Preterism

[GW]

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um

That was Jesus warning us about people saying he had returned when he hadn't yet! Surely you can see this GW!

Auntie,

That's not what Jesus is doing. He is warning about people who say "THE TIME IS NEAR." (Luke 21:8)

"See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'THE TIME IS NEAR.' Do not go after them (NASB - Luke 21:8)


The apostles said exactly this at the latter part of their ministries. Therefore, the apostles are either the false prophets of Luke 21:8 for saying "THE TIME IS NEAR" or they are Holy Ghost inspired and were correct and we are now living beyond the last days.

God bless,
GW

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Shaggy


GW: This is not a literal hour, The whole point is that NO ONE would know when Jesus would come back, even Jesus said no one would know the hour or the day. The disciples had no idea WHEN He would return.

No one did know the "hour or day" but they were given signs to tell the general time so they could flee Jerusalem before that "hour or day" came uprn them.

Luke 21:20-22
20 "But when you (the apostles) see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

This is an historical fact. Jerusalem was surrounded by armies within one "generation" after Jesus spoke those words, and truly "all things written" must have been fulfilled then or Jesus Lied.

Not knowing the day or hour dosen't mean they would not know the "year, season , month or even week", Just like the pregnant woman does not know the "day or hour" she will give birth, she knows for a fact that about 42 weeks after fertilization, she's gonna have a baby. In fact Jesus uses that very comparison!

All the apostles clearly taught that they were living in the last days.

They were either right, or they were wrong.

I, of course, believe they were right.
P70

 

[Pericles]

Also, just to point out an obvious thing that seems to escape our futurist friends, Christ never said that nobody will EVER know the day and the hour, especially after giving them about 20 signs to watch for as a prelude to His return.

Furthermore, Paul himself told the Thessalonians, when talking about "the day of the Lord" aka the "second coming":

"But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness" (1 Th 5:4-5)

This passage flies in the face of the "rapturist" believers...the day would NOT overtake you like a thief...that's why Christ gave them a bunch of signs to watch for.

 

[Wildfire]

Turn on CNN and watch the news; Jerusalem is nearly surrounded by armies now. Historical fact or not, we are going to witness the Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet.
We are that generation. These things will happen to us.
Just look around you and realize what is really happening. Don't close your eyes; don't be the one who is "asleep" like we were warned.
Watch.

Wildfire

 

[Kelier]

Exactly Wildfire, I truly believe it won't be long! All we have to do is keep our eyes on Israel to see that!

Preterists:
If Jesus already came, why was it not documented? Surely something that the Bible says every eye shall see would be documented.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by Kelier
Preterists:
If Jesus already came, why was it not documented? Surely something that the Bible says every eye shall see would be documented.

Kelier,

Apparently, the preterist would have us believe the early church just missed it, as they never wrote about it. Funny, a lot of things were written about Jesus' birth, death, resurrection, and ascension, but absolutely NOTHING was recorded to DOCUMENT the 2nd Coming when it supposedly occurred. I guess they just wanted to keep it a secret.

 

[armothe]

Originally posted by Wildfire
We are that generation. These things will happen to us.
Just look around you and realize what is really happening. Don't close your eyes; don't be the one who is "asleep" like we were warned.
Watch.
Wildfire

Wildfire,

Can I check back with you 50 years, when you are still expecting this to happen in your lifetime?

-A

Oh, just for the record: Jerusalem has been surrounded by armies a few other times in the past 2000 years (Crusades). But never to the magnitude the Romans seiged it in 66-70.

 

[kern]

Originally posted by Wildfire
Turn on CNN and watch the news; Jerusalem is nearly surrounded by armies now. Historical fact or not, we are going to witness the Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet.
We are that generation. These things will happen to us.
Just look around you and realize what is really happening. Don't close your eyes; don't be the one who is "asleep" like we were warned.
Watch.

Wildfire

Every generation since the Apostles has found numerous indications and signs that they were the Last Generation. There's nothing new or special about now. Look at how many times people have predicted the end of the world, and how many times they have been wrong. I've seen both 2010 and 2020 on this Forum, we'll see about that.

-Chris

 

[Kelier]

I disagree Kern, especially considering Israel and it would appear that the time of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is approaching.

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Wildfire
Turn on CNN and watch the news; Jerusalem is nearly surrounded by armies now. Historical fact or not, we are going to witness the Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet.
We are that generation. These things will happen to us.
Just look around you and realize what is really happening. Don't close your eyes; don't be the one who is "asleep" like we were warned.
Watch.

Wildfire

1. Jerusalem was surrounded by armies many times since Jesus made that statement. Read your history...

2. The Desolation spoken by Daniel already happened in AD 70 when the victorious roman armies entered the jewish temple and offered sacrifices to their gods and to the Caesar according to their traditions

3. Every generation after AD 70 made the same claim and they said they are THAT generation...what makes you think you are right this time? 2,000 years ago, Christ said "THIS GENERATION"...not THAT GENERATION. It's a simple matter of grammar and history.

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um


Kelier,

Apparently, the preterist would have us believe the early church just missed it, as they never wrote about it. Funny, a lot of things were written about Jesus' birth, death, resurrection, and ascension, but absolutely NOTHING was recorded to DOCUMENT the 2nd Coming when it supposedly occurred. I guess they just wanted to keep it a secret.

Just as I thought, brother preterist won't touch this one.

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um


Kelier,

Apparently, the preterist would have us believe the early church just missed it, as they never wrote about it. Funny, a lot of things were written about Jesus' birth, death, resurrection, and ascension, but absolutely NOTHING was recorded to DOCUMENT the 2nd Coming when it supposedly occurred. I guess they just wanted to keep it a secret.

Everything was documented...it's called Revelation, or John's Apocalypse. On the same token, every destruction of the Jewish temple was prophesied about and documented in the bible, EXCEPT the AD 70 destruction. I guess God just forgot to tell us about it...maybe John fell asleep while writing Revelation and never mentioned such an importan event.

 

[Kelier]

I sincerely hope you don't believe that Jesus told John to write Revelation as though the events contained therein had already happened.

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Kelier
I sincerely hope you don't believe that Jesus told John to write Revelation as though the events contained therein had already happened.

uh??

 

[Kelier]

Was Jesus telling John to write about what had already happened?

 

[armothe]

John, in revelation *clearly* detailed how the coming of Christ would be ushered in. It happened exactly the way he said.

What are you looking for? Another book, written exactly the way Revelation was writting, except the tense was changed from future to past? A "Revelation- the sequel" of some sorts?

Maybe John should have put a "PS" to his book a few years later that says, "I was right".

-A

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Kelier
Was Jesus telling John to write about what had already happened?

John wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, about events that "were soon to take place". The book was addressed to the "seven churches in Asia", not to americans living in 2002. No, John did not write about PAST events. Revelation was written before AD 70, about events that took place in AD 70, where there WAS a roman empire, there WAS a temple, and when sacrifices really DID stop three and a half year before the temple was destroyed. All these events already happened...it's a historical fact, not Left Behind fiction.

 

[Kelier]

Originally posted by Pericles


John wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, about events that "were soon to take place". The book was addressed to the "seven churches in Asia", not to americans living in 2002. No, John did not write about PAST events. Revelation was written before AD 70, about events that took place in AD 70, where there WAS a roman empire, there WAS a temple, and when sacrifices really DID stop three and a half year before the temple was destroyed. All these events already happened...it's a historical fact, not Left Behind fiction.

If it is all historical "fact" then why were none of these events documented? Surely someone would have documented them after the fact. Especially the return of Jesus Christ!

 

[Pericles]

Originally posted by Kelier


If it is all historical "fact" then why were none of these events documented? Surely someone would have documented them after the fact. Especially the return of Jesus Christ!

Read Josephus Flavius, The Wars of The Jews.

Read Tacitus

Read Eusebius, Church History

Certainly, you would be aware of this documentation since you are willing to reject my position without analyzing the evidence.

 

[Kelier]

Originally posted by Pericles


Read Josephus Flavius, The Wars of The Jews.

Read Tacitus

Read Eusebius, Church History

Certainly, you would be aware of this documentation since you are willing to reject my position without analyzing the evidence.

Ok the first 2 weren't even Christians and Eusebius I have never heard of.
So, I don't think I'm going to take the words of 2 men who were not Christians, who did not report to see the return of Jesus Himself, and some guy I have never even heard of and apparently neither do the majority of all Christians, otherwise preterism would be the majority view, not the futurist one.