problems from my church

[jameshjr]

Hello all, its been a while, i hope that you are well.

At my church there is a man whom i have gotten close to. I was out walking with him the other day and we got around to talking about God and i asked him if he believed that Jesus is the son of God and he replied that he thought He was "of the spirit". He then went on to say, basically, that if Jesus were the son of God then muslims would be wrong and that would be mean i.e. we all worship the same God. he also rejected pauls writing as having any authority, as he got kicked by a horse and went stupid.

Additionally, my church (it is a church of England church) announced that it is LGBTetc.etc.etc.etc.etc. week or month next month and that we are going to be 'celebrating it', which i have a problem with. i mean as a christian i dont see how you can view homosexuality as anything other than (at best) a delusion. of course i do not want to exclude them from coming to church and view them with compassion, but to not say it is a sin and why it is a sin is irresponsible.

Finally, though there are other things i have noticed, my church is completely in line with the green agenda and wants to become an 'eco-church'. regardless of whether global warming etc is correct or not, are we not supposed to be apart from the culture, so why then is my church getting involved in this when we could be spending that time, money and energy on reaching out to other people.

I guess i wanted to get these things off my chest. let me know if you guys have similar experiences to this and what your opinion is.

God bless,

James.

P.s. is this a C of E problem, or just a church problem. ought i to look for another church?

 

[seeking.IAM]

Here are my thoughts on the three concerns you raise.

The fellow in your church. It would be nice if everyone we went to church with was like-minded, but I have never found that to be true in any church I've attended. There is always apt to be someone in the congregation whose ideas are a little bit too out of the mainstream for us. Here in the United States we have a Lutheran pastor who was fond of welcoming visitors by saying, "We are the church and we will disappoint you." I've always rather liked that statement as a reminder that we are a bunch of different people bound to make mistakes, and sometimes it takes some grace to cope with the person next to us in the pew.

LBGTQ stuff This is an issue that is affecting many kinds of churches right now. You only have to see all the threads here on CF to see that. I've never gone to a church where I agreed with everything. I have come to look at things like this from the perspective of asking how important of an issue is this to me? I believe all of us have things we feel so strongly about that they become the thing that stops us from joining particular church bodies. I have my own "stoppers" too, but this one didn't rise to the top of my list, which allowed me to worship in the U.S. expression of the Anglican Communion. I'm an old straight guy who thinks I ought to be more worried about old straight guy sins. I think you should discern how important this issue is to you - and is it more important than whatever good things you are getting from your church?

Green Stuff I'm mostly okay with green until taken to extreme. I think we should be good stewards of God's wonderful creation to do our best to pass this earth on to those who come after us. The extreme for me is when a church gives as much or more emphasis on "green" than it does on Jesus. If they want us to drop things in the recycle bin or use less paper in the church, all well and good. If I hear more from the pulpit about being green than about Jesus - well that's not why I go to church.

Best wishes in sorting it out.

 

[angelsaroundme]

If your church goes around and picks up trash, I would find that very commendable. If it's something else like dictating what cars people use then I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

 

[William J]

Homosexuality is definitely a hot-button issue for Christians today. If you have a firm belief that homosexual practice is sinful and your church seems to believe the opposite, that may definitely lead to some conflict. As Christians, we can and should have fellowship with other Christians we disagree with, but I think you might be better off in a church that has similar views about LGBT issues. If there is a church that is nearby that has more similar beliefs to your own, I think there would be merit in checking it out.

 

[Paidiske]

@seeking.IAM has given you good answers.

The only thing I would add is that the C of E, like all members of the global Anglican communion, would recognise five "marks of mission," which are a statement of what our purpose should be as a church. They are:

"The mission of the Church is the mission of Christ

1. To proclaim the Good News of the Kingdom
2. To teach, baptise and nurture new believers
3. To respond to human need by loving service
4. To transform unjust structures of society, to challenge violence of every kind and pursue peace and reconciliation
5. To strive to safeguard the integrity of creation, and sustain and renew the life of the earth."

You will note that point five sets out the safeguarding and sustaining of the environment, not as an optional extra, but as an integral aspect of the mission of the Church, and for that reason, Anglican churches do (or should) take environmental matters very seriously. It's not an externally dictated cultural matter, but a part of what we see as required from us in Scripture.

 

[lismore]

H
P.s. is this a C of E problem, or just a church problem. ought i to look for another church?

Hello James. I would suggest if you are feeling uneasy with some of your church's doctrines and practices to pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will lead you to another church, if so he will show you which one.

As the bible says in Psalm 23, the Lord is our shepherd, he leads us to the green pastures. And as it says in Psalm 34, I called to the Lord and he answered me. God Bless

 

[Albion]

P.s. is this a C of E problem, or just a church problem. ought i to look for another church?

Hello, James.

It's far from being a British problem or a Church of England problem.

There are several Anglican split-off denominations in England, and I wonder if any of them are available to you. But I really have no additional knowledge of their stances on such things as Green whatever or even the LGBT issues. I can guess that they're all more conservative than what you described, but I don't want to answer you with a guess..

 

[Sketcher]

At my church there is a man whom i have gotten close to. I was out walking with him the other day and we got around to talking about God and i asked him if he believed that Jesus is the son of God and he replied that he thought He was "of the spirit". He then went on to say, basically, that if Jesus were the son of God then muslims would be wrong and that would be mean i.e. we all worship the same God. he also rejected pauls writing as having any authority, as he got kicked by a horse and went stupid.

That's a problem for him. If he's strongly set in those ways, pray for God to soften his heart so he can accept his word.

Additionally, my church (it is a church of England church) announced that it is LGBTetc.etc.etc.etc.etc. week or month next month and that we are going to be 'celebrating it', which i have a problem with. i mean as a christian i dont see how you can view homosexuality as anything other than (at best) a delusion. of course i do not want to exclude them from coming to church and view them with compassion, but to not say it is a sin and why it is a sin is irresponsible.

I agree, this is a problem. This to me is grounds for finding a new church.

Finally, though there are other things i have noticed, my church is completely in line with the green agenda and wants to become an 'eco-church'. regardless of whether global warming etc is correct or not, are we not supposed to be apart from the culture, so why then is my church getting involved in this when we could be spending that time, money and energy on reaching out to other people.

I don't have a problem with the green stuff, especially if the church is also reaching out to other people.

 

[Tolworth John]

what your opinion is.

If you continue to talk to that guy, ask him about jesus's statement that he is the only way to God in John 3: 16 and also ask him about the following couple of verses which talk about those who do not believe being already condemned.

re lgbt etc ask the vicar just how are they going to celebrate it? based on his reply you can decide whether to not go to those services or to consider changing churches.

green issues, is the latestest fad and not relevent to evangelism, go with the flow on this.

 

[All Glory To God]

@jameshjr False Churches. False Pastors. And they are everywhere. So no, it's not Just the Anglicans.

I am in and out of church because the churches I encounter are not real churches. They are false. They do not resemble Biblical churches. They claim to be but are exposed as frauds by their operations and belief systems. And my personal litmus test is if the Pastor gives a pass on sin and the congregation does not exhort each other to holiness. Reason is I don't see anything to be gained by going to these places that call themself churches that do not preach against sin and help each other to walk closer with God. I can at pray Home, I can study the Bible at home and the lords supper I can acknowledge Christs death and Resurrection at home. Also there is the real danger of their sins influencing you. Like demanding the sworn enemies of the Gospel the LGBT into the church and then you have to accept they are co-members. God knows nothing of it but the false churches have been overrun by unsaved people long ago and their policies are from Hell.

Church isn't all about what you can take from them but if you are determined to walk with God in obedience, you can't help the false churches or they're people who let unrepentant sinners as members and even marry them. This is so offensive to a Holy God.....How can they not fear being struck dead. People who claimed to be dedicated to Gods ministry have been killed by God for apparent well meaning acts. Like Uzzah trying to steady the Ark of the covenant and God just blasted him for disobedience and killed him. Korah and the 250 rebels thought Moses was shouldering too much work as leader and were swallowed up into the ground for challenging Gods ordained leader. Punishment for their disobedience. The false churches are the same: Claim to be dedicated to Gods ministry but are actually sworn enemies and seeking to destroy the instituted church.

So better to separate from the people who willfully shake their fist at God in rebellion lest you get struck down with them. Just my view.

 

[The Narrow Way]

By all means...look for another Church....it doesn't have to be a BIG ONE..."Where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I among them."

 

[tturt]

Muslims and Christian don't worship the same God.

God does not lie (Num 23:19, Tit 1:2, Heb 6:18). He isn't going to tell one group kill everyone who doesn't believe like you do while telling Christians love everybody.

 

[jameshjr]

Here are my thoughts on the three concerns you raise.

The fellow in your church. It would be nice if everyone we went to church with was like-minded, but I have never found that to be true in any church I've attended. There is always apt to be someone in the congregation whose ideas are a little bit too out of the mainstream for us. Here in the United States we have a Lutheran pastor who was fond of welcoming visitors by saying, "We are the church and we will disappoint you." I've always rather liked that statement as a reminder that we are a bunch of different people bound to make mistakes, and sometimes it takes some grace to cope with the person next to us in the pew.

Best wishes in sorting it out.

Hello there Seeking I Am. thank you for the message. I appreciate that there will be all different types of people at the church. i suppose i was wondering if not beleiveiong Jesus to be the son of God and rejecting portions of the bible were evidence of not having the holy spirit, but then again, who am i to judge or know this. However it does worry me as this person is someone i have looked up to and is someone high up in my chiurch and one of whose goals is to have all religions worshipping in church.

On the LGBT etc etc etc issues, i appreciate that we all have planks in our own eye. but are we not also told that we should confront people in our church whom are flagrantly sinning (as homosexuality undeniably is, unless someone can convince me with scruipute otherwise). to be fair i need to speak to my vicar about this (though i lack courage) and find out exactly what his views are, but i do worry that a lot of this due to the cowardice that is rife throughout the c of e as they are unwilling, in my eyes, to stand up for the gospel for fear of mainstream criticism and an even greater reduction in church attendance. a problem , i am sure which would be reversed if they were to stand up for the gospel.

In fact a columnist that i respect (peter Hitchens) has a line that the chief qualification to be archbishop of canterbury nowadays is that you do not believe in God(or words to that effect).

and finally on the second point, remember Jesus's words of fury at the disobedient churches in Revelations, are we to beleive that He would be any happier now with people jumping upon bandwagons that roll over the teachings He left us on the way to hell?

Lastly, i have great suspicions about the C of E and i am almost certain that the focus on eco stuff is actually an attempt to win people over to the church by looking progressive. Additionaly, i think that more focus on bringing people to Christ would in turn transform them and their behaviour which would include being less wateful.

 

[jameshjr]

If your church goes around and picks up trash, I would find that very commendable. If it's something else like dictating what cars people use then I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

Hello there angels around me, thanks for the message. i agree completely.

 

[jameshjr]

Homosexuality is definitely a hot-button issue for Christians today. If you have a firm belief that homosexual practice is sinful and your church seems to believe the opposite, that may definitely lead to some conflict. As Christians, we can and should have fellowship with other Christians we disagree with, but I think you might be better off in a church that has similar views about LGBT issues. If there is a church that is nearby that has more similar beliefs to your own, I think there would be merit in checking it out.

Hello William J. It is definitly my beleif that it is sinful and i do not see how you can come to any other interpretation from reading the bible (though i am happy to listen to any argument against this). thank you for the advice. i have decided that i will attend at least one of the services about LGBT and hear my vicars point of view and base my next move upon what he says.

 

[jameshjr]

@seeking.IAM has given you good answers.

The only thing I would add is that the C of E, like all members of the global Anglican communion, would recognise five "marks of mission," which are a statement of what our purpose should be as a church. They are:

"The mission of the Church is the mission of Christ

1. To proclaim the Good News of the Kingdom
2. To teach, baptise and nurture new believers
3. To respond to human need by loving service
4. To transform unjust structures of society, to challenge violence of every kind and pursue peace and reconciliation
5. To strive to safeguard the integrity of creation, and sustain and renew the life of the earth."

You will note that point five sets out the safeguarding and sustaining of the environment, not as an optional extra, but as an integral aspect of the mission of the Church, and for that reason, Anglican churches do (or should) take environmental matters very seriously. It's not an externally dictated cultural matter, but a part of what we see as required from us in Scripture.

Hello Paidiske, thank you for the message, and i appreciate a message from a minister about these messages.

I have been attending church for two years now and i chose this church as i went to the c of e school that was next to it and it seemed like the logical place to go.

However, as i grow in my faith i am beginning to see the differences in beleifs over the gospel and the reasons for their being different churches.

Admittedly, i have never looked up the anglican marks of mission. i would argue that they are listed in order of importance (one being highest) and unfortunatly from what i see from the C of E is that it focuses on five and four most and one the least.

on point four it sounds exceptionally post modern and i wonder when it, and point five were added to the mission.

 

[jameshjr]

Hello James. I would suggest if you are feeling uneasy with some of your church's doctrines and practices to pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will lead you to another church, if so he will show you which one.

As the bible says in Psalm 23, the Lord is our shepherd, he leads us to the green pastures. And as it says in Psalm 34, I called to the Lord and he answered me. God Bless

Hello Lismore, thanks for the message. Thank you, I will pray over this.

 

[jameshjr]

Hello, James.

It's far from being a British problem or a Church of England problem.

There are several Anglican split-off denominations in England, and I wonder if any of them are available to you. But I really have no additional knowledge of their stances on such things as Green whatever or even the LGBT issues. I can guess that they're all more conservative than what you described, but I don't want to answer you with a guess..

Hey there Albion, thank you for the message. I am very much thinking about looking into other churches, though i do have loyalty to the people their. the c of e, is very liberal and my church is to.

 

[jameshjr]

That's a problem for him. If he's strongly set in those ways, pray for God to soften his heart so he can accept his word.


I agree, this is a problem. This to me is grounds for finding a new church.


I don't have a problem with the green stuff, especially if the church is also reaching out to other people.

Hey there Sketcher, thank you for the message. on your first point, will pray for him on this point.

On your response to my second point, i am going to see exactly what he says and base my leaving on that decision.

As angels around me said in their message, if they were ot suggest, goin got pick up litter around the town, then i would be there with them and would be recruiting people i know. if they suggested looking into ways to protect green belt land in our districty, i would support that; however, they are looking into making changes to get some sort of certicficate so they can hang a plaque and tell everyone that we are a green church. it seems all show and no trousers to me.

 

[Sketcher]

As angels around me said in their message, if they were ot suggest, goin got pick up litter around the town, then i would be there with them and would be recruiting people i know. if they suggested looking into ways to protect green belt land in our districty, i would support that; however, they are looking into making changes to get some sort of certicficate so they can hang a plaque and tell everyone that we are a green church. it seems all show and no trousers to me.

What changes, exactly?