blueberry, cinnamon, agave, adn almonds in healthy snack/suplement.

Did it now? Correlation does not imply causation, especially in a sample of... one.

It has also cured my sisters fybromayalgia.

Neither of us expected it to do anything it jsut tasted good.

The antioxdant levels are off the charts is why.

Do you know what an antioxidant does? They're not some magic panacaea; they simply slow down oxidation and remove free radical intermediates. If your problem has nothing to do with free radical damage (such as FM) then antioxidants will do nothing.

 

[FishFace]

Lets see my best friend Bob had throat cancer.

The first time he had surgery and Chemo it went into remission he had terrible side effects.

He came back years later and he said he wouold rather die than go through it again so he went to an alterantive medicine place in Mexico.
All he did was colonics, drink Juice and water and exercise for months.
It went into remission and has stayed in remission for twice as many years as the first time from the western medicine quackery and he has had no side effects except he feels better than he did before he got cancer.

So guess which I will pick??

I'm guessing you're not going to pick the one which has had masses of research, international approval and high statistical success rates, and rather go for the one your friend said was good, but which is not proven to be any better than a placebo.

Am I right?

For some reason you want to go with the anecdote of one friend, rather than research done on thousands of patients. That strikes me as somewhat irrational, given that cancers go into remission on their own, and given that chemotherapy is demonstrably effective.

 

[FishFace]

If we alter nature we will have to pay back nature with a side effect.

Cause and effect. The Natural alws Yahweh layed down.

Is taking paracetamol altering nature? What is the side effect? (Assuming you stay within the recommended dose, of course)

He created the human body to run on certain fuels and alternative fuels will break down the machine that carries our soul around for a short time.

Nonsense. Our body is a complex chemical machine, and there is no natural law that says you can't put other chemicals into it without breaking it. Some will be bad, some will be good.

 

[FishFace]

Have you ever heard of anyones body fighting off a viral or bacterial infection without any medical treatment??

Well, viral infections are often difficult to treat, and so are often left to their own devices. We have vaccines to prevent viral infections, though, and we are developing antiretroviral drugs for HIV, which will not just get better.

Bacterial infections also obviously clear up of their own accord - that's what the immune system is there for. But you would be an absolute fool if you thought that antibiotics were pointless. I'm not going to mince words, here - no-one with a working brain can deny that antibiotics work, and save lives.

If your body is getting what it needs it can do that.

Sometimes what your body needs is medicine. Clinical studies show that medicines work. What studies have your alternatives done well in?

If your body is getting what it needs it can rid itself of HIV, eh? Hmm!

 

[peteos]

I'd state this more forcefully as there is no alternative medicine - there is medicine and there is quackery.

The only problem with that distinction is it can be subjective. One's man quackery might be another man's life line. I'm open to any form of treatment, prevention, etc. I don't make any distinction between "natural" remedies and "unnatural" ones (chemicals are chemicals; there are plenty of things found naturally in the world you don't want to put into your body in large dosses). Heck, I am willing to concede just about any witch doctor's standing one foot meditation mantra might actually be effective. But conceding it Might be effective and assuming it is are too different things. Instead, I want evidence something is effective before I spend hard earned money on it, or before I risk my health of it versus alternate treatments. And here is the real question; HOW CAN WE KNOW IT IS EFFECTIVE? Through one of the best inventions of the 20th century; the double blind controlled study.

What is NOT evidence.

"Jim has been licking the bark of ash trees and his blood pressure has gone down!"

What IS evidence.

"We gathered 1000 random people with high blood pressure. 500 of them licked the bark of ash trees, the other 500 licked a synthetic material that tastes and feels just like ash. The patients were not instructed to change any of their other behavior patterns, including food, diet, or exercise. The blood pressure was then measured for all 1000 people. The statistical results were..."

Its simple. Tested verses untested medicine. If there is an "alternate" form of treating cancer, like downing Seasilver, MGM-3, Ambrotose, Horse doses of Vitamin C; then those promoting it should do a controlled double blind study on it to determine if it is indeed more effective. I hope they find it IS more effective. You were be surprised (actually you would NOT be surprised) at how resistant the companies that peddle this stuff are from actually doing studies when pressed, despite what they claim on the shiny pamphlets.

 

[FishFace]

Virii

Ahem it's viruses

 

[Carey]

Well, viral infections are often difficult to treat, and so are often left to their own devices. We have vaccines to prevent viral infections, though, and we are developing antiretroviral drugs for HIV, which will not just get better.

Bacterial infections also obviously clear up of their own accord - that's what the immune system is there for. But you would be an absolute fool if you thought that antibiotics were pointless. I'm not going to mince words, here - no-one with a working brain can deny that antibiotics work, and save lives.



Sometimes what your body needs is medicine. Clinical studies show that medicines work. What studies have your alternatives done well in?

If your body is getting what it needs it can rid itself of HIV, eh? Hmm!

Yes there have been people cured of HIV .

MY cousin was cured of Hepetitus C which the evil AMA and other Organizations with false studies that are widely promoted by these evil western medicine agancies say cannot be cured.

If they admitted these things could be cured the entire western world economy would collapose . Use your brain.

Forgive me if I sound harsh but it is a little upsetting to me to see what are apparently intelligent people so easily lead aroud like mindless cattle.

 

[Carey]

This is part of staying healthy and also biblical too.


"A man reaps what he sows." Galatians 6:7 (NIV) Managing your mind should be one of your top priorities. Your mind is like a computer, it only spits out the data you feed it. Winners work hard at investing the right material inside themselves. Dr. Hans Selye researched and popularized a tiny membrane in the back of our head known as the RAS: Reticular Activating System. Your RAS has a primary function: it moves you in the direction of your dominant thought at that moment. We naturally act on what fills our minds.
When we become preoccupied with a thought, eventually we want to act on it. This explains a lot of things - like why so many rapes happen after guys have watched pornography night after night. It also explains the huge amount of violence among young people between the ages of 12 and 24. By then the average young person has seen more than 4,000 murders on TV, not to mention video games. Indiana University School of Medicine studied how the images we see impact our brains. For instance, adolescents who'd a higher level of exposure to violence, had reduced levels of cognitive function. The more violence they saw the less thinking, learning, reasoning and emotional stamina they had. The garbage they fed their minds affected what came out. Their computer stored the wrong information - now they could only retrieve the wrong stuff.
The apostle Paul didn't know about computers. But he knew about agriculture: "The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life" (Galatians 6:8 NIV). So, manage your mind!

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Yes there have been people cured of HIV .

MY cousin was cured of Hepetitus C which the evil AMA and other Organizations with false studies that are widely promoted by these evil western medicine agancies say cannot be cured.

If they admitted these things could be cured the entire western world economy would collapose . Use your brain.

Forgive me if I sound harsh but it is a little upsetting to me to see what are apparently intelligent people so easily lead aroud like mindless cattle.

I hate to burst your bubble, but Hepatitis C is curable.

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Interferon and ribavirin are two drugs licensed for the treatment of persons with chronic hepatitis C. [/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Interferon can be taken alone or in combination with ribavirin. Combination therapy, using pegylated interferon and ribavirin, is currently the treatment of choice.[/SIZE][/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Combination therapy can get rid of the virus in up to 5 out of 10 persons for genotype 1 and in up to 8 out of 10 persons for genotype 2 and 3.
  [/SIZE][/FONT]

(source)

I guess they haven't recieved the memo about the HepC conspiracy.

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Yes there have been people cured of HIV .

MY cousin was cured of Hepetitus C which the evil AMA and other Organizations with false studies that are widely promoted by these evil western medicine agancies say cannot be cured.

If they admitted these things could be cured the entire western world economy would collapose . Use your brain.

Forgive me if I sound harsh but it is a little upsetting to me to see what are apparently intelligent people so easily lead aroud like mindless cattle.

Yes it's all a big conspiracy

Hepatitis C can be a very mild disease where symptoms come and go. So do you think your cousin is cured because he's feeling ok or is it because he has been tested negative after an initial positive?

 

[Carey]

I hate to burst your bubble, but Hepatitis C is curable.


I guess they haven't recieved the memo about the HepC conspiracy.

I guess you have not been following the thread.

HIV and Cancer can be cured to without sruregry or drugs.

 

[peteos]

If they admitted these things could be cured the entire western world economy would collapose . Use your brain.

Forgive me if I sound harsh but it is a little upsetting to me to see what are apparently intelligent people so easily lead aroud like mindless cattle.

My irony meter just exploded.