Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

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3 Resurrections

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So, those resurrected people didn't die again?
Talked to Lazarus lately?
How about Dorcas?
How about Jairus' daughter?
They oughtta be pretty famous & well-known, right?

Of course none of those people ever died again. That would have gone against the strict limitations of the Hebrews 9:27 text. You and I have discussed before what happened to all these individuals you listed above. They were some of the "alive and remaining" saints which joined the other saints who were newly-resurrected in AD 70, when they met the Lord together in the air.

The word "remain" in that 1 Thess. 4:15 verse is more significant than you realize. The Greek is "perileipomenoi", which indicates a "reserved" status: those who would "abide" somewhere in that reserved status for a period of time. This is what happened to all those who were resurrected, such as those you mentioned above, as well as the Matthew 27:52-53 saints. They "remained" on the earth in that resurrected state for a time until the next AD 70 bodily resurrection arrived for the rest of the saints. At which time they joined the others and were raptured to heaven.

These are not on the earth anymore, and haven't been since that AD 70 resurrection when Christ returned to the Mount of Olives and gathered them all together, receiving them unto Himself.
 
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trophy33

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Thing is, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, NOR HAS IT HAPPENED YET.
Or it did happen and you simply expect it to be too literal or too global, so you do not accept it.

The generation that sees the beginning of those things will see them all.
Not sure what you mean by it, regarding preterism.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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You are assuming those 10 resurrections were exceptions to the Hebrews 9:27 rule of being appointed to die once. They weren't. No scriptures anywhere state that any of these resurrected ones died again. When Hebrews 9:27 plainly declares that to be an impossibility, then you have to go with that expressed truth.

Those 500 who were witnesses of the risen Christ? Those of that group who had since died were obviously NOT members of the Matthew 27 resurrected group who had already died once. Those of the 500 who were said to be still living? Possibly could have been some of the Matthew 27 resurrected saints.
Speaking of Lazarus. John 21:
22Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!” 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you?”24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who has written them down. And we know that his testimony is true.

The title "First-born" is indeed unique to Christ alone. That and the "First-begotten" title as well. But this is different than being the "First-fruits", which was a title that the 144,000 also shared along with Christ. I believe you are confusing the First-fruits BARLEY harvest around Passover with the later WHEAT harvest, which came later at Pentecost. It was the BARLEY harvest which had the sheaf handful of First-fruits waved before the Lord, that was accompanied by the single He-lamb without blemish.
If Christ isn't also the sheaf, then He can't be the first fruits. The sheaf of barley was the first fruits of the barley harvest.

That is one translation, but not necessarily an accurate one. In several translations, including the YLT and the Interlinear, Acts 26:23 reads with this sense: "...since the Christ was to be a suffering Christ, and by coming back from the dead was then to be the first to proclaim a message of light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles." The emphasis here is not on Christ being the first to rise from the dead in a resurrection, but rather, that after His resurrection, He was the FIRST to proclaim that good news to both the Jews and then the Gentiles. "To the Jew FIRST, and also to the Greek", as the order of evangelism went out from Jerusalem to the nations. That was the gospel message Christ first entrusted to Mary, to the first individual recorded as meeting Him after His resurrection.
Acts 26:23 Interlinear: that the Christ is to suffer, whether first by a rising from the dead, he is about to proclaim light to the people and to the nations.'
You can see here how the NASB corrected their mistake.
NASB 1995
that the Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”
New American Standard Bible
as to whether the Christ was to suffer, and whether, as first from the resurrection of the dead, He would proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

Of course it refers to Christ remaining in the flesh in His high priesthood role. His deathless high priesthood (reflective of Melchizedek's) is presented in direct contrast to those former priests "who were not suffered to continue by reason of death" - meaning their PHYSICAL death halted their high priesthood function. In the case of Christ, once He was raised from the dead, He gave testimony to John that "I am He that liveth and WAS dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore..." (Rev. 1:18). "Death hath no more dominion over Him". For Christ's flesh-and-bones, resurrected body to have been discarded would have been a second death for it, which scripture does not allow.
He was flesh and bones, because the same body shed of it's blood was raised with all the marks of his crucifixion. Job 2:5But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.” Bone and flesh mean the same as flesh and blood. 2 Samuel 5:1Then all the tribes of Israel came to David at Hebron and said, “Behold, we are your bone and flesh.
You do notice, don't you, that the word "UNTIL the heavens no longer exist" represents the point at which the dead in Christ are "woken from his sleep"? I think you agree with me that the change to the New Heavens and the New Earth took place back in the AD 70 era. This is when conditions of the Old Heavens and the Old Earth were done away with and no longer existed. Which is also when this "awaking from sleep" out of the grave took place for the believers, according to Job.
Absolutely do notice. See next post.
Why have you truncated the ending of this last Job 14:14 verse though? The LXX version of this passage is an interesting one. "For if a man should die, shall he live again, having accomplished the days of his life? I will wait TILL I EXIST AGAIN". (or, "till I am MADE AGAIN"). A reconstruction of the original material "made again" into a new condition seems apparent in this text.
Accidentally didn't select the last line. We don't disagree that we will exist again, but what is the nature of our new creation in Christ. Well here it is again: 2 Corinthians 5:1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
Parallel usage of the verb. Mark 13:2And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.
 

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Douggg

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That’s not even close to what He said. If He wanted to say that, He would have. “This generation”, whenever used, is always about the generation which is being addressed. The plain reading is plain.
If the "this" generation in the parable of the fig tree meant the disciples' generation, there would have been no reason for the parable.
 
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trophy33

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If the "this" generation in the parable of the fig tree meant the disciples' generation, there would have been no reason for the parable.
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.


Mt 23:33-36
 
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robycop3

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Of course none of those people ever died again. That would have gone against the strict limitations of the Hebrews 9:27 text. You and I have discussed before what happened to all these individuals you listed above. They were some of the "alive and remaining" saints which joined the other saints who were newly-resurrected in AD 70, when they met the Lord together in the air.

The word "remain" in that 1 Thess. 4:15 verse is more significant than you realize. The Greek is "perileipomenoi", which indicates a "reserved" status: those who would "abide" somewhere in that reserved status for a period of time. This is what happened to all those who were resurrected, such as those you mentioned above, as well as the Matthew 27:52-53 saints. They "remained" on the earth in that resurrected state for a time until the next AD 70 bodily resurrection arrived for the rest of the saints. At which time they joined the others and were raptured to heaven.

These are not on the earth anymore, and haven't been since that AD 70 resurrection when Christ returned to the Mount of Olives and gathered them all together, receiving them unto Himself.
Pure horse feathers!
Jesus did NOT return in AD 70, except Soiritually, as He does now when 2 or more gather in His name. Those resurrected people died again, same as the man resurrected when his dead body came in contact with Elisha's bones. (2 Kings 13:21)
 
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robycop3

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Or it did happen and you simply expect it to be too literal or too global, so you do not accept it.
It WILL be literal, same as the parts of the Olivet Discourse what've already been fulfilled.


Not sure what you mean by it, regarding preterism.
It means, it hasn't happened yet, while prets incorrectly it already has.
 
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trophy33

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It WILL be literal, same as the parts of the Olivet Discourse what've already been fulfilled.
Its mostly wrong to expect literal fulfillment of metaphores or of biblical usage of "all, the whole earth" etc. Any chance you expect such fulfillments?


It means, it hasn't happened yet, while prets incorrectly it already has.
What has not happened yet?
 
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trophy33

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Everything from Matthew 24:15-51.
Why do you think so?

Do you think there was some logical obstacle in the first century that makes it impossible?

Or do you simply think that the history is so old and we have so scarce preserved records from the first century war that we cannot be certain it happened?

What is your reasoning, exactly.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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What has not happened yet?
The second coming of Christ, the gathering of the elect, heaven and earth passing away and the judgment of all people with eternal sentences being handed out to all people.
 
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trophy33

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The second coming of Christ, the gathering of the elect, heaven and earth passing away and the judgment of all people with eternal sentences being handed out to all people.
I suppose you have a problem with the "old and new earth and heaven" metaphor and with the biblical usage of the word "all"?
 
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Hammster

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If the "this" generation in the parable of the fig tree meant the disciples' generation, there would have been no reason for the parable.
Jesus disagrees.
 
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Hammster

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Oh, REALLY? Then, show us from a legitimate, unbiased history book.
Are there any history books that actually deny the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple? Do YOU deny the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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About this:
What about it? Am I asking too much for you to be more specific about what exactly you're intending to say? I answered your question very specifically and you're responding by not being specific at all. Why?
 
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As I said, I guess you have the problem with "all" and "new heaven and earth"? Thats why you think it did not happen?
I'm going to ask you one more time to be more specific. Can you please specifically tell me exactly what your point is here? If you continue to only want to play games then I'm not interested in continuing the discussion.
 
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