Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[Jipsah]

Nupe ! Went by Scripture.

Went right by it without looking, apparently.

That's cuz the Romans didn't commit the AOD. The "legion atandards" thingie is pret jive, pullwd outta thin air.

History, matey. Like garlic, or a cross, to a vampire, innit?

MMRRPP ! WRONG ! There must be a temple for the AOD to occur in.

Yep, and there was. The one that was desecrated and razed to the ground by the Romans. Oh, I forgot, that Didn't Count because the history refuses to conform to your Rube Goldberg doctrine.

Right after you explain how the things that our Lord told His disciples would hapen in their lifetimes, and how they should deal with them "didn't really count", or however your jackleg doctrine "explains them away". As I said, either ignorant of history, willfully ignoring it, or both.

Jesus never said it'd happen in their lifetimes.

Might want to actually read the Olivet Discourse and see if you can figure out who our Lord was talking to.

 

[JLB777]

Sorry, but Paul clarified that in 1 thes. 4, it is all the BELIEVERS: those in Christ. Sorry, but the world does not or will not change at Paul's rapture.

First of all, it’s not “Paul’s rapture”.

It’s the rapture that takes place at the coming of the Lord.

Paul wrote according to the Lord Jesus, which is why he plainly said the
“word of the Lord”…


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Secondly, the world will indeed change drastically and irreversibly because at His coming, the wicked including the antichrist will be destroyed.


But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-3




JLB

 

[robycop3]

It's actually historically true - documented - and rational.
It makes the most sense of the passage where Jesus said it would happen in THAT Generation.
It was about THAT temple, THAT generation, and actually happened about 40 years later.
You have to invent a highly speculative reading of the passage about a hypothetical third temple and hypothetical AOD that dismisses what Jesus said about THAT generation.

But when someone has a passionate commitment to Revelation being all about US instead of all about THEM 2000 years ago and by extension to all Christians - I guess anything is possible when shoving the gospels to fit whatever?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! !
Sure, the Romans carried standards, as did all army units right up until modern times. (And the separate units still have standards; they just don't carry them into battle too much now.) Whatever reverence the Romans gave them was NOT the AOD. Daniel, Paul, and Jesus in Revelation made it plain the AOD will be done by ONE MAN. And I strongly suggest you look up the meanings of the Greek word 'genea'.

Just look around you. The world is still going right on, same as it did in 65 AD, 70 AD, & 71 AD. All that's changed is the inventions & scientific progress that God has allowed man to make. there's not been any worldwide great trib yet, and certainly no return of Jesus.

And prophecy is still being fulfilled right before our eyes. travel & knowledge have exploded in the last hundred years, as never before. Many "Christian" nations have made sexual perversions the new normal. The Jews have a sovereign nation again, and many other things have come to pass. But there's still plenty of prophecy yet to be fulfilled. But prets can't see that. They disregard reality all around them because they're so in thrall to their false doctrine & their gurus that they misinterpret Scripture & don't see the forest for the trees. So I just laugh & laugh at the nonsense you & other prets bring up.

 

[parousia70]

Jesus never said it'd happen in their lifetimes.

Except here:
You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

And Here:
"There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

And Here:
"This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

And Here:
"Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." (Revelation 3:3)

 

[robycop3]

Except here:
You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

He was referring to His return to Jerusalem to observe passover & be murdered.

And Here:
"There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

Some saw Him at His transfiguration when He appeared with Moses & Elijah. Obviously, they didn't see His return as at that time He hadn't departed yet, and He hasn't yet returned.

And Here:
"This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

And the generation that will see all those things may not yet be here.

And Here:
"Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." (Revelation 3:3)

And we still don't know that.

 

[Jipsah]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! !

Yeah, the idea that our Lord was answering questions being asked of Him by His disciples is simply hilarious, innit? No, you lot know that Jesus turned away from His followers to face the cameras, and address His answers to people thousands of years later.

Sure, the Romans carried standards, as did all army units right up until modern times.

You sure you want to admit that? After all, that's history, something you folks appear to view with disgust and horror because it simply refuses to conform to your thunk-up-by-hand doctrinal sillinesses.

And the separate units still have standards

Surely not! And I suppose they make sacrifice to them as don't, don't they? Don't they?

; they just don't carry them into battle too much now.) Whatever reverence the Romans gave them was NOT the AOD.

Of course not! Pagan sacrifice in the Temple was abominable when Antiochus's boys did it, but was altogether harmless when the Riomans did it. Says so right there on your doctrine.

Daniel, Paul, and Jesus in Revelation made it plain the AOD will be done by ONE MAN.

That's what's called "knight jump exegesis", the art of pasting together unrelated Scriptures by taking two jumps this way and one jump that way (or vice versa). Handiest thing since "but what that really means is..." when you'r trying to shore up a contrived doctrine.

And I strongly suggest you look up the meanings of the Greek word 'genea'.[/quote[

You could profit from doing that yourself. Just sayin'

Just look around you. The world is still going right on, same as it did in 65 AD, 70 AD, & 71 AD.

Except that the Temple had been subjected to the abomination of p[agan sacrifice being performed in it, and had been both desecrated and destroyed. Sacrifice and oblation have ceased. Jerusalem was .sacked by the Romans. The Jews were slaughtered. But to you lot, it "didn't could". Right, and I'm your sainted grandmother.

All that's changed is the inventions & scientific progress that God has allowed man to make. there's not been any worldwide great trib yet and certainly no return of Jesus.

But according to your extraordinarily silly doctrine, nothing of import happened at all. The world chaanged out of all recognition, especially if you were a Middle Easterm Jew, but hey, didn't bother you none so it didn't signify. How obtuse can anyone get?

And prophecy is still being fulfilled right before our eyes.

Oh, of course! Every tornado and earthquake is a Sign of the End. Every economic downturn that affects the price of internet bandwidth in the US is evidence that The Rapture ® is at hand. Trump gets elected? Sign of the End.
Biden gets elected? Sign of the End. The Sanhedrin is reestablished, although no one seems aware of it except Dispensationalist Baptists. The Jews are in a lather to rebuild the Temple, which seems to be common knowledge to everyone but the Jews. There's a giant mainframe computer (a what? in 2023?) called The Beast in Geneva waiting to be used by The Antichrist, and has been for a minumum of 40 years. The Chinese are rebuilding the Silk Road so they can move their 200,000,000 cavalry troopers (seriously?) to attack Israel for not buying enough iPhones; except they weren't, and aren't. The Rapture ® has to occur within one generation of the recognition of the founding of the political State of Israel, and thus must happen before 1988/2000/2011/2012/2023/2056/3034/TBA. But Texas is now chocablock with Red Heifers, so The Time Is At Hand, right? On and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

travel & knowledge have exploded in the last hundred years, as never before. Many "Christian" nations have made sexual perversions the new normal.

And God knows sin was almost unheard of in the Roman Empire, wasn't it? They didn't abort babys, they just stuck on the exposure wall. And murder was pretty much unknown then. And travel didn't happen then, as obviously St. Paul never made it out of Judea. No sexual perversion then, either. Right.

But prets can't see that.

Could be. But you lot are in the ridiculous position of having to deny that events thst unarguably happened either didn't happen at all or "didn't count". That's pure nonsense.

They disregard reality all around

Yeah, where pretty much everytibng is a Sign of the End, including the things invented from whole cloth. Balderdash. Our Lord will return when it's His good pleasure, and all the rubbish "schedules" contrived by Dispies are just that - rubbish.

them because they're so in thrall to their false doctrine & their gurus that they misinterpret Scripture & don't see the forest for the trees. So I just laugh & laugh at the nonsense you & other prets bring up.

In the end, laughing is about all you've got. that, and a wholly unscriptural made-made addle-pated "end times" doctrine based on nothing at all. Have a good time with it!

 

[robycop3]

Yeah, the idea that our Lord was answering questions being asked of Him by His disciples is simply hilarious, innit? No, you lot know that Jesus turned away from His followers to face the cameras, and address His answers to people thousands of years later.

You sure you want to admit that? After all, that's history, something you folks appear to view with disgust and horror because it simply refuses to conform to your thunk-up-by-hand doctrinal sillinesses.




Surely not! And I suppose they make sacrifice to them as don't, don't they? Don't they?


Of course not! Pagan sacrifice in the Temple was abominable when Antiochus's boys did it, but was altogether harmless when the Riomans did it. Says so right there on your doctrine.


That's what's called "knight jump exegesis", the art of pasting together unrelated Scriptures by taking two jumps this way and one jump that way (or vice versa). Handiest thing since "but what that really means is..." when you'r trying to shore up a contrived doctrine.


You could profit from doing that yourself. Just sayin'



Except that the Temple had been subjected to the abomination of p[agan sacrifice being performed in it, and had been both desecrated and destroyed. Sacrifice and oblation have ceased. Jerusalem was .sacked by the Romans. The Jews were slaughtered. But to you lot, it "didn't could". Right, and I'm your sainted grandmother.

But according to your extraordinarily silly doctrine, nothing of import happened at all. The world chaanged out of all recognition, especially if you were a Middle Easterm Jew, but hey, didn't bother you none so it didn't signify. How obtuse can anyone get?


Oh, of course! Every tornado and earthquake is a Sign of the End. Every economic downturn that affects the price of internet bandwidth in the US is evidence that The Rapture ® is at hand. Trump gets elected? Sign of the End.
Biden gets elected? Sign of the End. The Sanhedrin is reestablished, although no one seems aware of it except Dispensationalist Baptists. The Jews are in a lather to rebuild the Temple, which seems to be common knowledge to everyone but the Jews. There's a giant mainframe computer (a what? in 2023?) called The Beast in Geneva waiting to be used by The Antichrist, and has been for a minumum of 40 years. The Chinese are rebuilding the Silk Road so they can move their 200,000,000 cavalry troopers (seriously?) to attack Israel for not buying enough iPhones; except they weren't, and aren't. The Rapture ® has to occur within one generation of the recognition of the founding of the political State of Israel, and thus must happen before 1988/2000/2011/2012/2023/2056/3034/TBA. But Texas is now chocablock with Red Heifers, so The Time Is At Hand, right? On and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.


And God knows sin was almost unheard of in the Roman Empire, wasn't it? They didn't abort babys, they just stuck on the exposure wall. And murder was pretty much unknown then. And travel didn't happen then, as obviously St. Paul never made it out of Judea. No sexual perversion then, either. Right.



Could be. But you lot are in the ridiculous position of having to deny that events thst unarguably happened either didn't happen at all or "didn't count". That's pure nonsense.


Yeah, where pretty much everytibng is a Sign of the End, including the things invented from whole cloth. Balderdash. Our Lord will return when it's His good pleasure, and all the rubbish "schedules" contrived by Dispies are just that - rubbish.


In the end, laughing is about all you've got. that, and a wholly unscriptural made-made addle-pated "end times" doctrine based on nothing at all. Have a good time with it!

Rather than answering all your goofy stuff separately. I'll just simply say Scripture & reality proves you completely wrong.
Daniel 11:31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
First mention of the AOD. Notice the "he" in that passage & in the preceding ones. Also notice it reads "place there".

Matt. 24:15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
The Romans didn't place their standards there. They carried them as they always did, & took them with themselves when they left.
The Romans were proud of their units, same as modern soldiers are. For example, members of "The Big Red One", the US 1st Infantry Division, were & are very proud to be members of that unit. They have a standard & shoulder patches with a big red "1" on them. The Roman standards served to rally scattered troops together & as symbols of pride in their units.
There is an equally-stupid notion that the Romans committed the AOD by worshipping the eagle symbols on their standards.
Now, let's disprove the notion that a group of soldiers committed the AOD by worshipping their standards:
2 Thess.2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.[/COLOR]
This DID NOT OCCUR in the old temple. So, there must be a new one built for this to occur in.
It's ONE MAN who will sit in the new temple & declare himself to be God, not a group. And the Romans worshipped their pantheon, while the true beast won't recognize any god but himself. This is further reinforced by Rev. 13.
So, your pret silliness remains false.

 

[Jipsah]

Rather than answering all your goofy stuff separately. I'll just simply say Scripture & reality proves you completely wrong.

As long as you're reading it through your doctrinal goggles, sure. B ut unfortunately your doctrine is rubbish.

Daniel 11:31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
First mention of the AOD. Notice the "he" in that passage & in the preceding ones. Also notice it reads "place there".

Ergo sacrifice and oblation haven't ceased in your fantasy world. Got it. And a pagan sacrifice in the Temple is an abomination when it suits your doctrine, but isn't when it doesn't. Right.

Matt. 24:15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
The Romans didn't place their standards there.

The standards came in by themselves? How interesting.

There is an equally-stupid notion that the Romans committed the AOD by worshipping the eagle symbols on their standards.

I'm sure you're righjt. A pagan ritual in the Temple was a good thing when the Romans done it, right? Or at least innocuous, si? If you have the goggles on, anyway.

Now, let's disprove the notion that a group of soldiers committed the AOD by worshipping their standards:
2 Thess.2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Knight Jump Exegesis pasting together unrelated Scriptures. Find someone who hasn't read the NT to peddle that blather to.

This DID NOT OCCUR in the old temple. So, there must be a new one built for this to occur in.

Thus saith your rubbish doctrine, not Scripture.

You've brilliantl deomonstrated that ridiculous presuppositions lead to ridiculous conclusions.

 

[eclipsenow]

Whatever reverence the Romans gave them was NOT the AOD. Daniel, Paul, and Jesus in Revelation made it plain the AOD will be done by ONE MAN.

No they didn't - not at all!
First, Daniel's text is highly debated and not entirely clear. The Sydney Anglican Reformed Evangelical position seems to be that it's most likely Antiochus - but Daniel's symbolism is difficult.
Second, Jesus warns them not to trust in the temple - but to trust in him. To be aware that he was about to be crucified and this would have consequences. But Jesus is most DEFINITELY NOT LYING TO THEM - but saying the temple they were looking at right then and there would come down that generation. That's the easiest part to get from the Olivet discourse - whatever else it says.

"Christian" nations have made sexual perversions the new normal. The Jews have a sovereign nation again, and many other things have come to pass. But there's still plenty of prophecy yet to be fulfilled. But prets can't see that. They disregard reality all around them because they're so in thrall to their false doctrine & their gurus that they misinterpret Scripture & don't see the forest for the trees. So I just laugh & laugh at the nonsense you & other prets bring up.

I'm not sure why you think immorality is a sign of any eschatological significance? The Roman world was the "last days" being discussed as terrible times. What goes around comes around. The Roman world was much like today morally - and what the disciples were warning against?

But the most important point - Jesus didn't lie. He was answering their excitement about THAT temple. And it came down within 40 years - that generation - as he said it would.

 

[robycop3]

No they didn't - not at all!
First, Daniel's text is highly debated and not entirely clear. The Sydney Anglican Reformed Evangelical position seems to be that it's most likely Antiochus - but Daniel's symbolism is difficult.
Second, Jesus warns them not to trust in the temple - but to trust in him. To be aware that he was about to be crucified and this would have consequences. But Jesus is most DEFINITELY NOT LYING TO THEM - but saying the temple they were looking at right then and there would come down that generation. That's the easiest part to get from the Olivet discourse - whatever else it says.

Almost all translators agree that Danny was talking about the AOD there. And Jesus agreed as he spoke of Danny's mention of it. And yes, the temple was pulled apart so that not one stone of it remained atop another, as the Romans were searching for gold between its stones. But the AOD did NOT occur in it before it was destroyed. (Blaming it upon the Romans' ensigns is ridiculous.)

I'm not sure why you think immorality is a sign of any eschatological significance? The Roman world was the "last days" being discussed as terrible times. What goes around comes around. The Roman world was much like today morally - and what the disciples were warning against?

Paul warned that a great falling away (from true faith & worship) would come & THE man of sin would be revealed before the coming of the Day of the Lord. That falling away among those who claim to be Christians is going on right now, as is plain to see.

But the most important point - Jesus didn't lie. He was answering their excitement about THAT temple. And it came down within 40 years - that generation - as he said it would.

Everyone knows that. But the AOD didn't occur in it. Thus, a new temple will be built that it'll occur in.

 

[Jipsah]

Everyone knows that. But the AOD didn't occur in it.

Sure it did. But your unscriptural and silly contrived End Times doctrine doesn't allow you to say it. So you have a weird work around where one pagan desecration of the Temple was Abominable, but he next pagan desecration, and destruction, of the Temple wasn't so bad. Gotta make that bogus doctrine "work", don't you?

It happened just as our Lord said it would, in the lifetimes of those to whom He said it. Your doctrine says no. Ergo your doctrine is rubbish.

(And to save you a lot of unnecessary typing, this is where you go "Huhuhuhuhuh! Is not!")

 

[robycop3]

Sure it did. But your unscriptural and silly contrived End Times doctrine doesn't allow you to say it. So you have a weird work around where one pagan desecration of the Temple was Abominable, but he next pagan desecration, and destruction, of the Temple wasn't so bad. Gotta make that bogus doctrine "work", don't you?

It happened just as our Lord said it would, in the lifetimes of those to whom He said it. Your doctrine says no. Ergo your doctrine is rubbish.

(And to save you a lot of unnecessary typing, this is where you go "Huhuhuhuhuh! Is not!")

No, it did NOT. To say the AOD was the Romans' standards & ensigns is just plain GOOFY. The Romans burned the temple & pulled it apart. They didn't worship in it. Remember, Jesus said the AOD was mantioned by Daniel, & the first one occurred when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus in the temple & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. Thus, the later AOD will be similar to that, except that the antichrist will set up a statue of himself & stop all sacrifices. Prophecy must be fulfilled EXACTL;Y, not according to man's silly notions & guesswork.

And Jesus did NOT say it would happen in the lifetimes of the disciples. He said when J is surrounded by armies & the AOD occurs, everyone should flee at once to the mountains, not even stoppiong in their homes to gather anything. That did NOT happen in the disciples' lifetimes. J was first besieged by Vespasian's army, which left to make Vespasian Caesar, then, it was a full 8 months before another army under Titus besieged J again.So, those who fled to Pella had a full 8 montha to do so. And, of course, the AOD didn't occur then.

Your pret blather does NOT match either Scripture or history,except that both J & the temple were destroyed. But the AOD did NOT occur then.

 

[JLB777]

Except here:
You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

And Here:
"There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

And Here:
"This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

And Here:
"Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." (Revelation 3:3)

So far no mention of Jesus returning in their lifetime in any of the scriptures you posted.

 

[parousia70]

He was referring to His return to Jerusalem to observe passover & be murdered.

What scripture teaches this?

Some saw Him at His transfiguration when He appeared with Moses & Elijah. Obviously, they didn't see His return as at that time He hadn't departed yet, and He hasn't yet returned.

What is your scriptural justification for completely divorcing Matthew 16:28 from Matthew 16:27?

And the generation that will see all those things may not yet be here.

Or, like in every other use of "this Generation" in the NT, it referrs to the then present generation Jesus was addressing.
Of course, you're welcome to supply your scriptural justification for completely Divorcing Matthew 24:34 from every other NT use of the term "this Generation".

And we still don't know that.

Don't know what? We KNOW He PROMISED His thief's coming would befall the first century folks at Sardis who weren't watching.
Is your position that He was merely mistaken, or that He lied?

 

[parousia70]

So far no mention of Jesus returning in their lifetime in any of the scriptures you posted.

If only you simply saying so made it true... but alas, it doesn't.

Ever the optomist, I'll afford your the opportunity, per specific forum policy, to demonstrate HOW each scripture I posted does not mean whant I contend.
"When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed..."

Until then, your words are empty.

 

[Jipsah]

No, it did NOT.

You left out the obligatory "Huhuhuhuhuh!" Minus 10 points.

To say the AOD was the Romans' standards & ensigns is just plain GOOFY.

Always cogent arguments. OK, you're right. AE's pagan sacrifices in the Temple, Bad. Roman legionaries pagan sacrifices in the Temple (just before they razed it to the ground) Not Bad. Gotcha. Your logic is worthy of Aristotle hid own self.

The Romans burned the temple & pulled it apart.

Which wasn't so bad, right?

They didn't worship in it.

Just an everyday unimportant tiny little pagan sacrifice. Didn't Really Count, did it?

Remember, Jesus said the AOD was mantioned by Daniel, & the first one occurred when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus in the temple & sacrificed a pig upon the altar.

And God didn't like that one little bit.

Thus, the later AOD will be similar to that, except that the antichrist will set up a statue of himself & stop all sacrifices.

Your doctrine says that, not Scripture. Hard for you to tell the difference, innit?

Prophecy must be fulfilled EXACTL;Y, not according to man's silly notions & guesswork.

So will the Bad Guys have to resurrect old Antiochus to sacrifice another hog after he's built that new temple? Interesting...

And Jesus did NOT say it would happen in the lifetimes of the disciples.

Right. He'd turned to face the cameras and wasn't talking to them anymore at all.

He said when J is surrounded by armies & the AOD occurs, everyone should flee at once to the mountains, not even stopping in their homes to gather anything.

It did, and they did. Oh, right, That Didn't Count. Got it

That did NOT happen in the disciples' lifetimes. J was first besieged by Vespasian's army, which left to make Vespasian Caesar, then, it was a full 8 months before another army under Titus besieged J again.So, those who fled to Pella had a full 8 montha to do so. And, of course, the AOD didn't occur then.

I'm sorry, but that has to be the dumbest assertion that's been made in this thread, and that's saying a great deal. But are you sure Vespasian had anything to do with the seige of Jerusalem? I mean, maybe That Didn't Count. Obviously the seige itself Didn't Count. Maybe Titus's seige was the only one that Counted, or maybe neither did at all. Best figure out which if these tales best fits your doctrine and run with it. I still think your best bet is simply asserting that the Temple's still there and sacrifice continues apace. It can't be any silllier than the exegetical and historical rat's nest you lot have to construct to try and keep this nonsensical doctrine of yours afloat. No wonder St. Hal had to get a real job.

Your pret blather does NOT match either Scripture or history,except that both J & the temple were destroyed. But the AOD did NOT occur then.

Yep, says so right there in The Late Great Planet Earth, dunnit? That, and the new Silk Road, and the Common Market, and the Soviet Union, and 40 year "generations", ad infinitum. How your lot can still cling to that gobbledygook is beyond me.

 

[JLB777]

If only you simply saying so made it true... but alas, it doesn't.

Ever the optomist, I'll afford your the opportunity, per specific forum policy, to demonstrate HOW each scripture I posted does not mean whant I contend.
"When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed..."

Until then, your words are empty.

Actually your words are empty as the scriptures you quoted don’t mention “your lifetime”.

You have projected your own private ”interpretation” upon the scriptures.


Jesus was teaching His disciples from His prophetic word through the mouth of Zechariah on the mount of Olives in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13.


You can find this in Zechariah 14.


The armies that surround Jerusalem on that Day, the Day of the Lord, when Jesus returns are the armies of the nations that He Himself gathers for destruction.

He Himself will fight against them and destroy them.


This did not happen in 70 AD, as the Romans soldiers led by Titus returned to Rome as conquering hero’s, with Titus himself being made Emporor.


Read and learn —


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the LORD—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:1-7


Did this happen in 70 AD?


Here is what happens to those who fight against Jerusalem on that day.


And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12


Did this happen to the Roman soldiers in 70 AD?


again


And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:16


Do all the nations go up to worship Jesus every year in Jerusalem and to keep the feast of Tabernacles?




Wake Up!


Preterism is Heresy!







JLB

 

[robycop3]

You left out the obligatory "Huhuhuhuhuh!" Minus 10 points.


Always cogent arguments. OK, you're right. AE's pagan sacrifices in the Temple, Bad. Roman legionaries pagan sacrifices in the Temple (just before they razed it to the ground) Not Bad. Gotcha. Your logic is worthy of Aristotle hid own self.


Which wasn't so bad, right?


Just an everyday unimportant tiny little pagan sacrifice. Didn't Really Count, did it?


And God didn't like that one little bit.


Your doctrine says that, not Scripture. Hard for you to tell the difference, innit?


So will the Bad Guys have to resurrect old Antiochus to sacrifice another hog after he's built that new temple? Interesting...


Right. He'd turned to face the cameras and wasn't talking to them anymore at all.


It did, and they did. Oh, right, That Didn't Count. Got it


I'm sorry, but that has to be the dumbest assertion that's been made in this thread, and that's saying a great deal. But are you sure Vespasian had anything to do with the seige of Jerusalem? I mean, maybe That Didn't Count. Obviously the seige itself Didn't Count. Maybe Titus's seige was the only one that Counted, or maybe neither did at all. Best figure out which if these tales best fits your doctrine and run with it. I still think your best bet is simply asserting that the Temple's still there and sacrifice continues apace. It can't be any silllier than the exegetical and historical rat's nest you lot have to construct to try and keep this nonsensical doctrine of yours afloat. No wonder St. Hal had to get a real job.


Yep, says so right there in The Late Great Planet Earth, dunnit? That, and the new Silk Road, and the Common Market, and the Soviet Union, and 40 year "generations", ad infinitum. How your lot can still cling to that gobbledygook is beyond me.

BAH ! HUMBUG !

According to your poster boy Josephus, the Romans fought hard to conquer the defenders of the temple, & in the process, some of the Romans set it ablaze. HE DID NOT MENTION ANY WORSHIPPING BY THE ROMANS OF THEIR ENSIGNS OR ANYTHING ELSE IN THE TEMPLE ! ! He did mention that Titus entered the temple before the fire spread all through it & tried in vain to get his soldiers to extinguish the blaze, but there's no mention of him committing any of the AOD acts while there. So your whole scenario goes "POOF!" in the face of reality, & writings by both the Romans & the Jew Josephus.

There's no historical evidence whatsoever that any group of Christians fled pell-mell to Pella or any other mountain fortress when Vespasian's army arrived. However, manu made an orderly retreat from J in the 8 months between Vespasian's & Titus's sieges.

Again, your imaginations don't match the actual events, & the eschatological events are still future. And, of course, all this is overshadowed by the fact that Jesus hasn't yet returned in the manner He Himself said He would, in great power & glory, visible as lightning, seen by all, including the souls of the dead.

 

[parousia70]

Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.

Yes, scripture says this battle would be just like He previously fought in the day of Battle.
Got any previous scriptural examples of How He "fights in the day of Battle"?

 

[parousia70]

Actually your words are empty as the scriptures you quoted don’t mention “your lifetime”.

Really? So when Jesus said to the Living, breathing, 1st century people at Sardis, "If YOU do not watch, I will come upon YOU as a thief" He didn't mean it?

That's what you're going with?