private businesses and masks ( little diffrent take)

[pitabread]

What is hard about understanding the risks? People may not want to ACCEPT them once they happen, but it is not hard for me to conclude certain risks that go with certain behaviors.

There are all sorts of psychological biases that impact people's ability to assess things like risk, odds, etc. People are just generally bad at those sorts of things.

 

[FireDragon76]

What about say 12 or 15 feet no mask?

I would wear a mask anyways, because you can never be sure you won't have to temporarily get closer to somebody.

Chances are in many states, it's going to be required at all times in public, and church services will probably be suspended by executive order (something the Supreme Court has recently upheld as constitutional).

Most responsible religious organizations are closing regular services. My S.O.'s Lutheran denomination has encouraged the congregations to socially distance, so her church only meets on the internet. For a while they were doing drive-in services only, with no personal contact.

 

[FireDragon76]

There are all sorts of psychological biases that impact people's ability to assess things like risk, odds, etc. People are just generally bad at those sorts of things.

That's why gambling is such a big thing, even an addiction for some, even though from a statistical perspective it's a waste of money. People are prone to magical thinking and irrational justifications.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I would wear a mask anyways, because you can never be sure you won't have to temporarily get closer to somebody.

Chances are in many states, it's going to be required at all times in public, and church services will probably be suspended by executive order (something the Supreme Court has recently upheld as constitutional).

Most responsible religious organizations are closing regular services. My S.O.'s Lutheran denomination has encouraged the congregations to socially distance, so her church only meets on the internet. For a while they were doing drive-in services only, with no personal contact.

Our church offers three options for those who are not comfortable.

 

[FireDragon76]

Our churches offers three options for those who are not comfortable.

Yeah well, if you live in an area of increasing COVID-19 cases, it's simply not responsible for the religious organization not to at least move the services outdoors or online.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yeah well, if you live in an area of increasing COVID-19 cases, it's simply not responsible for the religious organization not to at least move the services outdoors or online.

We have in person ( in a social distened building on the radio ( in the church parking lot) and then online ( a week behind, so for example this Sunday's message will be posted on 7-12-20 while last Sunday's message will be posted on this coming Sunday.

 

[FireDragon76]

Abusive Karens can embarrass themselves I guess.

The other is a worst-case scenario, there are definitely some crazy people out there even running around with guns threatening lawmakers to open businesses earlier than they should. Those people should be arrested on the grounds that the lawmaker feels threatened with serious bodily injury or even death. It works for the police even when someone doesn't have a weapon and wasn't breaking any law.

People are incredibly mimetic. If an influential leader wears a mask and encourages others to do so, then it's easier to enforce the law. But the trouble is, we have a president in the US that's a flaming narcissist that thinks masks make him look weak and limited by inconveniences, like "science".

That's why it's important for religious organizations to engage in social distancing and mask wearing, because they are another important institution in our society and have influence over people for setting norms of behavior.

 

[RDKirk]

In fairness, maybe it's not such a great thing to defund the police? How else are we going to get everyone to wear masks? the honor system didn't work out so well here in Florida.

Yeah, I'm a liberal... but I'm also a liberal that appreciates law and order, and not having bodies stack up for our supposed "freedoms".

Is there an intersection between states where people won't wear masks and states that have defunded police?

 

[RDKirk]

People need to understand that medical workers under such circumstances have eventually gotten huge viral loads even with N95 masks, that's why healthcare workers often get such severe infections despite being young and healthy.

I'd point out that those medical workers are 100% guaranteed contact with covid-19 infectious people, whereas a lay person going out each day probably won't be within several feet of an infected person more than once a day, if any. Persons in jobs that require constant public contact are somewhat more at risk.

But medical personnel are a worst-case scenario.

 

[FireDragon76]

Is there an intersection between states where people won't wear masks and states that have defunded police?

Probably not, but I am seeing polarization in attitudes among young people and I don't think that's healthy or realistic. There seems to be a dichotomy between moral influence and state power that simply isn't realistic.

 

[eclipsenow]

It would be hard to prove that a particular person killed anyone. Moreover, jail is not really a good option because 1 it is hard to social distance in jails ( especially in booking. Why they released so many people at the start of this and number two that would be an awful lot of money to spend on a non-violent offense housing those. As to fines, in America you can contest those in court ( meaning that you would end up with a lot of people in and out of the court houses ( if people chose to contest it) Since there are people who do not wear masks for medical reasons HIPPA could get in the way there too. Anyone could claim a medical reason and the government is not allowed to asks why. Other thing with enforcement of something like this is that it falls on the local government to enforce and you would have some sheriffs and police officers that would refuse to enforce something like that. Some states are trying fines, but it is not that simple as forcing people to pay a fine,

You're carrying the virus and then your parents or grandparents die - people who were doing the right thing and staying home. Not so hard to figure that one out hey?
Oh, and Australia added massive fines and jail terms and we have:-

• contained it so far in most states - NSW has had about 1 new case every second day so far and tens of thousands of tests per day.
• no active cases in jail that I know of
• generally speaking have the community on board.
• our police enforce the life-saving-restriction laws just fine, thank you.

We have a crisis growing in Victoria - 77 new cases per day - and they're locking down those suburbs again. The police will do their thing, the majority will follow the laws, there are some paranoid conspiracy believers that are refusing to get tested and the society is debating what to do about them. At the moment, we're mostly mocking their silly paranoid beliefs. See how this works?

 

[RDKirk]

Probably not, but I am seeing polarization in attitudes among young people and I don't think that's healthy or realistic. There seems to be a dichotomy between moral influence and state power that simply isn't realistic.

There is definitely a nihilistic spirit in the Z-generation.

 

[Hank77]

Nevermind redundent.

 

[FireDragon76]

There is definitely a nihilistic spirit in the Z-generation.

Indeed, some are calling them "Doomers". It's not a coincidence that sales of closed-back headphones and earphones keep going up and up- that is the quintessential accessory of the Doomer lifestyle.

 

[Hank77]

Probably not, but I am seeing polarization in attitudes among young people and I don't think that's healthy or realistic. There seems to be a dichotomy between moral influence and state power that simply isn't realistic.

If every single business wouldn't allow people without masks to shop it would stop a lot of this nonsense immediately.
You want groceries, put on a mask. You want your latte, put on a mask, et.

 

[FireDragon76]

If every single business wouldn't allow people without masks to shop it would stop a lot of this nonsense immediately.
You want groceries, put on a mask. You want your latte, put on a mask, et.

The problem is, in the US there's not enough bullet proof glass to make that sort of thing feasible.

Personally, I think American culture has misjudged the relationship of individual freedom vs. collective responsibility, and we are reaping the whirlwind.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You're carrying the virus and then your parents or grandparents die - people who were doing the right thing and staying home. Not so hard to figure that one out hey?
Oh, and Australia added massive fines and jail terms and we have:-

• contained it so far in most states - NSW has had about 1 new case every second day so far and tens of thousands of tests per day.
• no active cases in jail that I know of
• generally speaking have the community on board.
• our police enforce the life-saving-restriction laws just fine, thank you.

We have a crisis growing in Victoria - 77 new cases per day - and they're locking down those suburbs again. The police will do their thing, the majority will follow the laws, there are some paranoid conspiracy believers that are refusing to get tested and the society is debating what to do about them. At the moment, we're mostly mocking their silly paranoid beliefs. See how this works?

but it would be hard to show that a particular person caught the virus from another particular person ( unless they were actually living in the same house. Take for example my grandparents. It is my mom and two elder brothers. BOTH of her brothers have to go out one runs a feed hard ware store ( deemed a business that needed to be open even when we were shut down. Her other brother works on the farm ( they have farmed for years and he has to go and get parts and the like sometimes, as well as get treatment for his own medical issues. We all see them regularly as we all could walk to their house ( not to say that we go over there every day and talk for hours. Mother also has done their shopping during all of this. Grandfather even though he is 84 still farms as well while not like he once did and probably gets some parts sometimes as well. This is along with going to various doctors. Say one of them got it and God forbid died ( even though we do not go to crowded places that is a still quite a few people ( by the way the brother who is on the farm his wife works at the bank, so she is around the community a good bit. You can see from this example that even though my grandparents have been out very little and none of their children/grandchildren are out with tons and tons of people it would still ( if God forbid one of them died be awfully hard to tell who gave them the virus and where THAT person got it from

 

[Desk trauma]

a failure? As long as people understand the risks what failed about it?

It's not about what becomes of the people refusing to protect them selves, I am indifferent when they fall ill due to their own stupidity, but rather the people they infect.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It's not about what becomes of the people refusing to protect them selves, I am indifferent when they fall ill due to their own stupidity, but rather the people they infect.

but what I do not understand is if someone is wearing a mask would that not help protect hem ( even if the other party is not. From the pictures I have seen no masks=a certain likelihood of infection one mas= a certainly likelihood of infection and when BOTH parties are wearing a mask the percentage is even lower. I would therefore think that even if you were wearing a mask that may not protect you as well as if both of us were wearing a mask, but it would offer some protection.

 

[Desk trauma]

but what I do not understand is if someone is wearing a mask would that not help protect hem ( even if the other party is not. From the pictures I have seen no masks=a certain likelihood of infection one mas= a certainly likelihood of infection and when BOTH parties are wearing a mask the percentage is even lower. I would therefore think that even if you were wearing a mask that may not protect you as well as if both of us were wearing a mask, but it would offer some protection.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.