Problems with Heliocentrism

[I'm_Sorry]

I'm not sure which is more amusing, that you believe in a flat earth or that you believe the book of Enoch was written by the biblical Enoch.

If you are interested in other historical works, might I recommend J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit?

-CryptoLutheran

Do you believe in Genesis?

That's Authority.

Read the 4th day of creation and come back.

OH BTW JRR Tolkien's Inklings Club consisted of members of the hermetic order of the golden dawn.

Tolkien borrows heavily from mysticism.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Do you believe in Genesis?

That's Authority.

Read the 4th day of creation and come back.

I don't have any issue with the book of Genesis. My issue is with your flat-earthism and your notion that the 3rd century BCE apocalyptic book of Enoch was actually written by the biblical Enoch.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[I'm_Sorry]

I don't have any issue with the book of Genesis. My issue is with your flat-earthism and your notion that the 3rd century BCE apocalyptic book of Enoch was actually written by the biblical Enoch.

-CryptoLutheran

Who wrote the Torah?

Biblical Moses?

I don't hold Enoch above the bible.

Its clear that the sun and moon were created on the 4th day.

Its completely different to heliocentric formation hypothesis.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Who wrote the Torah?

Biblical Moses?

Moses didn't write the Pentateuch, no. There were probably at least four authors whose work contributed to the Pentateuch, three for Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, and a fourth for Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy shows indications of being later by its somewhat more mature views, namely its more explicit monotheistic statements; where for example the earliest works seem to indicate a form of Hebrew henotheism, Deuteronomy seems pretty clearly monotheist. Strict monotheism emerged as a fairly organic and natural perspective among the Israelites in relation to the God they believed in; and as a Christian I confess and believe had a relationship with; and thus the evolving nature of Israel's understanding of God is consistent with the Christian belief in the unfolding revelation and divine drama that reaches its climax in Jesus Christ.

Keep in mind that I'm a Christian, not a Biblicist. My faith is in the Word of God, Jesus Christ. The purpose of Scripture is to point to Jesus, not point to itself, the Bible without Jesus is little more than a waste of paper. Or at best some interesting stories.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Moses didn't write the Pentateuch, no. There were probably at least four authors whose work contributed to the Pentateuch, three for Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, and a fourth for Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy shows indications of being later by its somewhat more mature views, namely its more explicit monotheistic statements; where for example the earliest works seem to indicate a form of Hebrew henotheism, Deuteronomy seems pretty clearly monotheist. Strict monotheism emerged as a fairly organic and natural perspective among the Israelites in relation to the God they believed in; and as a Christian I confess and believe had a relationship with; and thus the evolving nature of Israel's understanding of God is consistent with the Christian belief in the unfolding revelation and divine drama that reaches its climax in Jesus Christ.

Keep in mind that I'm a Christian, not a Biblicist. My faith is in the Word of God, Jesus Christ. The purpose of Scripture is to point to Jesus, not point to itself, the Bible without Jesus is little more than a waste of paper. Or at best some interesting stories.

-CryptoLutheran

Did the NT reference the book of Enoch?

See: Problems with Heliocentrism

 

[ViaCrucis]

Did the NT reference the book of Enoch?

The antilegomenous Epistle of Jude quotes from it.
St. Paul quotes Epimenides and Aratus.

-CryptoLuthes

 

[I'm_Sorry]

The antilegomenous Epistle of Jude quotes from it.
St. Paul quotes Epimenides and Aratus.

-CryptoLuthes

They main point here is that the "sun at the centre" knowledge came from ancient Egyptian Thoth and Hermes Trismegistus and Hermeticicm.

Was resurrected after the mystery schools became outward during the Renascence and Copernicus polished it of.

The Hebrews and the early Christians didn't believe in the spinning globe sun centred blasphemy.

 

[ViaCrucis]

They main point here is that the "sun at the centre" knowledge came from ancient Egyptian Thoth and Hermes Trismegistus and Hermeticicm.

Was resurrected after the mystery schools became outward during the Renascence and Copernicus polished it of.

The Hebrews and the early Christians didn't believe in the spinning globe sun centred blasphemy.

Cool.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Cool.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

You seem to be under the mistaken notion that because I'm a Lutheran I believe that any old opinion held by the Reformers has any weight.

Not how Lutheranism works.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[I'm_Sorry]

You seem to be under the mistaken notion that because I'm a Lutheran I believe that any old opinion held by the Reformers has any weight.

Not how Lutheranism works.

-CryptoLutheran

Ok sorry, lets leave the theology for another thread?

 

[Jimmy D]

If only someone would send up some sort of device with a camera affixed we could settle this matter once and for all. Maybe it would bump into the firmament before it got high enough though.

 

[Joshua_5]

-_- sir, you can see satellites when it is dark enough outside on a clear night. Furthermore, just NASA? You do understand that dozens of countries have put up satellites, right? Not to mention the various businesses that use them for broadcasting purposes. I not only ask why all these different governments, some of which are enemies, would all be in on some cover-up that no satellite has ever been put into orbit, but these private businesses as well?

Satellites predate photoshop by decades, sir. DECADES. Do you even understand how many resources would have to be wasted to keep up this ruse for more than 50 years? It's not only ridiculous, but it isn't even feasible to accomplish it. Do you understand that so many people would have to be involved as to make keeping this secret entirely impossible? They made not one error to give themselves away to the masses in this long? I'm sorry, but you overestimate the competence of your own species and the scope of our capabilities.

Why all the NASA photos of Earth of various sizes, if satellites, as NASA portrays, actually exist? Do some research and you'll see the size of the Earth as shown by NASA, varied on average several times per decade since the 50's.

Moving stars have never been proven the same thing as the objects launched by NASA and the other lying "space" agencies.

 

[Jimmy D]

Why all the NASA photos of Earth of various sizes, if satellites, as NASA portrays, actually exist? Do some research and you'll see the size of the Earth as shown by NASA, varied on average several times per decade since the 50's.

It's a head scratcher alright.

 

[lesliedellow]

Why all the NASA photos of Earth of various sizes, if satellites, as NASA portrays, actually exist? Do some research and you'll see the size of the Earth as shown by NASA, varied on average several times per decade since the 50's.

Oh really. And if I showed you a picture of a rubik's cube, and I had photoshopped out the background, would you be able to judge its size? What when I put the background back in, and it turned out to be a twelve foot high cube in some amusement park somewhere?

So what is the background you were using to assess the size of the Earth in NASA's photographs?

 

[JohnMartin]

"I think it's correct to say that Christianity has always had sort of an ability to absorb the developments in science. But, it's always done it very slowly. So take the Copernican revolution, it took the church centuries before it realized that the Copernican revolution was actually a contribution to the life of the church, the development of our view of ourselves in terms of the Universe, and therefore our view of God, et cetera. But, that took centuries, and struggles, and conflicts before that happened."

George Coyne

If that's the best you've got, then Coyne has not denied geocentrism.

JM

 

[bhsmte]

Funny stuff.

 

[lesliedellow]

If that's the best you've got, then Coyne has not denied geocentrism.

JM

How is endorsing the Copernican revolution, and lamenting that it took the Catholic Church centuries to come to terms with it, not endorsing heliocentrism?

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's a head scratcher alright.

It's almost as though pictures were taken from different angles and from different distances. But that certainly can't be right.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Bungle_Bear]

How is endorsing the Copernican revolution, and lamenting that it took the Catholic Church centuries to come to terms with it, not endorsing heliocentrism?

The challenge was

See if you can find a quote from George Coyne where he denies goecentrism

JM can play word games all day long - endorsing heliocentrism is not the same as denying geocentrism.