Proof that God exists?

[Wiccan_Child]

Doubtful? Debating who he was would prove to be much more interesting an argument than "if" he was.

Nevertheless, we must start somewhere.

There are to many historical accounts to honestly question his existence. True, it pretty much is biblical but the bible is not written by one individual.

Indeed. It was written by a variety of people starting decades after his death. So much for contemporary record-keeping. Besides, my personal contention is that only Peter existed at the alleged time; the other gospels were, I think, retroactively written. This would certainly explain why the myths surrounding Jesus became more and more Paganised as the early church developed. But that's just me.

Furthermore, people put there lives at risk and ended up dieing over their belief in Jesus. First hand witnesses. Spin it how you like but that is pretty compelling that they were willing to die over it.

Many people have died for many things. Doesn't add validity to their claims. If it did, we'd all be Muslims.

Motion. If you understand motion you know that it doesn't move... without a mover.

And if you understand something about quantum mechanics, you'd realise that this isn't true. Spontaneous movement is an everyday occurance in the quantum world.

Aquinas made the same assumptions of reality Newtonion mechanics makes. Too bad they're wrong.

Trace this back and if there is no God, what moved first? Imagination?

Assuming your logic is correct, you could define 'God' as the Prime Mover. Of course, that would do nothing more than prove deism right. It wouldn't, for instance, demonstrate that 'God' is an intelligence that answers the prayers of Christians and manifested as a human. Or that 'God' sent the angel Gibreael to Muhammed. Or that 'God' manifested as the various avatars of Vishnu.

In any case, the 'Prime Mover' argument is perhaps more flawed than the teleological argument.

Human=Complexity
Divine=God
Extra Terrestrial=Complexity

You have to either explain away God and complexity issues or accept CREATOR.

And the explanation is (drum roll please) common descent! Modern biological complexity arose as a result of evolution by natural selection of a single organism.

Or post (pardon me) nonsense again.

I believe the timestamp issue is doing that for me.

 

[Ken-1122]

Here's an interesting website purporting to prove without a doubt God's existence.

It's a series of questions designed to lead you to that conclusion.

Proof That God Exists

Of course if you don't give the right answers it leads you nowhere.

It's an interesting philosophical exercise though. What do you guys think?

The problem with the quiz is it attempts to put morality in the same catagory as math, science, and logic. That doesn't work because moral laws change from person to person; whereas logic, math, and scientific laws do not

Ken

 

[trientje]

The problem with the quiz is it attempts to put morality in the same catagory as math, science, and logic. That doesn't work because moral laws change from person to person; whereas logic, math, and scientific laws do not

Ken

Maybe in your world does moral laws change from person to person but in the Christian world moral laws are an absolute. They are God's laws and God's laws do not change and are constant for all believers.

 

[Gadarene]

Maybe in your world does moral laws change from person to person but in the Christian world moral laws are an absolute. They are God's laws and God's laws do not change and are constant for all believers.

*cough*newcovenant*cough*

 

[Elioenai26]

*cough*newcovenant*cough*

Are you trying to say that the New Covenant changes the Law of the Old?

 

[Gadarene]

Are you trying to say that the New Covenant changes the Law of the Old?

It's different to that of the old. Many laws are no longer binding, many things that were sins now aren't.

 

[trientje]

Are you trying to say that the New Covenant changes the Law of the Old?

No, Please understand, Jesus didn't come to change the laws but to fulfill the laws.

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

[Elioenai26]

It's different to that of the old. Many laws are no longer binding, many things that were sins now aren't.

Various ordinances have changed. The underlying principles which made the various ordinances binding have not. Understanding this makes a great difference in proposing what you have, as opposed to what Christ said about the Law.

 

[Gadarene]

Various ordinances have changed. The underlying principles which made the various ordinances binding have not. Understanding this makes a great difference in proposing what you have, as opposed to what Christ said about the Law.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

It was one thing. A period of time elapsed. Now it's something else.

It changed. Denial of this is nothing more than delusion.

 

[Gadarene]

As I'm always amused to point out - what we would call paedophilia and a sin now was an acceptable marriage and not a sin back in OT times. There are multiple other instances of 'godly' morals changing.

 

[quatona]

As I'm always amused to point out - what we would call paedophilia and a sin now was an acceptable marriage and not a sin back in OT times. There are multiple other instances of 'godly' morals changing.

It´s not "changing" when you call it "fulfilling"...

 

[someguy14]

All goodness is accomplished in God.

 

[Tinker Grey]

All evil is accomplished in God.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) "...I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."

 

[The Engineer]

All goodness is accomplished in God.

Like witch burnings, for example?

 

[Elioenai26]

As I'm always amused to point out - what we would call paedophilia and a sin now was an acceptable marriage and not a sin back in OT times. There are multiple other instances of 'godly' morals changing.

You said that you were a Christian at one point, is this correct?

If this is correct, do you mind me asking what caused you to renounce Christ and become an atheist?

 

[The Engineer]

You said that you were a Christian at one point, is this correct?

If this is correct, do you mind me asking what caused you to renounce Christ and become an atheist?

What does this have to do with his comment?

 

[Elioenai26]

What does this have to do with his comment?

With all due respect, I would like for him to answer for himself. If he does not want to answer, then that is fine.

 

[Gadarene]

With all due respect, I would like for him to answer for himself. If he does not want to answer, then that is fine.

Red herring - and I don't.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Maybe in your world does moral laws change from person to person but in the Christian world moral laws are an absolute. They are God's laws and God's laws do not change and are constant for all believers.

God's laws never change. But people's idea of "God" does change, and so too do the "absolute" moral laws associated with that idea.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

As one of my students told me, she likes the orbiting teapot theory* and so do I. I gave her a cookie too.

* I really should remember who said that, but I don't.

Bertrand Russel, I think.