pretty much no hope

[smith1]

Hi Raven, I tried to find you a Christian psychiatrist and failed as you know, but I did find something else that may help you just as much. In Richmond, there's a place call The Center of Integrative Medicine. They may be able to help you. Their phone number is 804-353-9355. They are at 4700 Thalbro St. in Richmond.

 

[raven1]

Thanks

 

[raven1]

Thanks also anonymous user. I don't have false doubt though(OCD) doubt where you know you believe deep down. I truly truly do not know if God is real. Fundamentalists say you cannot have doubt and be saved.

 

[steve_bakr]

Raven1, I hope you follow through and get help--and stop listening to fundamentalists.

God bless you.

 

[raven1]

They could be absolutely right though. Anonymous I do pray to God etc. even though I think he might not be there. Mostly I freak out about no afterlife how can I just trust God when I am scared nothing is there. I can't pretend not to be afraid a.k.a trust God.

 

[HopingForJesus]

Hugs and prayers for you Raven. Hang in there. God bless.

 

[Anonymous User_]

Raven,

There is definitely room for doubt in faith! In fact, I don't think faith would exist without room for doubt - otherwise faith would be KNOWING, and not a choice we choose to make. I've had so many people who are disbelievers in Christ that are a lot smarter than I am say things that sound as though rejecting them would be lunacy. The logic of the World can sound so often like truth, and the Truth a bunch of nonsense that somebody made up. But the thing is, there IS so much evidence about God's existence and the reality of Jesus being the Christ. I've been frantic enough in my doubts to read what's felt like everything from A to Z on proof of the Bible's reality and God's existence, and I'm sure there are six billion other pieces of evidence that I've yet to discover. But this is the thing: I STILL doubt! And tremendously, often! I second guess every fact I've found, every piece of logic that studies have put out. Why? Because my OCD brain relentlessly forces me to do this. Sometimes Jesus seems like something the people at Disney made up. Sometimes He seems like the best and most brilliant explanation for life there is. Regardless of how I feel, I continue to choose to believe in Him. And you must do the same. You are currently running just to catch yourself, Raven, listening to the logic of your brain. You are tangling a knot so big that no one will be able to undo. You can't listen to the logic of your OCD right now! Want to know something interesting? If you were an atheistic fundamentalist with OCD, you would be TERRIFIED that your fundamentalist beliefs weren't true, and logic would point to Jesus being real, no matter how hard you tried to disprove Him! Fundamentalism wouldn't make a speck of sense to you! An OCD brain always tries to believe the thing the sufferer fears most. You MUST face everything that is screaming at you from the inside and use the wondrous will, the ability to choose, that God has placed in the soul of every human being. You must CHOOSE to turn from your thoughts doubting God and Christ. Christ's sacrifice is our only way to Heaven. Hold on to this truth, The Truth of all truths. Will your doubts go away? Of course not!! They might come even harder. But CHOOSE to trust Him. I can give you little other advice. Know that my own heart still aches from the same burden you carry and that you're not alone. God has not given you something you can't handle.
If you want to get better, you really MUST find a Christian counselor and a good psychiatrist! Don't try to go through this all by yourself! And please, please, PLEASE read what I suggested to you earlier! Many of my words come from what I've learned from these great writers. Don't give up, Raven. I know it probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I'm praying for you!

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Hello raven, I am on my iPod right now so I can't really respond in detail like I want to. I am living proof that you can get through this. My thoughts were so bad that I wanted to end it all, but God had other plans for me. I still have to fight through the thoughts at times but I'm much better than before. I truely believe that these are partial OCD thoughts as I also wanted to be sure 100 percent of his existence.

Believe me, I was there and no matter how much others would reassure me I would still get the thoughts pounding and pounding 24 hours a day. I finally got on meds and saw a therapist at the local health and human services and had a wonderful catholic therapist who helped. Whatever you do, do not give up. Your faith right now is much stronger than most people because your still praying even though you are going through this terrible ordeal. The thing that makes OCD OCD is that it tricks us into not knowng whether it is OCD or our own thoughts. Please let me know if you have yahoo messenger
Praying for you my friend

 

[Christian-Catholic]

I couldn't have put it any better anonymous
Your wisdom is awesome

 

[raven1]

Thank you guys. I am confused about one thing anonymous. User you say you doubt. Gods existence but I should trust God???? Also OCD doubt is no different than regular doubt you just get stuck more
What does it mean if you still doubt after your anxiety dies dowm that would be a bad sign for me
You don't really seem to doubt at all AU and if you do but have no anxiety aren't you scared you are just a doubter no ocd involved
And also how do I trust God when I am scared there is no afterlife
I can't stifle that fear that is what got me doubting in the first place. I have these mean feelings like yeah right God doesn't exist. The hardest thing is how he made something from nothing. The only reason I still cling is people have had near death experiences but I am also skeptical so the doubt never stops. So I don't feel saved because I don't even like to read the bible anymore because I feel I don't stop doubting when I read it and it is boring and that scares me even though before when I didn't doubt I thought it was boring. I read apologetics all the time and I still doubt and doubt and doubt. It is not enough evidence for me but God says we are without excuse. You guys never think faith is a gift some are not choosen for. Au you are not the only one that said I might always doubt. when I had pedophilia OCD I researched twenty four seven I feel like if I don't read apologetics waiting for the ah ha he exists moment I am not trying but why read when for a year and a half no apologetics help.

 

[dabro]

It's going to be ok. I promise. God deals with us in a different manner and prizes us much more then them who have faith to move mnts.

 

[Anonymous User_]

Dear Raven,
I PROMISE I still doubt. I still cry and feel near hopeless desperation sometimes. And I definitely have OCD, I can guarantee you. Nearly every day I spend time in stress agonizing over my salvation, wondering if I believe the 'right way'. Scary thoughts and ideas about God not being real still enter my head. I once spent eight full hours weeping in my room, trying to untangle a knot of doubts and fears. I have been officially diagnosed by a psychiatrist and am being treated with medicine. But I am passing on to you strategies I have learned from those wiser than I, from Christian psychiatrists and other mentors who have helped me. I am in no way beyond my disorder. You can trust me when I say I know what you're going through. I still feel like screaming and throwing my hands up in desperation when I try to seek reassurance from others, but they don't seem to fully understand what I am asking or what kind of answer I am looking to find.

Yes, you should still trust God even though you still doubt. Like I said, faith is NOT an absence of doubt. You must trust that you are not seeing the true picture of God's reality. You are like a fly on the ceiling of Michelangelo's Sistine chapel. You are looking at a tiny piece of a painting and trying to make it out into a picture that makes sense. It's only when you step back and look at the whole painting that you will be able to see the whole picture. This will not happen until we are in Heaven. You just have to trust that there IS a bigger picture that you can't see. Take what evidence you have read from apologetics and such and cling to it, don't second guess it, though that is what your OCD mind will try to make you do. Like I said, if you were an atheist on the other side of the line, you would be obsessively doubting the truth of atheism - atheism wouldn't make any sense to you!

In relation to this, your OCD ALWAYS plays a factor in these kinds of doubts. You are going to have mountains of trouble getting better if you do not realize that these doubts are irrational fears brought on by your OCD. And regardless of where these doubts come from, they are not INTENTIONAL! There is a black and white difference from corroding doubt which a person CHOOSES to think of and CHOOSES to follow and believe and doubt that you can't help but that is called into your mind. YOU are not your MIND. You are YOU. It isn't your FAULT that these doubts are coming into your mind, and you are not being held accountable for their entrance into your thoughts - it's what we choose to do with them. Do we follow them and believe them? Or do we refuse to believe them and continue to follow Christ?

You don't have to feel good about the Bible. You don't have to think it's interesting! Heck, I pretty much never have any warm or fuzzy feelings about God. Sometimes it just hurts listening to other believers sing worship and praise. Who WOULD feel good about God an the Bible after going through what we're going through? It feels like we're being battled, challenged, and refuted all the time! It almost feels like God doesn't WANT us in Heaven or for us to be joyful and stress-free. Of course you won't enjoy the Bible right now in your life! But these are just FEELINGS. Raven, you are beating yourself up any time you try to judge your status of belief or salvation based on how you feel or what your mind is telling you. You're trying to turn a game of hopscotch into chess. And I KNOW how this feels! I broke down and wept like a baby yesterday because I felt like my understanding of salvation was keeping me from being saved. I know those lonely trains of logic that you go down that no one else can follow. I know what it feels like to have those mental blocks that you just can't ever philosophize your way out of. I'm not surprised at all nor angry that you keep questioning the things I write here, because that's what I do with other people's reassurance that they give me! There is some WAY of answering the questions in your mind that I'm not accomplishing - your tired self hungers for the reassurance compulsions that will ease your obsessions. But I can't explain away every doubt you have. You want to know about that ah-ha moment? I promise you something - IT DOES NOT EXIST AND IT NEVER WILL as long as you have OCD. One time I had SO many facts about God's existence and Jesus' truth lined up that I felt completely convinced that it all was real! The very next day? I had forgotten half of what I read and was second-guessing the other half of what I did remember. That is not the way out, Raven. Release this burden of quenching your thirst for being convinced. For as long as you have OCD, it will never come. I can guarantee it. You just have to CHOOSE to believe God and Jesus, knowing that there are answers to your unanswered questions, that God is a God of sense, not nonsense. There is a bigger painting that you are unable to see. Stop trying to frantically decide what it looks like by analyzing a few blobs of paint that you can see. Trusting God doesn't mean that it feels like or seems like He's real. You just have to say, "Jesus, I'll just take Your word for it that this is all real."

Have you bought the books yet? PLEASE give yourself an excuse to go down to Barnes & Noble and enjoy a cappuccino from Starbucks and BUY THOSE BOOKS. If you have to drive an hour to get to one, please find a counselor and psychiatrist!

 

[raven1]

A bought one for my kindle how do I trust and fear about no afterlife at the same time. Do u worry about no afterlife? I feel the only reason I have any faith if thats what you would call it is because of the possibility of hell. See you have faith you trust their is a bigger picture I doubt there is one because I can't know for certain. How can you believe in heaven if you doubt? You can choose to choose God but aren't you just stifling the doubt in your head while your heart still doubts. You also said you now your doubts are irrational that is OCD. I don't know mine are because I really doubt meaning I can't know 100 percent God exists so it is not an irrational fear. See I am not an OCD doubter.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

A bought one for my kindle how do I trust and fear about no afterlife at the same time. Do u worry about no afterlife? I feel the only reason I have any faith if thats what you would call it is because of the possibility of hell. See you have faith you trust their is a bigger picture I doubt there is one because I can't know for certain. How can you believe in heaven if you doubt? You can choose to choose God but aren't you just stifling the doubt in your head while your heart still doubts. You also said you now your doubts are irrational that is OCD. I don't know mine are because I really doubt meaning I can't know 100 percent God exists so it is not an irrational fear. See I am not an OCD doubter.

Raven, the fact that you cant get 100% proof tells me that could be OCD. There are very few christians that Have 100% faith,but most wont say it. Faith is a fickle thing that goes up and down. Think of it like a muscle, It grows when you put stress on it, but with ocd its overblown to the point of where even a tiny doubt which most christians can just blow off we have a terrible time letting go of it.

As anonymous put it, Make a decision to trust Jesus that all this is real, and please try to check out the search link I sent you to try to get help in your area, OCd is OCD because we cant tell if the thoughts or real or really our own. This is the treachery behind this disorder.


Anonymous understands it perfectly and I think God for him being here to help.

 

[tripletiger1200]

Raven, I can't really give you any good advice because I don't have a lot of hope myself right now, but I can say that God keeps surprising me, and I know He can do the same for you. I'll keep on praying

 

[sk8Joyful]

Sister, there's 3 doubts, 5 can'ts, & more fears in your OP.

If I lived my life like that, I'd be depressed too.

You might try approaching life from CAN , faith , & determination , and
you will find that your world changes, dramatically for the better

The choice is yours!

 

[Anonymous User_]

Raven,

Like I said, trusting something doesn't mean that the fear goes away. Here's a way to look at it: Someone who's afraid of heights might walk out on the completely stable observation deck of a skyscraper and be terrified to death that they will plummit, though they are of sound mind and know that that won't happen. Though their logic is straight, and though they believe that the observation deck is sound, they still experience fear. And now if this was an OCD person with an irrational fear, they might begin to think of how the builders might have slipped up, how every bolt might not have been turned exactly three times, or how an off-course skydiver could shatter the glass. These fears might seem like a complete reality to be wary of to an OCD person, just like your irrational fear of the absence of an afterlife. However, no matter what they THINK or what IDEAS they have or what they are CONVINCED of, if they TRUST beyond all their seeming sense of reason that the observation deck is sound and take that step of faith onto the plexiglass, THAT is true belief. This is what you need to do, Raven. Don't worry about what you think. There is ASTOUNDING evidence of the afterlife. If you really must read on that, try 'The Case for a Creator,' another book by Lee Strobel, or 'Mere Christianity' by C.S. Lewis, though I fear that will only be a temporary compulsion to feed your obsessions. CHOOSE to hold Jesus Christ as Truth. He is our one and only Savior, who came to rescue all humanity. Choose to revere Him as such, call upon Him to save you and turn your back on your fears and doubts. Comfort comes in the promise that Jesus makes that if we call upon Him to save us, we will be in the paradise that He has prepared for us. This will not FEEL like comfort to you. You might feel very little difference once you have made this decision, if you have not already made it, because true faith is not a lack of fear. Until you receive proper medication and cognitive therapy, you will never be free of doubt or fear. But that does not mean that you don't believe or that you're not saved. All you have to do is CHOOSE to make the decision to follow Christ.

Raven, only crazy people have 100 percent proof that God is real. If God didn't allow some of Himself to be hidden from Him, we would have no more choice in choosing to love Him and believe in Him that we do to believe that 2+2=4. We would be like robots. The way that we truly love God is that regardless of how little we are convinced of Him or regardless of how we feel about Him, we choose to follow Him and serve Him and love Him with our actions. THAT is true love. That is why we exist.

I don't quite doubt if there's an afterlife at this stage in my struggle, but I sure used to! Now my doubts are more about the Bible specifically.

Also, my irrational fears didn't seem like irrational fears to me. They seemed perfectly logical. It took others in my life to point out to me that they were irrational. Here's a way to tell: If you've been reading many apologetics with many items of proof of God's existence or the afterlife's existence and yet you still don't feel convinced, your fears are probably irrational. Also, if you explain what you are afraid of to someone, and no matter their answer you are never satisfied, your fears are probably irrational.

I hope this helps! Read, read, read!

 

[raven1]

am never gonna leave God that means I am saved? I am still confused on how to trust if I doubt
I just don't think about no afterlife? I feel more agnostic because I feel we can't know (not irrational) this is why I don't think its ocd. My decision to continue to follow God is based on the fact he might be there I pray to God I HOPE he is there. I made sure my child believes in him in CASE he is there. I can't be saved. Au how long have you doubted? It doesn't make you talk as though you are 100 percent certain God is there. When I had pedophilia OCD anytime I believed for second I wasn't one I analyzed to the point where I don't again.Idont even come close to that ok maybe God is real feeling like with pedophilia Ocd. With that I just came to the conclusion I was one
Now I am 95 percent better with that
I just told myself I did not choose to be. What scares me is maybe faith is God given. I can't without uncertainty know it isn't and I wasn't chosen. Thoughts always pop in atheist maybe smarter and this smirky grin comes in I feel like I have a split personality. I can't be saved. I know people on here that doubt the existence of God and don't fear hell for it or no afterlife. With the afterlife thing they haven't been dead for days so I doubt. What is the point reading apologetics and Nde stuff if I can't believe it. When people say on here God will help me I feel like that is a joke. I don't want to think like this but I really doubt he exists. I can and will continue to hang on to God to avoid hell but I will still have no garuntee I will go to heaven and no rest in the doubts heaven might not exist so now what?

 

[Anonymous User_]

Raven,

Trust is an ACTION. Doubt is a FEELING. Just remember the metaphor I showed you. No matter your overwhelming doubts about the security of the plexiglass observation deck, you step out onto it regardless. THAT is faith. THAT is belief. It doesn't matter what you think or feel or what ideas seem convincing.

And you're right! We CAN'T know 100 percent that God is real! Otherwise we would not have the CHOICE to believe in Him; we would be helpless to know and accept, which produces no devotion, no love to God. It would be like having a computer husband who is programmed to love you and everything you do as opposed to a human one who CHOOSES to love you despite your faults and disagreements. God does not reveal all of Himself to us because He wants us to LOOK for Him and TRUST in His existence. Let me give you an example C.S. Lewis once gave. Let's say you have never been to New York City. Now, there are movies made involving New York City. You are taught about it through the news and what you learn in school. Your friends talk to you about it. You see it on maps. But how do you know 100 percent that it is a real place? What if everybody is pulling your leg? What if the logic in your mind tells you that geographically it would be impossible for such a place to exist? What if you are suffering a schizophrenic delusion or dream about such a place? Now, based on what you have learned from the world around you and sheer common sense, you can be 99 percent sure that New York City exists. But how can you be 100 percent sure that it exists unless you have been there in person? And even then how can you be ABSOLUTELY sure that you're not having some kind of dream or delusion? You will drive yourself mad with this kind of thinking, including about God. You are going to spend your entire life looking for complete reassurance that God is real, and you will NEVER find it.

The phrase 'faith is a gift' is a puzzling one, and I can see why you're struggling with it. Sometimes we read things in the Bible and we think they mean one thing, but often they truly, in context and in cooperation with the central claims of the Bible, really mean something completely different. I know for a fact that anyone who desires to come to God and know Christ as their Lord and Savior will NOT be denied. God does not wish to dangle Christ's gift in front of you and laugh as you perish. That's the opposite of why Jesus came! He came to make it possible for ALL to be saved. God is not keeping you from Heaven. Neither your OCD nor your fears, no matter how logical you believe they are, are keeping you from Christ. There is no barrier. You are the determiner of your destiny: eternity through Christ or not? This is a beauty of God's divine will. You are desperately convinced that this choice has been taken away from you. It hasn't.

As for agnostics, they do have some of the same doubts and fears that you have. But they CHOOSE not to deny their doubts and trust Jesus irregardless.

Sometimes analyzing can get you to a comfortable place. But how many times during your pedophilia OCD did you either come back to the same fear or else another different fear sprouted up? Using your reason to get you to a comfortable spot is yet another form of compulsion. And trust me, I still struggle with reasoning and analyzing. I often find it hard to take my own advice. But that's why this is a STRUGGLE.

I don't know really anything about split personality disorder since I don't know myself to have it and haven't learned anything about it. All I know is that no matter your feelings, mindset, or ideas, your ability to choose is still YOU and YOURS; there is no such thing as a split soul. The brain is an organ, not the essence of a person. You have a choice no matter what.

Trusting doesn't mean that you don't think about there being no afterlife. Like I said, having faith doesn't mean at all that the doubts will stop in any manner or that concepts will become clearer. I still try to sift through and explain away a lot of my doubts because it provides me relief. But this does not mean I am not saved. What you have to trust is that no matter how things appear to be, the conclusion to your doubt or question has an answer that points to God and Christ being real. You may never receive this answer in your lifetime. Maybe with enough evidence and philosophizing you will. Who knows? You just always have to hold on to Jesus, no matter the doubts.

The guarantee you are looking for is a feeling of being convinced. You want it on paper, carved in stone, drawn out, proved in a laboratory, written on a chart. This you will never receive. Honestly, even if you did have them, your OCD would probably cause you either to second-guess them or demand even MORE proof of a guarantee. Here is your guarantee: God has promised us that whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ and calls on Him to be saved will receive eternal life. Trust this, Raven.

Can you elaborate a little on what exactly you don't understand and also comment more specifically on what you think about the things I've said? This will help me understand where you're getting stuck and what I can try to explain better.

God will and is helping you. It's only in His time and His way, and you may not see it yet.

 

[raven1]

Um push to exit. I don't want to go to hell that is y I am freaking Au I guess I just don't get how I can be freaking out about no afterlife and also trust. I mean what would that look like so to speak? Every time I think what if we just end say in my head I choose God? Everyone one on here that doubts claims all kinds of things for the evidence of God there disorder makea them doubt they do not really doubt. I am a real doubtet because I do not know like agnostics. I don't want to be agnostic. If God chooses people to born knowing they wouldn't believe he choose for the person not to be saved. I believe 2012 is going to happen because multiple civalizations have predicts that year but I can't believe in God I only have a year to be saved.