Professor at Evangelical College suspended for saying Muslims and Christians have connection in God

[RDKirk]

She teaches political science, not theology. And there are a plenty of Christians, many of them quite learned who would agree with her.

That would mean theology is not within her purview to make statements as a professor.

 

[smaneck]

The college's official statement is here:

http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center...heaton-College-Statement-Regarding-Dr-Hawkins

Note that she's currently on paid administrative leave, not fired or even suspended.

She was suspended for Spring Semester. Yes, she is being paid. She has a contract with Wheaton College and if they don't pay for the full academic year, whether she works or not, she can sue them.

The college's Statement of Faith that she signed is here:

http://www.wheaton.edu/About-Wheaton/Statement-of-Faith-and-Educational-Purpose

Says a lot about what you are supposed to believe, not a thing about what you're not allowed to believe.

 

[smaneck]

That would mean theology is not within her purview to make statements as a professor.

Her comments were made on Facebook, not in the classroom.

 

[seashale76]

Do they call God Allah or not?

They do, and it is irrelevant to your argument that we worship the same God. Christians believe Christ is God. Muslims don't. This is something both Muslims and Christians agree on, that we do NOT agree on the nature of God. Ergo, it's not the same God. It's really that simple. In English we use the word God and that can mean vastly different things to different people, referring to various different gods. Having the same root for our religion doesn't mean we worship the same God. We do not agree as to the nature of God, so the God we each worship cannot be the same. In fact, our respective religions considers this a deal-breaker issue to us.

You're letting your own religious views on this topic influence how you think the rest of us outside of your faith need to define God, ignoring the fact that we do not define this concept the way you do. If you reject the Holy Trinity and the notion that Christ is God, then you don't worship the same God as I do. This is not me being mean or not inclusive or whatever it is people want it to be. It's just a fact.

 

[He is Risen 72]

I go to a parish where I hear Arabic every Sunday. I can tell you right now, our understanding of God is not the same as Islam. Islam rejects Christ as God.

And in doing so, they reject God in full.

 

[He is Risen 72]

If a person desires to teach in a Christian college, they are expected to uphold the beliefs of that institution. She could have resigned if she does not agree that Christianity and Islam have nothing in common. Why did she pretend to be a Christian?

The pretenders of Christianity are legion. They are fairly easy to spot though, usually the people that are promoting interfaith dialog or reconciliation with Islam and Judaism. They get you to let your guard down and remove the armor of the risen Christ.

 

[AionPhanes]

This is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches on the issue. I happen to agree with their understanding:

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."
-Lumen Gentium 16 from Vatican II
​

And also from Vatican 2:

"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God."
-CCC841, Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, Nostra Aetate, 3
​

 

[Zoness]

Tbh, I more or less hold her opinion and I guess I don't see what's so crazy about it, other than she deviated from the pretty orthodox views of the school. Abrahamic faiths have tons of linking threads including an undying hatred for each other.

But honestly, it might be in her best interest to find work in a secular institution

 

[RDKirk]

Her comments were made on Facebook, not in the classroom.

Are you saying you don't realize that employers all over the place are holding employees responsible for their Facebook utterances?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Are you saying you don't realize that employers all over the place are holding employees responsible for their Facebook utterances?

We have been cautioned at work about this, and here in Canada there are recent laws that give employers "teeth" to deal with these breaches of policy and decorum.

 

[smaneck]

If you reject the Holy Trinity and the notion that Christ is God, then you don't worship the same God as I do. This is not me being mean or not inclusive or whatever it is people want it to be. It's just a fact.

Gotcha. You do not worship Yahweh.

 

[smaneck]

Are you saying you don't realize that employers all over the place are holding employees responsible for their Facebook utterances?

Employees are entitled to free speech just like everyone else. There was nothing she said that was lacking in 'decorum.'

 

[smaneck]

This is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches on the issue. I happen to agree with their understanding:

​

You'll get kicked out of Wheaton for becoming a Catholic as well.

 

[RDKirk]

Employees are entitled to free speech just like everyone else. There was nothing she said that was lacking in 'decorum.'

Yes, they are entitled to free speech, but they are not entitled to continued employment. Even the company I work for can, will, and tell you upfront that if you connect yourself to them as an employee, you'd better clear whatever you post with them first.

As well, the military has <ahem> guidelines about what a soldier can post as a soldier, especially if he's in a leadership position.

Most companies do these days. If you haven't heard of people being fired for what the post--especially teachers--you haven't been listening very well.

 

[Arthra]

Well Abdul-Baha said something very similar to Professor Hawkins about Christians and Muslims worshipping the same God over a hundred years ago... so no argument there.

 

[Job8]

"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself;...

Allah is NOT Yahweh Elohim [the LORD God, the triune Godhead.] For someone who claims to be the Vicar of Christ on earth and Pontifex Maximus, this statement reveals a total misunderstanding of both Christianity and Islam. How can Muslims possibly adore "the one God" whom we know as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, when they not only REJECT THE TRINITY but call Christians infidels because they do not accept Islam?????

Please note carefully what the Koran has to say, and why the Roman Catholic position is utterly false and misleading:

Whoever seeks other than Islam as a religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers (Sura 3:85) [THE LOSERS ARE DESTINED FOR HELL]

O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, and do not say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is the Messenger of Allah, and His Word that He conveyed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and do not say, "Three." Refrain-it is better for you. Allah is only one God. Glory be to Him-that He should have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and the earth, and Allah is a sufficient Protector. (Sura 4:171). [REJECTION OF THE "THREE" IN THE TRINITY]

They disbelieve those who say, "Allah is the third of three." But there is no deity except the One God. If they do not refrain from what they say, a painful torment will befall those among them who disbelieve. (Sura 5:73) [REJECTION OF THE TRINITY]

Allah will not forgive that partners be associated with Him; but will forgive anything less than that, to whomever He wills. Anyone who ascribes partners to Allah has strayed into far error. (Sura 4:116) [REJECTION OF THE TRINITY]

In the Koran, Jesus is simply "the son of Mary" and Islam rejects Jesus as "the Son of God", let alone God manifest in the flesh. Pandering to Muslims and Islam has become the trademark of the church of Rome.

 

[smaneck]

Allah is NOT Yahweh Elohim

Actually Allah is a direct cognate to Eloh.

[the LORD God, the triune Godhead.]

Yahweh isn't even mentioned in the New Testament. Yahweh is the Jewish name for God and they never saw Him a Triune.

For someone who claims to be the Vicar of Christ on earth and Pontifex Maximus, this statement reveals a total misunderstanding of both Christianity and Islam.

As if you know better.

How can Muslims possibly adore "the one God" whom we know as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, when they not only REJECT THE TRINITY but call Christians infidels because they do not accept Islam?????

No, they call Christians People of the Book. You are the one effectively calling them infidels.

Whoever seeks other than Islam as a religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers (Sura 3:85) [THE LOSERS ARE DESTINED FOR HELL]

And this is different from what you believe, how?

[REJECTION OF THE "THREE" IN THE TRINITY]

Yes, like Jews, Muslims don't believe in the Trinity. Now tell us something we don't know.

Allah will not forgive that partners be associated with Him; but will forgive anything less than that, to whomever He wills. Anyone who ascribes partners to Allah has strayed into far error. (Sura 4:116) [REJECTION OF THE TRINITY]

Actually that particular verse was aimed at those who believed worshiped three female deities thought to be daughters of Allah. I'm not sure how that verse differs from Deut. 6:4 or Isaiah 45:5

 

[LoAmmi]

Yahweh isn't even mentioned in the New Testament. Yahweh is the Jewish name for God and they never saw Him a Triune.

No, it isn't. It is someone's best guess at a name religious Jews make no attempt at speaking since we don't know how it was pronounced. People went ahead and ran with it because that's what people do.

 

[RDKirk]

No, it isn't. It is someone's best guess at a name religious Jews make no attempt at speaking since we don't know how it was pronounced. People went ahead and ran with it because that's what people do.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that early Christians used it (or anything else) either. Rather specifically, Christians are directed to use the name of Jesus.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

This is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches on the issue. I happen to agree with their understanding:

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."
-Lumen Gentium 16 from Vatican II
​

And also from Vatican 2:

"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God."
-CCC841, Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, Nostra Aetate, 3
​

You are definitely on point with what it is that you have noted and many thanks for stating this directly. With regards to Orthodoxy, there have been groups who have noted the same thing.

The Anthiochian Orthodox come to mind as well.

• Antioch and the Middle East - Antiochian Orthodox Christian ...

For basic info, in an interview given to the Syrian newspaper al-Thawra Online, the ecumenist Patriarch of Antioch, John X Yazigi, re-iterates his belief in the brotherhood between Islam and Christianity. He states that, “Ever since the coming of Islam, we have lived together and have built a common history.” It is the case, like Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that Pat. John is enthusiastic about the celebration of Islamic feasts, such as Eid al-Adha. AS said best elsewhere in Patriarch John X Interviewed on the Church in Syria ...
:

​

What role does the Antiochian Orthodox Church play as a part of the social fabric of Syria? What has it done and what will it do?

To start, we would like to direct our warmest greetings to the Syrian people as a whole and our Muslim brothers in particular on the occasion of Eid el-Adha. Many happy returns.

The Patriarchate and our Orthodox Christian people are a fundamental part of our country. We are Syrians, the children of this nation. We were born here, as were our fathers and grandfathers. Christianity started out here and we feel that we are one family with all the country’s communities. Throughout history, the Patriarchate has been—and we hope it shall remain—a fundamental factor for common life in dignity, for reinforcing all the national and historical foundations that have brought us together ever since Christianity appeared in these lands. Ever since the coming of Islam, we have lived together and have built a common history. There is no doubt that our future is one."
​

There have been others who have noted the same thing, especially within the OO World, when it comes to solidarity and seeking to address the issue as best as they can. Whenever I see others speaking on the Church not having solidarity, it is always odd seeing other Christians say "Muslims and Christians could NEVER worship the same!!!!!" since that's not even what the Church says.

Not certain as to how much research you may have done on the subject prior - but on the issue, the best place to start (if wanting to know how the Copts and the Muslims interact) would be to examine what some of the Bishops of the Church have said on the matter. There's His Holiness Pope Shenouda I in what he noted. Specifically, following the death of Pope Shenouda III, here is an exclusive interview conducted with the 117th Coptic pope from 1996 that discusses the rise of fundamentalist Islam in the middle east, the persecution of Coptic christians in Egypt, and the relationship between Copts and the rest of the Christian faith.

The Pope that followed him is another to consider - as Tawadros II has spoken out against the nation's Islamist leadership, giving a cautious but unusually critical commentary

Additionally, Bishop Angaelos is a big example of someone who gives perfect demonstration of the example walked out by other Orthodox when it comes to the Muslims...

More was shared on him and what other Copts have shared elsewhere...

​

Even though relations are strained, there are still others seeking to be examples of what the Lord desired. From what I've often seen, there were many groups that have often noted how they had no desire to respond in violence whenever tension arises...as is the case with the Copts in Egypt and how they've often sought to live in harmony with Muslims--with many Muslims desiring to do the same even though others from Radical Isalm make it difficult and cause drama on all sides, including getting others incensed outside of Egypt. It requires a lot of examination when it comes to the complex interactions between Muslims and Christians, including the reality of believers from Muslim backgrounds who live in Islamic systems/share aspects of commonality with Muslims while trying to reach out to them as many have for centuries, especially seeing how the early Church saw Islam as a heresy..with much conversation/dialogue and peaceful times occurring....and others are seeing the kind of relationships people had with Muslims in the early church and how RADICAL Islam preys upon people not aware of that).

Muslims seeking to support Coptic or Oriental Christians is not a new reality - just as it's not new that there have been times Christians have harmed Muslims. For the Copts, it's a big deal to walk out what Christ noted when it came to being a neighbor to those in need - be it Muslim or Christian.

For other places to investigate, one may wish to consider places like Muslims vs Christians in Egypt.. ...

Additionally, as it concerns the ways that Orthodox Churches have been coming together as it concerns helping out Muslims on multiple levels, you may consider going here for reference:

May the Lord bless them and may we not forget what they're going through or treat it as if it's of no consequence. And the same in regards to many of the Muslims who've been harmed by the same people destroying the world of Ancient Christianity amongst the Copts in Egypt

One of my dear sisters in Christ (who's Eastern Orthodox) was once conversing with an Orthodox Deacon about world events. Somehow, Egypt came up, and the Deacon said, "You know, given how hard things are for the Copts, I expect most of the Copt community will have left Egypt in the coming decades." That was under Mubarak.

And yet the Copts have been truly amazing in how they've handled things. Bishop Angaelos is making a world of difference, as he is even-tempered and is very much about inter-faith dialouge/ecumenical work. (shared more in depth here in #1 /#42 ). Complex as Islam/its origins are (more shared here and here /here), the man doesn't seem to demonize all of those within Islam---and Bishop Angaelos seems to have more of the mindset that Paul had in Acts 17, where he sought to find common ground with those he was witnessing to in Athens before trying to show them where they may've missed it. Bishop Angaelos - who describes the Egyptian bombing as "unprecedented" - still seeks to do as Paul noted in I Peter 2:11-25 when it comes to living godly lives amongst the pagans and submitting to government as best as one can so that one's faith will shine. His example of how he handled himself when discussing the bombing in Egypt and threats made to the UK and other European churches by other radicals is still one of the most astounding witnesses I've seen ...and his interviews have always been refreshing.

As he made clear on Muslims in one interview (for one brief excerpt):

CT: There are a number of legal requirements that hinder Christian freedom, such as the need for permits to build churches. Do you see the solution being government-led, with changes to the legal framework?

Bishop Angaelos: It has to be a combined effort. The church has its role, the government has its role and as long as we stick to our role faithfully everything will be fine. The government has a certain onus on it to provide a social structure that allows for people to grow and integrate positively. The church has a role to maintain people in their faith. We don’t want to turn into a political party. As a bishop of the church I don’t want to be a political activist, I have other things to do. I would much rather lead my people in prayer. But, and we see it in Scripture, advocating for people is a responsibility and calling for justice is a responsibility.


CT: It seems it is not the majority of Muslims who are against Christians but rather a hard line section of the Muslim community that is attacking Christians. How should the church approach them?

Bishop Angaelos: There are two major components. The first is the minority radical element and [change] will have to come from their leadership and a sense of civil order where if you go and commit a certain crime you will be brought to justice, whereas in the past few decades so many crimes have been committed and no one is brought to justice. So there is a civil side of things. But then you are speaking about the mass majority and I agree that not every Muslim wants to kill a Christian, but there is an increased polarisation and radicalisation that comes from the few and this is partly due to massive poverty and illiteracy and a social void in some areas and some people try to jump into that void and try to fill it.​

Very excellent example of calling out that which is wrong...and yet realizing the need for Christians to work with the local governments with what they have. And for other interviews:

BBC World News Interview.wmv
H.G. Bishop Angaelos at the BBC - 3/01/2011​

Some may think the Coptic Church is akin to tolerating bullies when it comes to trying to work with Islamic Governments/the rules they set....and in the minds of many, fighting back is the ONLY Reasonable option.


And in many ways, many in Islam can be bullies who need to be stopped.

Part of me wonders, however, about the other side of bullying....and that's loving the bully till you win him over to your side...as many Muslims have noted when it came to their seeing the love of Christ so manifest in the Bible and through other Christians that they were won over from much of what they saw in Islam. If Jesus said for believers to love their enemies and do good to those who hate you ( Luke 6:27-36)---and said that mercy was always reflective of what it meant to be Sons of the Most High--then I'd wonder who'd be reflecting the Lord more when it comes to how bullies are addressed. I don't think self-defense is a negative necessarily, as I don't see where Christ advocated that in the scriptures and absolute pacifism is something disciples of Christ are bound to walk in.....but on the same token, there can be alot of danger occurring when people try to fight fire with fire...and be just as aggressive as those coming against them.


People can say they'll beat up a bully to put him in check--only to end up prolonging a conflict/making a bully more determined to wipe them out and leading to a blood bath or friends of the person bullied being harm as a result (as has happened in many schools fights). And likewise, for many, to respond with fighting/violent speech toward all in Islam is not something that'll lead to true peace. For the real issue is spiritual----and for many Muslims, the LOVE of Christ is what they need to see. As the old saying goes, "The best way to get rid of enemies is to make them into friends." There was a story I once heard of where a pastor asked his son to name the greatest superhero--and his son said "Superman!!!!", to which the pastor disagreed. When the son noted that Superman could beat up/destory all of the bad guys, the pastor noted back that only Jesus could make bad guys turn into good ones....and then work for Him.


What the Lord asks of believers:

Pray the fullest blessing of Christ on them whether they love you or not.

• 
  
  
  • Luke 6:28 - Bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
  • Romans 12:14 - Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
  • 1 Corinthians 4:12 - When reviled, we bless.

Do good to them in practical ways that meet physical needs.

• 
  
  
  • Luke 6:27 - Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.
  • Luke 6:31 - As you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
  • 1 Thessalonians 5:15 - See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone.
  • Romans 12:20 - If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.

Do not retaliate when personally wronged.

• 
  
  
  • 1 Peter 3:9 - Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.
  • Romans 12:17, 19 - Repay no one evil for evil ... Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."

Live peaceably with them as much as it depends on you.

• 
  
  
  • Romans 12:18 - If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Seek to comprehend the meaning of what they say, so that your affirmations or criticisms are based on true understanding, not distortion or caricature.

• 
  
  
  • 1 Corinthians 13:6 - Love does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices with the truth.

For those Coptic Christians who've had to deal extensively with Muslims and yet won them through the Love of Christ, I salute them---and on love, I agree with those Coptic Orthodox who've noted that practical love is a witness to the love of Christ. Witness is not withheld where it is needed most. ..and conversions coerced by force or finances contradicts the very nature of saving faith. Saving faith is a free embrace of Jesus as our Savior, Lord, and highest Treasure.

And as one of my dear sisters said best in regards to the Copts and Bishop Anagelos (from #74 ):

I wonder how EO and OOs had to come together during the revolutions in Egypt, as it concerns what happened in the Middle East with the Arab spring - and Russia itself/The Russian Orthodox Church has been deeply connected with the Arab Revolutions...

• 
  
  
  • 
    
    • 
      
      • ]Russia and the Arab Spring - Carnegie Endowment for

​

Additionally, in the event you did not know, as said best in Coptic Pope and Patriarch Tawadros Arrives in Moscow ...Voices from Russia
:

​

His Holiness Pope and Patriarch Tawadros Sulaymān, 118th Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of all Africa of the Holy Apostolic See of Saint Mark, accompanied by a patriarchal delegation, arrived in Russia on 28 October 2014 ahead of a historic visit. HH Pope Tawadros will visit His Holiness Patriarch Kirill Gundyaev of Moscow and all the Russias on 29 October 2014, marking 26 years since the visit of the previous Pope of Alexandria, His Holiness the late Pope Shenouda who participated in the celebration of the Millennium of the Christianisation of Russia and the baptism of St Vladimir. His Holiness was met at Moscow’s Domodedovo airport by Metropolitan Ilarion Alfeyev of Volokolamsk, Chairman of the MP Synodal Department for External Church Relations in Moscow and His Excellency Dr Mahmoud El-Badry, Ambassador of the Arab Republic of Egypt to the Russian Federation, as well as Their Graces Bishop Kyrillos of Milan, Papal Exarch in Europe, and Bishop Angaelos, General Bishop of the Coptic Orthodox Church in the UK. a delegation comprising Metropolitan Bishoy of Damietta and Their Graces: Bishop Raphael, General Secretary of the Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church and Bishop Serapion of Los Angeles and Papal secretary Father Angelos Ishak and official spokesman of the Coptic Orthodox Church, Fr Boules Haleem accompanied Pope Tawadros.

From Moscow, Bishop Angaelos said:

“This fraternal visit is important because it marks the first visit of a Coptic Pope to Russia in 26 years and marks and demonstrates the depth of relationship between our two Churches and the many commonalities we share in our heritage and experience”. There’ll be a reception for Pope Tawadros at the Egyptian Embassy on the evening of 28 October 2014, and he’ll undertake various official visits and pastoral engagements throughout the duration of his stay.

28 October 2014

The Coptic Orthodox Church Centre UK

http://copticcentre.blogspot.com/2014/10/press-release-his-holiness-pope.html

click here and here for the patriarchia.ru coverage
​

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