Progress in abiogenesis research

[rjw]

Another problem associated with an understanding of a natural origin of life is the existence of enzymes. These massive proteins come in zillions of different shapes, only a very few of which are important to living organisms. So a question has been as to just how there was enough time for the right ones to have evolved.

Well this problem too is beginning to tumble, thanks to some nifty experiments:-

Alzheimer's molecules may have powered early life


Then there is this, brought to my attention by a poster named KeithC on another forum:-

Scientists have found that biological molecules like the amino-acids can be formed naturally. Such molecules may be the basis for abiogenic formation of the first cells. That does not explain how the descendants of such cells evolved the enzymes needed to produce such molecules via cellular metabolism.

I think that that particular mystery has been explained.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...omises cheaper, greener way to make new drugs

 

[PsychoSarah]

Another problem associated with an understanding of a natural origin of life is the existence of enzymes. These massive proteins come in zillions of different shapes, only a very few of which are important to living organisms. So a question has been as to just how there was enough time for the right ones to have evolved.

Well this problem too is beginning to tumble, thanks to some nifty experiments:-

Alzheimer's molecules may have powered early life


Then there is this, brought to my attention by a poster named KeithC on another forum:-

Really? This surprises me, as those kinds of proteins that cause Alzeheimer's are a bit on the resilient side for being useful in life processes. Proteins that organic life uses normally can be easily broken apart and reformed into different configurations as the cell needs. These things are very rigid.

 

[dysert]

Another problem associated with an understanding of a natural origin of life is the existence of enzymes. These massive proteins come in zillions of different shapes, only a very few of which are important to living organisms. So a question has been as to just how there was enough time for the right ones to have evolved.

Well this problem too is beginning to tumble, thanks to some nifty experiments:-

Alzheimer's molecules may have powered early life


Then there is this, brought to my attention by a poster named KeithC on another forum:-

Scientists have found that biological molecules like the amino-acids can be formed naturally.

What does it mean that they can be formed "naturally"? Like, an amino-acid can be formed out of rock? What's the predecessor to the amino-acid?

 

[PsychoSarah]

What does it mean that they can be formed "naturally"? Like, an amino-acid can be formed out of rock? What's the predecessor to the amino-acid?

Other molecules, all which easily form in nature outside of living systems.

 

[dysert]

Other molecules, all which easily form in nature outside of living systems.

Sorry to be dense, but the little biology I learned I've long forgotten.

Rocks are made of molecules, right? Are you saying that under certain conditions rock molecules can end up forming amino-acids?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sorry to be dense, but the little biology I learned I've long forgotten.

Rocks are made of molecules, right? Are you saying that under certain conditions rock molecules can end up forming amino-acids?

Yes, all you need is carbon, and many rocks do contain carbon. Combined with the prevalence of hydrogen in the environment and a few other elements needed to make organic molecules, and it is all there.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Although, most of that carbon would be in the form of carbon dioxide.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What does it mean that they can be formed "naturally"? Like, an amino-acid can be formed out of rock? What's the predecessor to the amino-acid?

We already know that amino acids form naturally. That was shown long ago by the Miller-Urey experiments and by the observations of amino acids found in asteroids.

 

[MerlinJ]

Check out the Miller-Urey experiment. A test tube with four abundant molecules and an electric current resulted in a dozen or so different amino acids forming.

edit: Ack, too slow.

 

[AV1611VET]

Check out the Miller-Urey experiment. A test tube with four abundant molecules and an electric current resulted in a dozen or so different amino acids forming.

If my memory serves me correctly, the Miller-Urey experiment had to use a trap at the bottom to trap things that would have destroyed the amino acids before they were even formed (or shortly thereafter).

Nature has no such trap.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Miller-Urey experiment had to use a trap at the bottom to trap things that would have destroyed the amino acids before they were even formed (or shortly thereafter).

Nature has no such trap.

And yet, we find amino acids in nature all the time outside of living systems. And those molecules would have broken down the amino acids perhaps, but they can easily reform, and pulling them apart can actually allow for more complex ones to form, a sort of molecular natural selection, if you will.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Miller-Urey experiment had to use a trap at the bottom to trap things that would have destroyed the amino acids before they were even formed (or shortly thereafter).

Nature has no such trap.

Sure it does. The deep seas are a trap. It does not take too much seawater to block the potentially hazardous (to the amino acids0 UV light.

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet, we find amino acids in nature all the time outside of living systems.

You should, if God put them there.

Mother Nature certainly didn't.

I'll bet Miller-Urey found amino acids in their laboratory after their experiment was over too.

Intelligent design?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You should, if God put them there.

Mother Nature certainly didn't.

I'll bet Miller-Urey found amino acids in their laboratory after their experiment was over too.

Intelligent design?

The sample was clean of amino acids before the experiment. Scientists know how to do that.


If you want to you can reproduce the experiment yourself, and the problem is moot at any rate since there are other natural sources of amino acids.

 

[AV1611VET]

The sample was clean of amino acids before the experiment.

I was talking about AFTER the experiment; not before it.

Wouldn't amino acids be found in his lab AFTER the experiment; if his experiment was a success?

Wouldn't this be an example of intelligent design?

 

[sfs]

I was talking about AFTER the experiment; not before it.

Wouldn't amino acids be found in his lab AFTER the experiment; if his experiment was a success?

Wouldn't this be an example of intelligent design?

No, it's not an example of intelligent design. Intelligent design would be coming up with a set of chemical reactions that you have determined in advance will produce amino acids. Sticking some chemicals, all thought to have been present on the early earth, into a flask and running electricity through it is modeling a natural, unintelligent process.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, it's not an example of intelligent design. Intelligent design would be coming up with a set of chemical reactions that you have determined in advance will produce amino acids. Sticking some chemicals, all thought to have been present on the early earth, into a flask and running electricity through it is modeling a natural, unintelligent process.

Would Thalidomide constitute intelligent design?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Would Thalidomide constitute intelligent design?

How is this not off topic? Stop mentioning this already.

 

[MerlinJ]

Would Thalidomide constitute intelligent design?

Does Thalidomide appear in nature? Because Intelligent Design is the idea that a creator (God) is the best explanation for observations in nature.

Imagine if we decided that God was the best explanation for lightning and left it at that. We'd still be living in caves, and you would have probably died 30 years ago from a toothache.

 

[Loudmouth]

Wouldn't this be an example of intelligent design?

Creationist: If abiogenesis is true, then you should be able to show in a lab that amino acids can emerge from simple chemicals through abiotic processes.

Scientist: That's exactly what we did.

Creationist: Ok, what I said before doesn't count anymore.