Problems understanding the Trinity

[Ken-1122]

I’ve never understood the Trinity. According to my understanding, God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 separate people but one God. I’ve never had it explained to me in a way that makes sense; perhaps someone here who believes in the trinity can explain it in a way that it does.
Also, which scripture in the Bible actually says the Holy Spirit is God?

Ken

 

[drich0150]

I’ve never understood the Trinity. According to my understanding, God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 separate people but one God. I’ve never had it explained to me in a way that makes sense; perhaps someone here who believes in the trinity can explain it in a way that it does.
Also, which scripture in the Bible actually says the Holy Spirit is God?

Ken

God is one entity. Or if you rather God is the title of one being. This being has 3 aspects or three separate natures. The first has the role of a Father, in that He creates, He governs, and He maintains sovereign authority. The Next is the Son. He (like any Jewish son in OT time) had the role of enacting the will of the Father, with the Same authority as the Father. If the Father is the Master Architect, the Son is The General contractor. The Holy Spirit is different in that we do not have a parallel role that accurately portrays what He does. Basically this aspect of God is a liaison between the basic believer and the other two aspects of God. He empowers, defends, protects.

Also to your last question here are nearly 5 pages of references of the Holy Spirit enacting the role of God.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Holy%20Spirit&version1=31&searchtype=all

 

[John Jay]

I’ve never understood the Trinity. According to my understanding, God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 separate people but one God.

Sounds like you understand it just fine.

I’ve never had it explained to me in a way that makes sense; perhaps someone here who believes in the trinity can explain it in a way that it does.

Be very careful here. Some very well meaning people are going to try to compare God to water, ice, and steam, or a man being a husband, son, and father, or something like that.

While on the surface those comparisons look good, the problem is that they present the Godhead as being one thing that's merely represented in three different ways, rather than three distinct persons all holding one office.

I'd rather you just know that God is one God revealed in three seperate and distinct persons and not understand how, than to try to understand it but get the three in one part wrong.

Also, which scripture in the Bible actually says the Holy Spirit is God?

There are several examples, but I would go with Acts 5:3-4, where Peter says (and I'm paraphrasing here) "what in the world posessed you to lie to the Holy Spirit? Don't you know that by doing that, you haven't just lied to men, but lied to God?"

 

[Hakan101]

I have difficulty fully understanding this as well. Because if God is one being, how is it then that Jesus seemed to be separate from God, albeit with an intimate relationship with him?

 

[solarwave]

I’ve never understood the Trinity. According to my understanding, God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 separate people but one God. I’ve never had it explained to me in a way that makes sense; perhaps someone here who believes in the trinity can explain it in a way that it does.
Also, which scripture in the Bible actually says the Holy Spirit is God?

Ken

I'll tell you how I understand it even though some Christians might disagree with it.

There is one God and the one-ness of God is more fundemental than the trinity of God in my opinion. The trinity is a choice by God whereas His one-ness is unchangable.

The trinity is different ways God reveals Himself. Jesus was fully human but also so connected to God and mind so at one with God that can be called God in human form. So Jesus is what God would be if He were human. Obviously there has to be a loss of all the 'omni' attributes for Jesus to be human, but the way God thinks could be translated into a human brain.

The Holy Spirit is harder to understand since most people don't have much knowledge of what 'spirit' actually means. So I'll just say that the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God in the Universe by His actions in time.

The Father is the trancendant creator and ultimate mind of Reality.

So one God, made known in different ways, which allows God to be made known to aliens as well. I could be wrong of course, but I find this helps be understand the Trinity.

 

[razeontherock]

I’ve never understood the Trinity. Also, which scripture in the Bible actually says the Holy Spirit is God?

Trinity is throughout Scripture:

Isaiah 33:22 "For the LORD [is] our judge, the LORD [is] our lawgiver, the LORD [is] our king; he will save us." (That's Old Testament, in case you didn't know)

Also more OT, which is also confirmed in the NT:

Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;"

That is "the 7 Spirits of the Lord," spoken of in Rev 3:1, 4:5, and 5:6. So we see that Trinity is no be all and end all of fathoming who G-d is; it's just one way He has shown Himself. They are all valid! With Jesus Himself being the most significant to us mortals.

 

[elopez]

I’ve never understood the Trinity. According to my understanding, God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all 3 separate people but one God. I’ve never had it explained to me in a way that makes sense; perhaps someone here who believes in the trinity can explain it in a way that it does.
Also, which scripture in the Bible actually says the Holy Spirit is God?

Ken

We shouldn't expect to fully understand the Trinity. Yes, God is the father, is the Son, and is the Holy Spirit. All three persons are distinct from one another yet in accordance in regards to their wills and nature. What exactly with the Trinity are you having troubles with?

I'm not familiar with any verse in the Bible that explicitly says the Holy Spirit is God, yet there are numerous passages that connect the Holy Spirit with God, and a couple verses specifically comes to mind Acts 5:3-4: "But Peter said, Ananias, why has http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Acts 5.3-4#footnote0Satan filled your heart to lie http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Acts 5.3-4#footnote1to the Holy Spirit andhttp://biblia.com/bible/esv/Acts 5.3-4#footnote2 to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Acts 5.3-4#footnote3to God." To me the passage says if we lie to the Holy Spirit we lie to God, so the Holy Spirit must be God.

The other is 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, "But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

 

[Ken-1122]

Drich0150 (quote) “God is one entity. Or if you rather God is the title of one being. This being has 3 aspects or three separate natures. The first has the role of a Father, in that He creates, He governs, and He maintains sovereign authority. The Next is the Son. He (like any Jewish son in OT time) had the role of enacting the will of the Father, with the Same authority as the Father. If the Father is the Master Architect, the Son is The General contractor. The Holy Spirit is different in that we do not have a parallel role that accurately portrays what He does. Basically this aspect of God is a liaison between the basic believer and the other two aspects of God. He empowers, defends, protects.”

(reply) Is this kinda like myself? I’ve got too many aspects/natures to list; a son to my mom, an employee to my boss, an athlete to the people at the gym, a musician to some, an atheist to you guys etc. the only difference God gives himself different names for each of his natures where as I allow myself to be known as Ken the employee, Ken the musician, Ken the atheist, etc. is that an accurate description? If so, explain how they are separate?

(quote) “Also to your last question here are nearly 5 pages of references of the Holy Spirit enacting the role of God.http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/...searchtype=all”

(reply) Perhaps you can read it and brief me on what it says.
Next when I asked: (quote) "Also, which scripture in the Bible actually says the Holy Spirit is God?

"John Jay said (quote) “Peter says (and I'm paraphrasing here) "what in the world posessed you to lie to the Holy Spirit? Don't you know that by doing that, you haven't just lied to men, but lied to God?"[/font]”

(reply) Since God and Jesus are both Holy, and they are both spirits; (The human part of Jesus died on the Cross) do you suppose the Holy Spirit could be just another name for any spirit that is holy? Meaning God or Jesus?

Solorwave (quote) “The trinity is different ways God reveals Himself. Jesus was fully human but also so connected to God and mind so at one with God that can be called God in human form. So Jesus is what God would be if He were human.”

(reply) But Jesus is no longer human! The physical part of him died on the cross; all that is left is his spirit; so how is Jesus different than God if they are both spirits?

(quote) “The Holy Spirit is harder to understand since most people don't have much knowledge of what 'spirit' actually means. So I'll just say that the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God in the Universe by His actions in time.”

(reply) Could it be possible that the Holy Spirit is just another name for God since God is a spirit, and he is holy?

Razontherock (quote) “Trinity is throughout Scripture:
Isaiah 33:22 "For the LORD [is] our judge, the LORD [is] our lawgiver, the LORD [is] our king; he will save us." (That's Old Testament, in case you didn't know)
Also more OT, which is also confirmed in the NT:
Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;"”

(reply) Do you suppose this could be in reference to God the Father who is also a Holy Spirit?

Ken

 

[razeontherock]

Razontherock (quote) “Trinity is throughout Scripture:
Isaiah 33:22 "For the LORD [is] our judge, the LORD [is] our lawgiver, the LORD [is] our king; he will save us." (That's Old Testament, in case you didn't know)
Also more OT, which is also confirmed in the NT:
Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;"”

(reply) Do you suppose this could be in reference to God the Father who is also a Holy Spirit?

G-d is ONE. We cannot grasp His essence, because of His largeness; therefore, any concept He is able to translate to us will be partial at best. It is perfectly fitting for Him to clue us in to one part or another ...

 

[drich0150]

Is this kinda like myself? I’ve got too many aspects/natures to list; a son to my mom, an employee to my boss, an athlete to the people at the gym, a musician to some, an atheist to you guys etc. the only difference God gives himself different names for each of his natures where as I allow myself to be known as Ken the employee, Ken the musician, Ken the atheist, etc. is that an accurate description? If so, explain how they are separate?

As a son you yeild and respect the wishes of your Father. If you had a traditional Jewish up bringing you would also be your father's right Hand. You would be the person who carried out the wishes of your Father.

As a father your role now changes from what it was when you were your father's son to being a father yourself. Now you are the one in the position that allows you to be the decision maker and overseer of your house hold.

You are still the same person, but your role is different.

God is not bound by time as we know it, so there is absolutely no reason He is limited to playing out one role at a time.

(reply) Perhaps you can read it and brief me on what it says.

I did. You asked where the bible says the Holy Spirit was God? and I showed you 20 listings per page x5 pages of reference material where the bible points to the holy Spirit being God.

what other response can I possibly give to the question that you asked?

If you are looking for a different response then ask a different question.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

If the Father is the Master Architect, the Son is The General contractor. The Holy Spirit is different in that we do not have a parallel role that accurately portrays what He does. Basically this aspect of God is a liaison between the basic believer and the other two aspects of God. He empowers, defends, protects.

i suppose with your analogy, the third part of the equation "The Holy Spirit" is probably the customer relations person in the company!

 

[drich0150]

i suppose with your analogy, the third part of the equation "The Holy Spirit" is probably the customer relations person in the company!

The Customer relations, the blue prints, The building material, the mortar holds everything together. "He" is everything "tangible" we have of God in this life.

 

[John Jay]

Since God and Jesus are both Holy, and they are both spirits

I disagree that Jesus is a spirit. He became a man, was resurrected, and is now in a glorified body.

do you suppose the Holy Spirit could be just another name for any spirit that is holy? Meaning God or Jesus?

No. The Bible says they are all three different persons.

 

[Ken-1122]

Drich0150 (quote) “As a son you yeild and respect the wishes of your Father. If you had a traditional Jewish up bringing you would also be your father's right Hand. You would be the person who carried out the wishes of your Father.
As a father your role now changes from what it was when you were your father's son to being a father yourself. Now you are the one in the position that allows you to be the decision maker and overseer of your house hold.
You are still the same person, but your role is different.
God is not bound by time as we know it, so there is absolutely no reason He is limited to playing out one role at a time”

(reply) Actually most of my roles don’t change; I am still a son to my parents, an employee to my employer, a brother to some, friend to others, etc. I just have different roles for different people, and even though I am bound by time as we know it, I still play all my roles at the same time.

(quote) “You asked where the bible says the Holy Spirit was God? and I showed you 20 listings per page x5 pages of reference material where the bible points to the holy Spirit being God.
what other response can I possibly give to the question that you asked?
If you are looking for a different response then ask a different question.”

(reply)Even though I didn’t look at all 5 pages; of all that I did look at, I couldn’t find any that suggested that the Holy Spirit is separate from God the father, but still God himself. Maybe you can find one that does and point it out to me.

John Jay (quote) “I disagree that Jesus is a spirit. He became a man, was resurrected, and is now in a glorified body.”

(reply) So do you suppose Jesus has a spirit in this glorified body of his?

(quote) “The Bible says they are all three different persons.”

(reply) How can the three be separate people without Christianity being a monotheistic religion?

Ken

 

[drich0150]

(reply) Actually most of my roles don’t change; I am still a son to my parents, an employee to my employer, a brother to some, friend to others, etc. I just have different roles for different people, and even though I am bound by time as we know it, I still play all my roles at the same time.

Then you are an exception to my analogy, disregard my comparisons I have made in your life. Use my life or any other man who has been in the role of a son and now is in the role of a Father, and the comparison will still stand.

(reply)Even though I didn’t look at all 5 pages; of all that I did look at, I could’t find any that suggested that the Holy Spirit is separate from God the father, but still God himself. Maybe you can find one that does and point it out to me.

I do not believe the separation you are looking for exists. God the holy Spirit is not a separate deity. The Father Son and Spirit are one God. The fact that they, or the roles of God have been segregated into these three parts, points to the fact that God has three unique and separate aspects to His nature.
John Jay (quote) “I disagree that Jesus is a spirit. He became a man, was resurrected, and is now in a glorified body.”

 

[Ken-1122]

I do not believe the separation you are looking for exists. God the holy Spirit is not a separate deity. The Father Son and Spirit are one God. The fact that they, or the roles of God have been segregated into these three parts, points to the fact that God has three unique and separate aspects to His nature.
John Jay (quote) “I disagree that Jesus is a spirit. He became a man, was resurrected, and is now in a glorified body.”

(reply) So let me see if I've got this straight. The trinity does not consist of 3 separate people, only one person; and that one person is God who has 3 separate aspects/natures/duties and to each of his aspects christians have attached a nickname. They call him the Father when they refer to God governing and maintaining sovereign authority, they call him Jesus when he plays the role of enacting his will, and they call him the Holy Spirit when he empowers, defends and protects.
Did I get it right?

Ken

 

[John Jay]

So do you suppose Jesus has a spirit in this glorified body of his?

Yes, but having a spirit is different than being a spirit.

How can the three be separate people without Christianity being a monotheistic religion?

Christianity is a monotheistic religion.

 

[drich0150]

So let me see if I've got this straight. The trinity does not consist of 3 separate people, only one person;

Actually no God does not consist of any people.

and that one person is God who has 3 separate aspects/natures/duties and to each of his aspects Christians have attached a nickname. They call him the Father when they refer to God governing and maintaining sovereign authority, they call him Jesus when he plays the role of enacting his will, and they call him the Holy Spirit when he empowers, defends and protects.
Did I get it right?

More or less.
One God or deity. Three separate or individual parts.

 

[John Jay]

Actually no God does not consist of any people.

Yes it does: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[drich0150]

Yes it does: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Again no.
Those deity are not people.

People being defined by dictionary.com:

peo·ple

   http://app.dictionary.com/signup/po...lbackAction=addToFav&domaindest=reference.com/ˈpi

pəl/ Show Spelled [pee-puh

l] Show IPA noun, plural -ples for 4, verb, -pled, -pling.
–noun 1. persons indefinitely or collectively; persons in general: to find it easy to talk to people; what will people think?

2. persons, whether men, women, or children, considered as numerable individuals forming a group: Twenty people volunteered to help.

3. human beings, as distinguished from animals or other beings.

The Defining qualities of the Father Son and Spirit do not fall under any of these defining qualities of "people."