Professor at Evangelical College suspended for saying Muslims and Christians have connection in God

[Gxg (G²)]

The failure of your analogy is that there is no guy they're pointing to.

Rather, they are each describing someone they individually know (or have merely heard of). One person's description is vastly different from the other's description. Nobody would think they're talking about the same person, even if they call that person by the same name. In this case, it's not even the same "name," it's merely a generic noun. Muslims have something they call "god" that they describe very much differently from our description of Jesus.

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?'" -- John 14:9

We have a lot of information about the things Jesus did and how He treated those around Him. A description of different attributes is a description of a different person. Any god that is not describable by the character of Jesus is some other god.

However, it should be noted that many Muslims are very "ripe for the harvest," if given the true, direct harvest. Islam "innoculates" Muslims against statements of Christian doctrine. Telling a Muslim that "Jesus is God" will be met with resistance because Islam has already taught them, "They will say Jesus is God, but that is wrong because...."

But they already accept Jesus as being from God. They even accept the virgin birth. Merely sit read the Gospels with them, let the Holy Spirit unfold it before them in the words of scripture, refrain from shoving "doctrine" at them. That works.

I think a lot of the battle, of course, comes from the fact that one cannot speak uniformly of all Muslims describing Jesus differently from Christians (Just as not all claiming to be Christians have ever described Christ the same - part of the battles happening in the Early Church with Alaric and Arians in Goth territory/the Catholic Church connected with them vs. Orientals vs. EO and others). What was present with Jesus in the Qu'ran echoes what was already present on the information about the things Jesus did and how he treated his audiences. What happens many times, unfortunately, is that many in Islam are taught by Imams who do not read the Qu'ran fully and have consistently ignored the Imams who actually taught their people to submit to Jesus and see Him.....and they are thus made immune toward statements according to the Qu'ran just as Christians today are trained to listen to whatever a pastor says more than actually listening to what the Bible/Scriptures and Biblical history have pointed out. Of course, for Muslims who already noted long before encountering a Christian "Of course Jesus is God - why are you surprised at that fact?", the cultural/geographical gap does make a difference with how much we do or don't know. What you may encounter is others saying "I believe Jesus is God - our text says such - but I do not feel like I have to leave my community in order to actually follow Jesus or Isa as if being a follower means following all things you guys do."

And of course, when the Lord comes to them in DREAMS to reveal Himself powerfully, it is confirmation on the fact that they were already seeking the Lord and He met them where they were just like Cornelius in Acts 10-11. The Lord is working with others where they are in astounding ways...and going after them in the supernatural. But he is also going after them with learning what their text says when it comes to Immans who come to Isa.

There was an excellent series by someone who grew up in Islam on this very issue when it comes to seeing where the Qu'ran attests to the Divinity of Christ:
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  • Qur'an Contradiction: Is Jesus God or Not? - Answering Islam

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[Gxg (G²)]

She didn't say "we believe the same things about God." The fact that Christians and Muslims believe different things about God wouldn't invalidate her statement. That we disagree about Gods nature doesn't imply that we are not talking about the same God. If a person with vision problems pointed at a guy named John Doe and said; "John Doe right there is 6 ft tall and has blue eyes", and another person says; "No, that person, John Doe, is actually 5 ft 10 and has green eyes," that wouldn't imply that the two people are talking about a different John Doe. They merely disagree about his attributes. Same thing with Muslims and Christians regarding the God and creator of the universe.

As long as there's realization that Christ is Messiah and God incarnate, there's grace when knowing how things take time for others to articulate more fully in comparison with another group...

 

[RDKirk]

But I'll say again, it's unlikely this is the single reason she was fired.

 

[smaneck]

Are you seriously telling us non-Christians we can't say we believe in God because we don't believe in the Trinity? Why even have a World Religion Forum in that case?

Admin Hat...

Just a caution regarding both the statement of purpose for this forum and the rules of CF:

While it is fine to look to the common origins of "Abrahamic" faiths; CF defines Christianity in the words of the Nicene Creed. Such being the case, God is three persons, and saying to a god worshiped in a non trinitarian form is at odds with our statement of faith, and therefore at odds with and against our rules.

Please be mindful of this, as there have been posts in this thread that have not only pushed the outside of the envelope, but have gone so far as to imply that a non trinitarian definition of god is God.

Mark
CF Admin

 

[smaneck]

I cannot and will never worship "Allah" nor venerate his "prophet". I hope more Christian institutions stand with Wheaton.

Arab Christians all venerate Allah.

 

[LoAmmi]

Are you seriously telling us non-Christians we can't say we believe in God because we don't believe in the Trinity? Why even have a World Religion Forum in that case?

It's ok. I kind of like it when Christians tell me that they don't worship the same deity as Jews.

 

[smaneck]

Just because John of Damascus did not recognize the religion as Islam is not evidence that it was not used at the time. It is clearly there in the Qur'an. I know the thesis of the book Hagarism tries to argue that John of Damascus is more reliable than Muslim sources but that would be like taking Roman descriptions of Christianity over Christian sources. Nothing is harder for an outsider to understand than someone else's religion.

Also, Constantine does not make Christianity the official religion of the Empire, he simply legalized it. However, he did see it as his prerogative as Emperor to maintain the unity of the church so that non-believers would not be scandalized by its divisions. Hence the Council of Nicaea.

 

[Licoricepup]

How sad that she is punished for behaving as a Christian.

She's not behaving as a Christian when she blasphemes God and the scriptures in such a way.

In Genesis does it say God created humans from a blood clot? A piece of thick coagulated clay?

 

[smaneck]

It's ok. I kind of like it when Christians tell me that they don't worship the same deity as Jews.

Yeah, but you don't believe in Progressive Revelation.

 

[Licoricepup]

It's ok. I kind of like it when Christians tell me that they don't worship the same deity as Jews.

I would never believe that an actual Christian would have said that.

 

[smaneck]

She's not behaving as a Christian when she blasphemes God and the scriptures in such a way.

In Genesis does it say God created humans from a blood clot? A piece of thick coagulated clay?

The Qur'an also refers to humans being made of clay, but these words are put in Satan's mouth:

"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they boweddown; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down. (God) said: “What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?” He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.”"

According to Islam the Original Sin of Satan was mutassub, i.e. the pride and arrogance expressed in prejudice and fanaticism.

 

[smaneck]

I would never believe that an actual Christian would have said that.

Said what the mod had said? Because that is what Loammi and I are referring to.

 

[smaneck]

But I'll say again, it's unlikely this is the single reason she was fired.

Well, if you can find another one, let us know.

 

[LoAmmi]

I would never believe that an actual Christian would have said that.

I've seen several say it.

 

[Licoricepup]

Said what the mod had said? Because that is what Loammi and I are referring to.

I responded to exactly what Lo had posted and will not infer anything exists behind the words that was posted and to which I addressed my reply.

 

[smaneck]

She shouldn't have been suspended? She's a professor! If she's so clueless about Christianity I wouldn't want her teaching my kids.

She teaches political science, not theology. And there are a plenty of Christians, many of them quite learned who would agree with her.

 

[smaneck]

I go to a parish where I hear Arabic every Sunday. I can tell you right now, our understanding of God is not the same as Islam.

Do they call God Allah or not?

 

[Licoricepup]

The Qur'an also refers to humans being made of clay, but these words are put in Satan's mouth:

"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they boweddown; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down. (God) said: “What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?” He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.”"

According to Islam the Original Sin of Satan was mutassub, i.e. the pride and arrogance expressed in prejudice and fanaticism.

One could easily infer that would then make ISIS and all Jihadi terrorist Muslims mutassub, yes?

Further, that was not an answer to my query.

 

[RDKirk]

Well, if you can find another one, let us know.

The college's official statement is here:

http://www.wheaton.edu/Media-Center...heaton-College-Statement-Regarding-Dr-Hawkins

Note that she's currently on paid administrative leave, not fired or even suspended.

The college's Statement of Faith that she signed is here:

http://www.wheaton.edu/About-Wheaton/Statement-of-Faith-and-Educational-Purpose

 

[smaneck]

Absolutely. Terrorists are definitely mutassub.