problems from my church

[jameshjr]

If you continue to talk to that guy, ask him about jesus's statement that he is the only way to God in John 3: 16 and also ask him about the following couple of verses which talk about those who do not believe being already condemned.

re lgbt etc ask the vicar just how are they going to celebrate it? based on his reply you can decide whether to not go to those services or to consider changing churches.

green issues, is the latestest fad and not relevent to evangelism, go with the flow on this.

Hey there John, i appreciate the message. Amen to that, i wish i would have thought of that at the time.

i do lack courage to stand up to or confront people, and tend to capitualte if people disagree with me (in person at least, especially to a vicar whom knows more about scripture than me). i will have to pray for courage over this.

 

[jameshjr]

What changes, exactly?

eco- church is a scheme where you have to meet certain criteria and then if you do they will give you their acrreditation. im not sure exactly but it will be along the lines of, insulating the building, recycling a certain percentage of paper and stuff.

heres a link about it

https://ecochurch.arocha.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Eco-Church-Survey-v2-January-2018.pdf

 

[jameshjr]

@jameshjr False Churches. False Pastors. And they are everywhere. So no, it's not Just the Anglicans.

I am in and out of church because the churches I encounter are not real churches. They are false. They do not resemble Biblical churches. They claim to be but are exposed as frauds by their operations and belief systems. And my personal litmus test is if the Pastor gives a pass on sin and the congregation does not exhort each other to holiness. Reason is I don't see anything to be gained by going to these places that call themself churches that do not preach against sin and help each other to walk closer with God. I can at pray Home, I can study the Bible at home and the lords supper I can acknowledge Christs death and Resurrection at home. Also there is the real danger of their sins influencing you. Like demanding the sworn enemies of the Gospel the LGBT into the church and then you have to accept they are co-members. God knows nothing of it but the false churches have been overrun by unsaved people long ago and their policies are from Hell.

Church isn't all about what you can take from them but if you are determined to walk with God in obedience, you can't help the false churches or they're people who let unrepentant sinners as members and even marry them. This is so offensive to a Holy God.....How can they not fear being struck dead. People who claimed to be dedicated to Gods ministry have been killed by God for apparent well meaning acts. Like Uzzah trying to steady the Ark of the covenant and God just blasted him for disobedience and killed him. Korah and the 250 rebels thought Moses was shouldering too much work as leader and were swallowed up into the ground for challenging Gods ordained leader. Punishment for their disobedience. The false churches are the same: Claim to be dedicated to Gods ministry but are actually sworn enemies and seeking to destroy the instituted church.

So better to separate from the people who willfully shake their fist at God in rebellion lest you get struck down with them. Just my view.

Hello All glory to God thank you for the message.

I appreciate that there are varying degress of faith and obedience to scripture in christians in the world, but i do think that we should all belong to a physical church and would encourage you to keep trying to find one that you can belong to.

The examples that you gave over Gods immediate and severe (though just) punishment to people whom broke His law are from the Old testament. remember that Jesus came along and changed things.

and remember that once God starts a good work in someone He sees it through to completion so i think it is wise to be patient and have faith in God and His timing.

 

[jameshjr]

By all means...look for another Church....it doesn't have to be a BIG ONE..."Where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I among them."

Hello the narrow way. God bless you, i think it will come down to this.

 

[jameshjr]

Muslims and Christian don't worship the same God.

God does not lie (Num 23:19, Tit 1:2, Heb 6:18). He isn't going to tell one group kill everyone who doesn't believe like you do while telling Christians love everybody.

Amen, sister.

He has been attending the church longer than me and i guess i caved into his 'seniority' and i do tend to avoid conflict. i wonder if it is something i should ignore or if i should 'argue' over.

 

[ChristServant]

Hello all, its been a while, i hope that you are well.

At my church there is a man whom i have gotten close to. I was out walking with him the other day and we got around to talking about God and i asked him if he believed that Jesus is the son of God and he replied that he thought He was "of the spirit". He then went on to say, basically, that if Jesus were the son of God then muslims would be wrong and that would be mean i.e. we all worship the same God. he also rejected pauls writing as having any authority, as he got kicked by a horse and went stupid.

Additionally, my church (it is a church of England church) announced that it is LGBTetc.etc.etc.etc.etc. week or month next month and that we are going to be 'celebrating it', which i have a problem with. i mean as a christian i dont see how you can view homosexuality as anything other than (at best) a delusion. of course i do not want to exclude them from coming to church and view them with compassion, but to not say it is a sin and why it is a sin is irresponsible.

Finally, though there are other things i have noticed, my church is completely in line with the green agenda and wants to become an 'eco-church'. regardless of whether global warming etc is correct or not, are we not supposed to be apart from the culture, so why then is my church getting involved in this when we could be spending that time, money and energy on reaching out to other people.

I guess i wanted to get these things off my chest. let me know if you guys have similar experiences to this and what your opinion is.

God bless,

James.

P.s. is this a C of E problem, or just a church problem. ought i to look for another church?

It sounds as if your church is more concerned with getting numbers through the door rather than following the word of GOD.

I am looking for a church that follows the word of GOD but it's becoming more and more difficult.

Personally I will not entertain blatant disregard of the word of GOD and would find somewhere else to fellowship. How can any Christian fellowship with someone who practices sin intentionally, offends GOD the Father with no regard and considers the Lord Jesus Christ's sacrifice as a passport for an intentional sin filled life.

Many churches and a high percentage of people attending them, from what I see, love the world and their lives within it. They seem to think they can live as the world, for the world and GOD at the same time, poisonous teachings and doctrines.

I think a time is coming where Christians will be doing more and more smaller meetings at homes. I can't see any other way unless people are willing to accept anything, even blatantly against GOD's will.

I have thought for quite sometime that love described in scripture will be manipulated and used to bring ungodliness in the midst of mainstream Christianity and even use it to lead a new religion that is anti GOD, that will eventually give rise to the antichrist. This is from my view coming to pass, slowly but surely.

Peace be to all those in the Body of Christ.

 

[Sketcher]

eco- church is a scheme where you have to meet certain criteria and then if you do they will give you their acrreditation. im not sure exactly but it will be along the lines of, insulating the building, recycling a certain percentage of paper and stuff.

heres a link about it

https://ecochurch.arocha.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Eco-Church-Survey-v2-January-2018.pdf

Thank you. I'm not familiar with the organizations that they want to have teach, and most of the certifications and regulations they are citing seem to be local to the UK, not global. Some of that stuff seems a little out there for a church to prioritize at this time, but I'm estimating that a church could get a bronze award without getting too crazy. Silver isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Frequently Asked Questions

What are the points thresholds for awards?

The point thresholds are 25% of points for bronze, 50% for silver and 75% for gold

 

[PloverWing]

to be fair i need to speak to my vicar about this (though i lack courage) and find out exactly what his views are, but i do worry that a lot of this due to the cowardice that is rife throughout the c of e as they are unwilling, in my eyes, to stand up for the gospel for fear of mainstream criticism and an even greater reduction in church attendance. a problem , i am sure which would be reversed if they were to stand up for the gospel.

I haven't met your vicar, so I can't say what his beliefs are or what motivates them. With that said: I think it might be worthwhile for you to meet with your vicar, and talk about what his beliefs are, and why. You may find that he's not motivated by cowardice, but rather that he holds his beliefs genuinely, as an expression of the gospel as he understands it.

After the conversation, you may still disagree with him. Christians do disagree with each other about lots of things. But I often find that my respect for someone increases if I discover that the other person has good reasons for their beliefs and that they're really trying to uphold goodness and truth as they see it, even if I disagree with the other person's conclusions.

 

[jameshjr]

Thank you. I'm not familiar with the organizations that they want to have teach, and most of the certifications and regulations they are citing seem to be local to the UK, not global. Some of that stuff seems a little out there for a church to prioritize at this time, but I'm estimating that a church could get a bronze award without getting too crazy. Silver isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Frequently Asked Questions

From my perspective though, i wonder what the point is. as has been suggested we could litter pick once a month or every other month and it would be better and we would have a prescense in the community to speak to people. I think with 'green' stuff you have to start from the individual what 'i' can do and then move 'up' from there.

as i said, it seems a misuse of time energy and money (as i am certtain they will chage for the proivelidge- why else would the threshhold be so low!)

 

[jameshjr]

It sounds as if your church is more concerned with getting numbers through the door rather than following the word of GOD.

I am looking for a church that follows the word of GOD but it's becoming more and more difficult.

Personally I will not entertain blatant disregard of the word of GOD and would find somewhere else to fellowship. How can any Christian fellowship with someone who practices sin intentionally, offends GOD the Father with no regard and considers the Lord Jesus Christ's sacrifice as a passport for an intentional sin filled life.

Many churches and a high percentage of people attending them, from what I see, love the world and their lives within it. They seem to think they can live as the world, for the world and GOD at the same time, poisonous teachings and doctrines.

I think a time is coming where Christians will be doing more and more smaller meetings at homes. I can't see any other way unless people are willing to accept anything, even blatantly against GOD's will.

I have thought for quite sometime that love described in scripture will be manipulated and used to bring ungodliness in the midst of mainstream Christianity and even use it to lead a new religion that is anti GOD, that will eventually give rise to the antichrist. This is from my view coming to pass, slowly but surely.

Peace be to all those in the Body of Christ.

Hello there Christ servant, thank you for the message. we are all sinners and disobey God, but there is a gay couple whom have been attending the church since i have been there (two years) and no one has said anything to them about it or mentioned it to them. that to me is irresponsible, and is a red flag to me.

I agree with your points about people loving the world whilst loving God. however, we did have a sermon about the body of christ on sunday and i wonder if it is a natural order for some people to be more obewdient of Gods word than others. for example: i a read my bible (wityh exceptions) every day and am reading it more and more as time passes. now i would not be even slightly suprised that many of the people at my church read it once or month or even at all.

Now i am not going to say that this is evidence that they are unsaved or anything like that. and like i say some body parts have more glory than others and some of us in heaven will have more glory than others and i wonder to what degree this differing levels in faith is intentional.

I also wonder if people whom are called to be more 'in' the word of God, by the fact of them being in the word of God and that itself being evidence that they should take more of a leadership role or speak up more on issues at their church and with other more worldly christians.

I have also heard a lot recently about sin and how over time there will be more and more sin and therefore this in itself could explain the seemingly ever increasing insanity and wickedness in the world, which, of course, will penetrate the church (as it is, at the moment, in the world). we are after all always moving towards the end time ( though i am not saying it is soon)

 

[jameshjr]

I haven't met your vicar, so I can't say what his beliefs are or what motivates them. With that said: I think it might be worthwhile for you to meet with your vicar, and talk about what his beliefs are, and why. You may find that he's not motivated by cowardice, but rather that he holds his beliefs genuinely, as an expression of the gospel as he understands it.

After the conversation, you may still disagree with him. Christians do disagree with each other about lots of things. But I often find that my respect for someone increases if I discover that the other person has good reasons for their beliefs and that they're really trying to uphold goodness and truth as they see it, even if I disagree with the other person's conclusions.

Hey there plover wing, thank you for the message. i apologise if there is any confusion, but i meant that i am a coward and not the vicar (though he probably is to some degree as we all are).

meeting him is a good idea, but im worried oiver the consequences.

 

[seeking.IAM]

...On the LGBT etc etc etc issues, i appreciate that we all have planks in our own eye. but are we not also told that we should confront people in our church whom are flagrantly sinning
...

If that is how you see your role as part of the Body and is how you want to spend your time, will you give equal time to going after the liars, the gluttons, the fornicators, the divorced/remarried, those who lust, the greedy, the envious, the slothful, the proud, the bearers of false witness, and the angry? I suspect you will be quite busy and tired, to say nothing of being unpopular. The Church is full of sinners. I'd just like to spend my time in church worshipping.

 

[All Glory To God]

The examples that you gave over Gods immediate and severe (though just) punishment to people whom broke His law are from the Old testament. remember that Jesus came along and changed things.

Dear James, this is an advice thread so I do not desire to argue or cause strife but I simply must protest at this notion you made about the old testament.

I do agree we should all be in church but the problem is how do we define what a church is exactly? Would you worship in the Roman church? Would you worship in a Reformed church? Would you worship in a church that does not believe people need to repent in order to be saved? Absolutely we should assemble together but what someone deems a church, another person may deem apostate.

As for the Old Testament, you do believe this is the same God right? Here's an example of the nature of God old and new being the same. Judas met a bloody death after he betrayed our lord and savior. Apparently no Grace but only justice for him. And what do you think Christ will do to his enemies when he returns? And why does the Apostle Paul ground his epistles into the old testament scriptures if they are no longer relevant? I think the answer to these is God does not change but can will change. This does not mean his people are no longer under a covenant of obedience.


I hope you get this situation sorted out. I know finding a Biblical church is like trying to find a haystack needle but all the best in your searches.

 

[jameshjr]

I think a time is coming where Christians will be doing more and more smaller meetings at homes. I can't see any other way unless people are willing to accept anything, even blatantly against GOD's will.

On this point, i have wondered about this and i think you are right. church numbers are down, and they will have to close buildings, leading more people in fewer buildings. if that continuers eventually the church will shrink back down to how it was in the early days of the church. hopefully with less persecution but i dont see how that could happen.

 

[Sketcher]

From my perspective though, i wonder what the point is. as has been suggested we could litter pick once a month or every other month and it would be better and we would have a prescense in the community to speak to people. I think with 'green' stuff you have to start from the individual what 'i' can do and then move 'up' from there.

as i said, it seems a misuse of time energy and money (as i am certtain they will chage for the proivelidge- why else would the threshhold be so low!)

I think for that we should look first at "what can we as a church do ourselves" and from that, the membership can see, "I can do this, this isn't so bad." Insulation saves money because fewer resources are going to heating the building. Recycling whenever possible and prudent is good to do as long as the bins aren't contaminated with trash (sadly, they often are). If people are sharing rides from their neighborhoods to church, that is neighborly as well as cutting down on emissions. If you are ensuring that cleaning chemicals are properly disposed of, that is being responsible. If bike racks are placed in front of the church, then people without cars have better access to attend, since their bikes can be secured. And so forth. I don't think that some of the measures are right for every church, but I think many churches can and should do better.

 

[jameshjr]

If that is how you see your role as part of the Body and is how you want to spend your time, will you give equal time to going after the liars, the gluttons, the fornicators, the divorced/remarried, those who lust, the greedy, the envious, the slothful, the proud, the bearers of false witness, and the angry? I suspect you will be quite busy and tired, to say nothing of being unpopular. The Church is full of sinners. I'd just like to spend my time in church worshipping.

i didnt say it was my role to say something, but is it not the vicars responsibility to address it in some way? is it not the churches responsibility to make a stand on this point according to what the gospel says?

is all sin of equal value? is gluttony the same as adultery (which is what homosecuality is and why it is a sin).

additionally, it is not worshipping God to rebuke people who boldly sin against Him?

also consider 1 timothy 5:20:
Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.

 

[jameshjr]

Dear James, this is an advice thread so I do not desire to argue or cause strife but I simply must protest at this notion you made about the old testament.

I do agree we should all be in church but the problem is how do we define what a church is exactly? Would you worship in the Roman church? Would you worship in a Reformed church? Would you worship in a church that does not believe people need to repent in order to be saved? Absolutely we should assemble together but what someone deems a church, another person may deem apostate.

As for the Old Testament, you do believe this is the same God right? Here's an example of the nature of God old and new being the same. Judas met a bloody death after he betrayed our lord and savior. Apparently no Grace but only justice for him. And what do you think Christ will do to his enemies when he returns? And why does the Apostle Paul ground his epistles into the old testament scriptures if they are no longer relevant? I think the answer to these is God does not change but can will change. This does not mean his people are no longer under a covenant of obedience.


I hope you get this situation sorted out. I know finding a Biblical church is like trying to find a haystack needle but all the best in your searches.

Hello, neither do i wish to cause strife, i was trying to encourage you to keep looking for a chuch.

I was trying to point out that God perfecting his elect takes time and that, though some issues are deal breakers, with others i think we can bear and be patient with.

i would never say that the old testament is irrelevent and i know that God does not change. Only you chose examples of Gods justice on people and not on his mercy of which there are many. Paul himself was a great sinner before he was redeemed.

 

[ChristServant]

Hello there Christ servant, thank you for the message. we are all sinners and disobey God, but there is a gay couple whom have been attending the church since i have been there (two years) and no one has said anything to them about it or mentioned it to them. that to me is irresponsible, and is a red flag to me.

I agree with your points about people loving the world whilst loving God. however, we did have a sermon about the body of christ on sunday and i wonder if it is a natural order for some people to be more obewdient of Gods word than others. for example: i a read my bible (wityh exceptions) every day and am reading it more and more as time passes. now i would not be even slightly suprised that many of the people at my church read it once or month or even at all.

Now i am not going to say that this is evidence that they are unsaved or anything like that. and like i say some body parts have more glory than others and some of us in heaven will have more glory than others and i wonder to what degree this differing levels in faith is intentional.

I also wonder if people whom are called to be more 'in' the word of God, by the fact of them being in the word of God and that itself being evidence that they should take more of a leadership role or speak up more on issues at their church and with other more worldly christians.

I have also heard a lot recently about sin and how over time there will be more and more sin and therefore this in itself could explain the seemingly ever increasing insanity and wickedness in the world, which, of course, will penetrate the church (as it is, at the moment, in the world). we are after all always moving towards the end time ( though i am not saying it is soon)

Yes, we are all sinners who fall short of the glory of GOD.

I would have to say there is a difference I think, between falling into sin, a moment of madness if you like and wilfully sinning and having the intention to do so whenever you like. Leaders should speak up if followers are wilfully sinning as this may lead others into sin if it becomes an accepted behaviour.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

An interesting passage above. Another passage below.

1 Corinthians 1-15
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord

What are your thoughts on these passages, as Christians we are to not tolerate wilful sin in the congregation as it may corrupt it.

Peace be to all those in the Body of Christ.

 

[jameshjr]

I think for that we should look first at "what can we as a church do ourselves" and from that, the membership can see, "I can do this, this isn't so bad." Insulation saves money because fewer resources are going to heating the building. Recycling whenever possible and prudent is good to do as long as the bins aren't contaminated with trash (sadly, they often are). If people are sharing rides from their neighborhoods to church, that is neighborly as well as cutting down on emissions. If you are ensuring that cleaning chemicals are properly disposed of, that is being responsible. If bike racks are placed in front of the church, then people without cars have better access to attend, since their bikes can be secured. And so forth. I don't think that some of the measures are right for every church, but I think many churches can and should do better.

Im not sure how much i agree with you on the church cha nging encouraging others to change, at least in meaningful, lasting ways and i wonder how much guilt would be the motivater in changing people.

i also think the green issue is more of a political issue than a gospel issue for example: not all scientists agree that the climate emergency is a real thing; even if it were, GB contributes 1% of carbon emmisions in the world; therefore would it not be better to put pressure on countries like China to change. additionally we can insulate the church more (it was made in 1250) but where do you stop?

 

[seeking.IAM]

is it not the vicars responsibility to address it in some way? is it not the churches responsibility to make a stand on this point according to what the gospel says?.

Yes, it is. And, once the Vicar gets rid of all of those sinners there will be plenty of good pews among which to choose. I'm betting your Vicar has a lot about the Gospel every Sunday, but maybe emphasizes a different part than you prefer?

is all sin of equal value? is gluttony the same as adultery (which is what homosecuality is and why it is a sin).
.

I confess there are some things that offend me more than others, but I suspect sin is pretty much all the same to God. There are those who would disagree with me.

additionally, it is not worshipping God to rebuke people who boldly sin against Him?.

That is a far cry from what I think of as worshipping.

At any rate, I think you are pretty well set in how you see things and what you want, so I'm unsure you really need anything from an advice forum. Your convictions are so strong, I think you are unlikely to be content until you follow them. Maybe that church isn't for you, but why don't you have a chat with your Vicar before leaving?