Preterism-phony as a Ford Corvette

[robycop3]

When the ad hominems come out, you know you’ve won. Nothing more to say here.

So, ACTUALLY, you have no evidence.

 

[robycop3]

Again, I will remind you that they were "raptured" off the planet back in the AD 70 resurrection when Christ returned to the Mount of Olives as He was prophesied to do. They were the ones who were MADE "ALIVE" by resurrection, and had "remained" on earth until then. You will not meet any of those formerly-resurrected saints today, since they were "caught up together" with the newly-resurrected saints on that AD 70 year's Pentecost-day resurrection, just as Daniel 12:12 prophesied for that 1335th day.

There's not a peep of evidence that happened, either Biblical or historical.

 

[robycop3]

Bias isn't what makes something true or not. The only thing that makes something true or not are the actual facts. Your demand would eliminate the bible itself as it is extremely biased towards God and His Christ. The bible is unequivocally one-sided. Does that make the bible untrue?

I believe you know what I meant & are just being sarcastic.

 

[trophy33]

Not if they're LITERAL.



Nupe! Nero, while a bad boy, didn't BEGIN to fulfill the Biblical criteria for the beast/antichrist. He didn't overthrow 3 kings to come to power; he was appointed by his uncle Claudius & confirmed by the Senate. He had no miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. He was never in Jerusalem in his life, let alone in the temple. He was overthrown my men, while the true beast won't be. And he DIED; he was not cast alive into hell.



AOL="abomination of desolation". It'll be when the antichrist enters the new temple the Jews will build, set up his statue in it, & declare himself God.



Nupe! LITERAL !


Nupe! It'll be WORLDWIDE, not just limited to the Jews.(Rev. 3:10) There was no death of all life in the sea, no great rain of rocks, no splitting of Jerusalem into 3 parts by an earthquake, etc.



JESUS HIMSELF said, "Every eye shall see Him, even the eyes of those who pierced Him."

There is one huge problem with your interpretation - all this had to happen in the first century. Not later.

You are pushing these events to the future just because you do not know exactly how to interpret some details about antichrist, but you are breaking the manytimes repeated promise/claim that it all will happen in the lifespan of Jesus' disciples.

 

[trophy33]

Nupe! It'll be WORLDWIDE, not just limited to the Jews.(Rev. 3:10) There was no death of all life in the sea, no great rain of rocks, no splitting of Jerusalem into 3 parts by an earthquake, etc.

Its absolutely common in biblical prophecies that they seem more cataclysmic than their fulfillment. Just look at the Old Testament and prophecies and crying about wars and what global and colorful language was used. Then, the fulfillment was a classic war and desolation of Palestine. Its the same thing.

You are ignoring these facts and forcibly trying to keep a technically literal interpretation of all details of all images and of all figures of speech.

And because it was never meant to be fulfilled in such a way, you must still push it more and more into the future, even 2,000 years after the promised timing of the fulfillment.

 

[robycop3]

There is one huge problem with your interpretation - all this had to happen in the first century. Not later.

You are pushing these events to the future just because you do not know exactly how to interpret some details about antichrist, but you are breaking the manytimes repeated promise/claim that it all will happen in the lifespan of Jesus' disciples.

Sorry, Sir; there's no such promise in Scripture.

 

[robycop3]

Its absolutely common in biblical prophecies that they seem more cataclysmic than their fulfillment. Just look at the Old Testament and prophecies and crying about wars and what global and colorful language was used. Then, the fulfillment was a classic war and desolation of Palestine. Its the same thing.

You are ignoring these facts and forcibly trying to keep a technically literal interpretation of all details of all images and of all figures of speech.

And because it was never meant to be fulfilled in such a way, you must still push it more and more into the future, even 2,000 years after the promised timing of the fulfillment.

The absolute, unmistakable PROOF of those events not yet occurring is that the same ole earth that was here in AD 65, & 71 is still here now, still with people & nations. And many signs were recently fulfilled, or are being fulfilled right now, such as the land of Judah being a terror to the Egyptians (Isaiah 19), the sovereign Jewish nation with Jerusalem again its capital, the great falling away & moral decay, war & rumor of war, the vast increase in knowledge & travel, etc.

 

[3 Resurrections]

There's not a peep of evidence that happened, either Biblical or historical.

Of course there is evidence, both Biblical and historical, but you just don't choose to accept it. You are a jury of one.

 

[trophy33]

Sorry, Sir; there's no such promise in Scripture.

Is this enough?

Jesus:


"There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. "
Mk 8:38

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God. "
Lk 9:26-27

"...In no wise will ye have completed the cities of Israel, until the Son of man be come."
Mt 10:23

"This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. "
Mk 13:30

"This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "
Lk 21: 32

"...Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. "
Mt 26:64

"O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath about to come? And now also the axe is laid"
Lk 3:7-9


Apostles:


"But this is that having been spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it will be in the last days...the sun will be darkened, moon into blood, blood, fire, vapor..."
Acts 2:16

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

"The time is short [the time that remains is short]: Therefore they that have wives be as though they had none"
1 Cor. 7:29-31

Now these things happened to them as types and were written for our admonition, to whom the ends of the ages are arrived.
1Cor 10:11

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51


"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 Thessalonians 4:17

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 Thessalonians 5:23


Revelation:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must take place shortly."
Rev 1:1

"...the time is near."
Rev 1:3

‘Look, he is coming with the clouds,’ and ‘every eye will see him, even those who pierced him’; and all peoples on earth ‘will mourn because of him.’ So shall it be! Amen.”
Rev 1:7

"…God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Behold, I am coming quickly:"
Rev 22:7

"...Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near. "
Rev 22:10

"And, behold, I come quickly;"
Rev 22:12

"...Surely I am coming quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
Rev 22:20

===============

There is hardly any other promise or prophecy that has been repeated so many times, in so many forms and in so many biblical books than that Jesus will return shortly, soon, quickly and while at least a part of His earthly audience was still alive.

 

[trophy33]

The absolute, unmistakable PROOF of those events not yet occurring is that the same ole earth that was here in AD 65, & 71 is still here now, still with people & nations. And many signs were recently fulfilled, or are being fulfilled right now, such as the land of Judah being a terror to the Egyptians (Isaiah 19), the sovereign Jewish nation with Jerusalem again its capital, the great falling away & moral decay, war & rumor of war, the vast increase in knowledge & travel, etc.

There has always been some resemblence throughout the history, almost any generation of futurists thought they are the last ones because of some isolated sign they thought is from the bible.

But as it already been said, it had to happen shortly after the Jesus' earthly mission, not later. We cannot deliberately widen the time frame according to our personal wishes.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

That is not at all what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. There is no "technical violation" of the Hebrews 9:27 rule. Paul did not teach any exception to the one-time-only death for all mankind in the 1 Cor. 15:51-52 text.

Paul was speaking to the believers when he said "We shall not all sleep" meaning "None of us shall sleep, but we shall all be changed..." None of the believers would stay dead in the grave. ALL of the dead believers would be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, etc.. That entire context describes how the dead in Christ would be given incorruptibility in the resurrection - not how there would be some believers who would never pass through death at all.

Traditionally, this verse has been interpreted to mean that not every person would experience the physical death process, but all would be changed anyway, whether they were alive or not. But you should compare this verse to the way 1 John 2:19 uses the very same language about the many antichrists that went out from among the believers. It reads...

"They" (speaking of the antichrists) "went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were NOT ALL of us." This is exactly the same way 1 Cor. 15:51 reads, when it says "we shall NOT ALL sleep..."

Now, if you are going to make "not all" teach that there are exceptions to the general rule, then you would have to do the very same thing with the antichrists spoken about in 1 John 2:19. That would mean that some of the antichrists actually did belong among the believers, as an exception. And that was not John's point at all. He meant that NONE of the antichrists actually belonged among the believers. It was manifestly obvious that none of them belonged with the assembly, because they all took off and quit having fellowship with the church.

It's the same thing with "we shall not all sleep...". It means that there would not be a single exception among the dead believers - ALL would have their dead bodies changed into the incorruptible.

The message of scripture is unanimous across the board with no contradictions: all of mankind dies the one time - no exceptions. And all of the dead bodies of believers will be changed to the incorruptible in a bodily resurrection. Not one of them will be left in the dust of the grave.

Nonsense. You are badly butchering that passage and not accepting what Paul taught. Paul said we shall not all sleep/die and that means...we won't all sleep/die. It really doesn't get any more straightforward than that. What he said there lines up with what he taught here:

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Do you see here how Paul contrasts "them which are asleep/the dead in Christ" with "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord"? Those who are still alive when He returns won't die. Instead, they will be immediately changed to have incorruptible, immortal bodies.

 

[robycop3]

Of course there is evidence, both Biblical and historical, but you just don't choose to accept it. You are a jury of one.

The "evidence" posted here so far has been opinion & guesswork.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51

"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 Thessalonians 4:17

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 Thessalonians 5:23

In no way, shape or form was Paul saying in those passages that he somehow knew he would still be alive when Christ returned. I'm sure he believed he and his Corinthian and Thessalonian readers might still be alive at the time, but what he was saying is that those who are alive and remain until the future coming of the Lord, which he believed could include him, will be caught up together with the dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air.

Obviously, he isn't still alive and Christ still hasn't returned, so he will be among the dead in Christ who are resurrected at that time and he and the rest of the dead in Christ will be caught up together with those in Christ who are still alive at the time to meet the Lord in the air. That has clearly not yet occurred.

Are you a full preterist or do you believe Christ will return in the future?

 

[trophy33]

I'm not pushing anything into the future.

You obviously are.

Do you actually think this is a convincing way to make an argument? Please.

I am not here to convince you.

Full preterism is not allowed to be promoted on this forum. Please stop doing that.

Do you realize what thread you are currently in? Reacting is not promoting.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Do you realize what thread you are currently in? Reacting is not promoting.

Is this your way of saying you want to be reported? You are promoting your full preterist beliefs in this thread and that is against forum rules. Is that too hard for you to understand? Are you planning to continue to do so?

 

[trophy33]

Is this your way of saying you want to be reported? You are promoting your full preterist beliefs in this thread. Are you planning to continue to do so?

If you like censorship, report whatever you like, I do not care.

But thanks, it means my arguments are so good that you must stop them this way.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

If you like censorship, report whatever you like, I do not care.

But thanks, it means my arguments are so good that you must stop them this way.

I like following forum rules. I guess you don't. Your arguments are weak so it has nothing to do with that. As a Christian, you should want to respect the rules of a Christian forum.

 

[trophy33]

I like following forum rules. I guess you don't. Your arguments are weak so it has nothing to do with that. As a Christian, you should want to respect the rules of a Christian forum.

As a Christian I should respect and say truth. As a Christian you should know that.

Report me and I will have a reward in heaven for this persecution, so do whatever you must do.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

As a Christian I should respect and say truth. As a Christian you should know that.

Report me and I will have a reward in heaven for this persecution, so do whatever you must do.

Persecution? LOL. You must not know what persecution is. I don't think you will get a reward for blatantly violating the rules of a Christian forum, though. Good luck.

 

[3 Resurrections]

you see here how Paul contrasts "them which are asleep/the dead in Christ" with "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord"? Those who are still alive when He returns won't die. Instead, they will be immediately changed to have incorruptible, immortal bodies.

The way you are interpreting this directly contradicts the rule of Hebrews 9:27 with a one-time death experience. Scripture does not contradict itself. Of course 1 Thess. 4 shows a contrast between two groups. One was a group of those who had already been MADE "ALIVE" by a bodily resurrection, and who had "remained" on the earth; and the others were the dead saints who were resurrected to life in the AD 70 return of Christ. Together, both would meet the Lord in the air back then.

You aren't paying very careful attention to the critical word "remain" in 1 Thess. 4:15 & 17. This "perileipomenoi" Greek word represents a RESERVED STATUS of those who are "abiding" somewhere for a length of time. That was the "seal" given to the 144,000 First-fruits - the Matthew 27 resurrected saints who came out of the grave that day when Christ the First-fruits arose. A "seal" is a sign of a reserved status, as a sign of assurance of an inevitable fulfillment at a later date.