Problems understanding the Trinity

[Catherineanne]

Catherianne (quote) “You are trying to make God fit your understanding, and you can't do it, because your understanding is too small.”

(reply) But the guys who came up with the concept of the trinity understood it; obviously it isn’t humanly impossible to understand

If you ever understand God, then you can rest assured you do not even begin to do so. This is as true for you and me as it is for those who first realised the truth of the Trinity.

(quote) “When a plural term is used of God, this does not always denote several gods, any more than a plural term of a monarch means more than one monarch.”

(reply) But each person of the monarch is only a fraction of the monarch. Would you say this applies to the Gods of the trinity as well?

Each person of the monarchy is a single monarch. I think you miss the point, therefore.

(quote) “God is eternal; outside time. He is omnipresent and omnipotent. He is infinite and beyond our understanding. In order to enter eternity, and become one with us, he had to put on something of what it is to be in creation; he had to put on form and substance. He did that when he became man.”

(reply) Doesn’t really explain the trinity but I’ve always wondered about people claiming God exists outside of time; as if time had parameters; that it starts here and ends there and God is somehow able to be outside of it. Maybe I will start another thread and on that issue.

See my first point above. The Trinity is not there to be understood; it is there to be accepted. You don't have to understand how gravity works to accept that it does.

(quote) “Twins do not share substance, essence, attributes or nature. All they share is genetic coding.”

(reply) I realize they usually don’t (but it is possible that they could) But if I had a twin and he did have the same nature as I, would you consider us the same person? Of course not! Just because a person has the same nature does not in any way make them the same person, God, being, etc.
My point being, if you wish to make a point that Jesus, God the father, and the holy spirit are the same, pointing out they have the same nature does not make your point.

Being similar to someone is not the same as sharing their nature. I think you are far too loose with your terminology, and also rather prone to re-working definitions and then challenging your version, rather than the accepted version.

Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are not the same; I have already explained the distinctions. They are three persons who comprise the Godhead; One God.

 

[ChristIsMyVindication]

Someone else has probably posted something like this already (although I couldn't be bothered reading every single post in the thread to find out) but just in case they haven't, or just in case it's too difficult to sift through the pages to find it: http://www.dtl.org/trinity/images/picture/trinity.jpg
See?

 

[Ken-1122]

Catherainne (quote) “If you ever understand God, then you can rest assured you do not even begin to do so. This is as true for you and me as it is for those who first realised the truth of the Trinity”

(reply) So is this another way of saying you (trying to explain the trinity) and those guys who came up with it (explanation of God) don’t really know what you are talking about? If so, that would definitely explain a lot.

(quote) “Each person of the monarchy is a single monarch. I think you miss the point, therefore.”

(reply) Okay; so each monarch is only a fraction of the monarchy. Better?

(quote) “The Trinity is not there to be understood; it is there to be accepted.”

(reply) The truth should always be up for question. ALWAYS!

(quote) “”You don't have to understand how gravity works to accept that it does.

(reply) What little bit I know about gravity makes sense to me. Thus far, nothing about your explanation of the trinity does

(quote) “Being similar to someone is not the same as sharing their nature. I think you are far too loose with your terminology, and also rather prone to re-working definitions and then challenging your version, rather than the accepted version.”

(reply) That still does not change the fact that having the same nature does not make you the same person, God, or whatever! As I said earlier; You can have the same nature as another person whom you have never met before; that would not make you the same! My point stands.

(quote) “Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are not the same; I have already explained the distinctions. They are three persons who comprise the Godhead; One God.”

(reply) Oh so now we have a Godhead now? What’s the difference between a God and a Godhead?

K

 

[Catherineanne]

Catherainne (quote) “If you ever understand God, then you can rest assured you do not even begin to do so. This is as true for you and me as it is for those who first realised the truth of the Trinity”

(reply) So is this another way of saying you (trying to explain the trinity) and those guys who came up with it (explanation of God) don’t really know what you are talking about? If so, that would definitely explain a lot.

Well, it is certainly likely that one of us doesn't know what he is talking about, but I suspect it may not be me.

In talking about the ineffable, there will always be a shortcoming. We will never be able to constrain or define God in words, because he is infinite and our words are very, very fallible. Therefore, it cannot be done.

This is not evidence that God himself is limited, only that our understanding, and our capacity to elucidate that understanding, is.

Again, if you ever get to understand God, then your understanding will inevitably be inadequate.

(quote) “Each person of the monarchy is a single monarch. I think you miss the point, therefore.”

(reply) Okay; so each monarch is only a fraction of the monarchy. Better?

Fraction is a weird word to use, but if you want to use it, then fine. This is where the Godhead differs, of course, because the Monarch changes, the Godhead doesn't. The point was simply that a plural pronoun can denote a singular God, that was all.

(quote) “The Trinity is not there to be understood; it is there to be accepted.”

(reply) The truth should always be up for question. ALWAYS!

Did I say otherwise? How do you get from me talking about the Trinity to an implication about the truth, exactly?

Here it is again: The concept/theory/law of Gravity is true. It is not understood; it is accepted as true.

(quote) “”You don't have to understand how gravity works to accept that it does.

(reply) What little bit I know about gravity makes sense to me. Thus far, nothing about your explanation of the trinity does

So to you, truth equates to what makes sense to you? That explains a lot.

Good luck with that one.

(quote) “Being similar to someone is not the same as sharing their nature. I think you are far too loose with your terminology, and also rather prone to re-working definitions and then challenging your version, rather than the accepted version.”

(reply) That still does not change the fact that having the same nature does not make you the same person, God, or whatever! As I said earlier; You can have the same nature as another person whom you have never met before; that would not make you the same! My point stands.

No. Being similar natured is NOT equivalent to being of the same nature. Again, you lack clarity of thought on this.

(quote) “Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are not the same; I have already explained the distinctions. They are three persons who comprise the Godhead; One God.”

(reply) Oh so now we have a Godhead now? What’s the difference between a God and a Godhead?

K

The Godhead is the term used for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Three persons in one God. Trinity is a term to denote that there are three persons within the Godhead.

 

[Ken-1122]

Catherieanne (quote) "Well, it is certainly likely that one of us doesn't know what he is talking about, but I suspect it may not be me......Again, if you ever get to understand God, then your understanding will inevitably be inadequate."

(reply) But I'm not the one in this conversation who claims to understand the trinity; That would be you.

(quote) “The point was simply that a plural pronoun can denote a singular God, that was all.”

(reply) Not in the English language though. I realize the bible was interpreted in English from another language; maybe a different word than God should be used to describe Yahweh because God is singular not plural

(quote) “How do you get from me talking about the Trinity to an implication about the truth, exactly? Here it is again: The concept/theory/law of Gravity is true. It is not understood; it is accepted as true.”

(reply) If there is any truth behind the claim of the Trinity, it should always be up for question, and one should not settle for believing without an attempt to understand it.
As far as gravity, there is much we do understand, and much we don’t. What we do understand has been proven to be true.

(quote) “So to you, truth equates to what makes sense to you? That explains a lot”

(reply) Sort of; before I go around proclaiming something to be true, it has to make sense to me.

(quote) “No. Being similar natured is NOT equivalent to being of the same nature. Again, you lack clarity of thought on this.”

(reply) Who said anything about being SIMULAR natured? I didn’t! It seems too many people are misquoting me then responding to their misquote; that’s why I like to click and paste the actual words a person says to prevent these types of mistakes from happening

(quote) “The Godhead is the term used for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Three persons in one God. Trinity is a term to denote that there are three persons within the Godhead.

(reply) It seems you are using the noun “God” as a title, or position, rather than a singular being. If that’s the case, then what you are saying makes sense. Is that your position? Or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken

 

[Johnnz]

The Trinity is not the easiest concept to get our heads around. It took four centuries for the church to formulate its understanding of the Scriptures.

To better understand the doctrine of the Trinity you will need to read a good exposition of the doctrine which presents the biblical passages that trinitarian theology is based on. It is a fundamental teaching for Christians and impacts upon all our major doctrines.

John
NZ

 

[purnhart]

The way I understand the trinity, and how we were created in his image is this. We all have a body, a soul and a spirit. God the Father is the soul, God the Son is the body, and the Holy Spirit is the spirit. Now, I don't know if that is the way God understands the trinity or not, but that is how I understand it.

 

[Ken-1122]

The way I understand the trinity, and how we were created in his image is this. We all have a body, a soul and a spirit. God the Father is the soul, God the Son is the body, and the Holy Spirit is the spirit. Now, I don't know if that is the way God understands the trinity or not, but that is how I understand it.

So is it your position that each member of the trinity is only a fraction of God just as the soul, the spirit, and the body are each only a fraction of a complete human being?

K

 

[Johnnz]

So is it your position that each member of the trinity is only a fraction of God just as the soul, the spirit, and the body are each only a fraction of a complete human being?K

We do not have any direct analogy for the Trinity, just as we don't for God's timelessness, or immensity.

John
NZ

 

[cajunhillbilly]

We do not have any direct analogy for the Trinity, just as we don't for God's timelessness, or immensity.

John
NZ

exactly. How can a unipersonal being understand or comprehend a tripersonal being. We can't. We accept it a true because Scripture teaches it and it was clarified for us in the Creeds of the early church.

 

[purnhart]

So is it your position that each member of the trinity is only a fraction of God just as the soul, the spirit, and the body are each only a fraction of a complete human being?

K

Not really. Somehow He is three separate but one being. I will wait and let God explain it to me when I get to heaven.

1 Cor. 13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.