Proof US election is rigged - Vote shaving software discovered

[MrSpikey]

@MrSpikey That info, and or link already exists. I'm only looking for a way to prove the vote cast.

The US still generally conducts it's elections by secret ballot. The actual vote cast is anonymised as part of the process - for paper ballots, this is done by validating the right to vote, then giving an anonymous paper ballot; specific electronic processes will be more complicated, but that link between voter and vote will still be broken before the votes end up being counted.

Your argument implicitly says the government should record how their citizens voted. You believe that if you think your vote was altered illegally, you should be able to go to court to challenge that fact. That only works if the gov't can tell the court what vote they have recorded for you. That only exists if the vote is not a secret.

For me, that's a dangerous road to go down.

 

[LostMarbels]

The US still generally conducts it's elections by secret ballot. The actual vote cast is anonymised as part of the process - for paper ballots, this is done by validating the right to vote, then giving an anonymous paper ballot; specific electronic processes will be more complicated, but that link between voter and vote will still be broken before the votes end up being counted.

Your argument implicitly says the government should record how their citizens voted. You believe that if you think your vote was altered illegally, you should be able to go to court to challenge that fact. That only works if the gov't can tell the court what vote they have recorded for you. That only exists if the vote is not a secret.

For me, that's a dangerous road to go down.

So do you want any accountability? Or do you just trust them blindly?

 

[MrSpikey]

So do you want any accountability? Or do you just trust them blindly?

If you think the government is such a corrupt entity as to rig elections and cause the numerous attrocities I keep hearing will happen if Trump doesn't win, I'm amazed you want the government to know how you voted.

It's a simple tradeoff - secret ballots are conducted under strict conditions, and those involved parties can monitor and call out what they see as violations of those laws. The opposition between these parties is what should keep the system clean.

Or, there's your proposal, where how everyone voted is available on a website, operated by the government, who then has all the raw data - to do (or not do) with as they like.

Don't get me wrong, I see the point you are trying to make, but I don't see how you think what you propose improves things. If the gov't is going to fix your vote, why would they then not lie about it in court should you challenge it? What's the evidential value of your printout/screenshot/etc?

 

[LostMarbels]

It was a simple question realy. Should the government have any accountability?

 

[MrSpikey]

It was a simple question realy. Should the government have any accountability?

Oh, I'm all for that.

I'm not sure how you think what you propose achieves that. If they are falsifying records generally, why don't you think they would do that before any kind of court ordered discovery in a particular case?

If the future direction of the US is as dire as some here claim, are you happy for the gov't to know you vote a certain way?

 

[LostMarbels]

Oh, I'm all for that.

I'm not sure how you think what you propose achieves that. If they are falsifying records generally, why don't you think they would do that before any kind of court ordered discovery in a particular case?

If the future direction of the US is as dire as some here claim, are you happy for the gov't to know you vote a certain way?

Uhhh... well they have my IP right now, and know all the government websites, and other sites I visit. So not particularly worried.

If they are monitoring me I want to remind them it is my personal belief Hillary is a sham staged by a corrupt political establishment that needs to be utterly destroyed. Hillary for prison 2016.

As far as the polling goes, the first thing you do is sign in and show registration. This is time stamped, and you are assigned a polling booth. You go to your assigned booth cast you vote, which is time stamped and designated to that booth, and you leave. So, it is as simple as looking at the log to see when you came in, what booth you were at, and find the corresponding ballet. It isn't some overtly secret process like you think. Im just looking for a way to prove my vote.

 

[MrSpikey]

Uhhh... well they have my IP right now, and know all the government websites, and other sites I visit. So not particularly worried.

If they are monitoring me I want to remind them it is my personal belief Hillary is a sham staged by a corrupt political establishment that needs to be utterly destroyed. Hillary for prison 2016.

As far as the polling goes, the first thing you do is sign in and show registration. This is time stamped, and you are assigned a polling booth. You go to your assigned booth cast you vote, which is time stamped and designated to that booth, and you leave. So, it is as simple as looking at the log to see when you came in, what booth you were at, and find the corresponding ballet. It isn't some overtly secret process like you think. Im just looking for a way to prove my vote.

OK, so, let me try and reassure you...

You mostly likely don't have a single "IP". Most household Internet access gets dynamic addresses - so your IP has been different before, and will be again. You share them with a large pool of people, so at any particular time, an IP address doesn't identify a particular, let alone a user.

Any website you have visited has your IP. They just can't link it to a personal identity. This includes government websites.

All the things you list as being recorded are correct! They know you voted. They may or may not record which booth you went to.

The ballot is still secret in that how you voted is not recorded in a form that others can later access.

Once more, if you are happy to change that arrangement, then that's your view. I can't see how, with an implicit assumption of government corruption, you think it would make a difference - other than providing a government you apparently already view as vindictive with information to attack their enemies.

 

[LostMarbels]

OK, so, let me try and reassure you...

You mostly likely don't have a single "IP". Most household Internet access gets dynamic addresses - so your IP has been different before, and will be again. You share them with a large pool of people, so at any particular time, an IP address doesn't identify a particular, let alone a user.

Any website you have visited has your IP. They just can't link it to a personal identity. This includes government websites.

All the things you list as being recorded are correct! They know you voted. They may or may not record which booth you went to.

The ballot is still secret in that how you voted is not recorded in a form that others can later access.

Once more, if you are happy to change that arrangement, then that's your view. I can't see how, with an implicit assumption of government corruption, you think it would make a difference - other than providing a government you apparently already view as vindictive with information to attack their enemies.

You would be surprised what you can find with an IP. and how easy they are to acquire.

It give the people they are already attacking in secret, teeth. If you have verifiable evidence in a proceeding it will be very hard to ignore it. It would also present an obstacle they would have to circumvent.

 

[MrSpikey]

You would be surprised what you can find with an IP. and how easy they are to acquire.

No, I really wouldn't. This is an area I've worked in 20+ years, so I'm pretty comfortable with knowing the finer details about such things.

Let me also add - I'm also happy to state I'm not an expert when the subject under consideration isn't something I know lots about.

It's a sensible approach.

You should try it.

But let's not let that get in the way of what will doubtless be a thrilling discussion! Please tell me:

What can be derived from your IP address? When is that derivation valid? How long is that analysis valid for?

I'd be grateful if you could split your response by the types of IP address you want to talk about (static/dynamic rather than 4/6) so we don't have to waste more time than is necessary.

How easily is this info acquired?

I'm positively giddy with anticipating your answer already!