Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[robycop3]

You keep making these comments without verifying them from the Scriptures. Would you believe my biblical assumptions without verification from the Word of God? I would hope you would not! Neither do I believe just because you say it is so.

Read my latest posts. And the above is found in Rev. 13.

 

[robycop3]

If they do build a temple, it will be destroyed at the Second Coming. Then Jesus will build His temple and throne in Jerusalem.

Not arguing against that. Its prophetic purpose will be served when the antichrist commits the AOD in it.

 

[robycop3]

Which are necessary to keep your made-up doctrine intact. BTW, how long is a futurist "generation" these days? You may have to expand it again here shortly.

Aint made up; it's entirely Scriptural, unlike your pret bunk.

 

[robycop3]

YOu mean they haven't stopped?

They'll resume again when the Jews build a new temple, then, the antichrist will stop them again.

 

[robycop3]

Already did. Temple desecrated. Temple destroyed. Sacrifice stopped. You say it didn't count. I say the goofy Rube Goldberg futurist doctrine doesn't count.

Nupe !
No AOD.
No beast with a false prophet sidekick.
No great trib.
And certainly ,no return of Jesus yet.

 

[Timtofly]

Your doctrine is very strange and unbiblical. I suppose that's why you offer no supporting Scripture.

You know all the Scriptures. I am surprised you don't accept the verses. Revelation 20. 2 Peter 3. Genesis 2. Exodus 20. Matthew 13. Matthew 24 and 25. Verses and verses for 2 years now. No one uses Scriptures around here unless they cut and paste. Human theology as given here from the apostate church over the last 1800 years is strange to Scriptures, but you all still accept it.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus does not destroy anything other than the armies of the Anti-Christ, at His Return. Even they are not destroyed, as such; but killed and as food for the carrion eaters.
Nowhere is it prophesied that Jesus would build a new Temple. He will cleanse the one built by the Christian peoples, Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 40 to 46, and reign from it for the next thousand years.

You predilection for making wild and unsupported claims about future events, makes anything you post to be suspect and likely to be wrong.

Try Zechariah 14, and the promise that no stone would be left unturned.

 

[Timtofly]

Not arguing against that. Its prophetic purpose will be served when the antichrist commits the AOD in it.

No one will sit in the OT style temple. You claim it will be built. Satan sits in the temple of Christ with a glorious throne in it. Matthew 25:31-32. That temple is not destroyed and will be cleansed again after the 42 months.

 

[robycop3]

No one will sit in the OT style temple. You claim it will be built. Satan sits in the temple of Christ with a glorious throne in it. Matthew 25:31-32. That temple is not destroyed and will be cleansed again after the 42 months.

Oh, REALLY? Where's any supporting Scripture ?

 

[Jipsah]

Aint made up; it's entirely Scriptural, unlike your pret bunk.

All "Scriptural", oh yeah. Usual proof text snippets pinned to a cork board with yarn running from one to another to connect them in such a way as to sort of support the doctrine you'd already been handed pre-chewed by the Lindseyites who haunt Baptist HQ in Nashville and the Dallas Theological Seminary. It was bunk then and it's still bunk now. OLd Hal thought a generation was 40 years back in the 70s. How long's it gonna have to be now? I think it's up to a century innit? Reckon they'll stick another hunnerd on just for safety's sake?

 

[parousia70]

Reckon they'll stick another hunnerd on just for safety's sake?

Futurism: Dillegently Moving the Golaposts since 1844.

 

[rwb]

Revelation 13 is not talking about every time in the last 1992 years. It is the last 42 months of Adam's punishment. It is the specific AoD Jesus warned about at the time of the Second Coming. Jesus Himself will be on earth with the angels to separate the sheep and goats, the wheat and tares, but that is after the church is removed. The church has nothing to with the final harvest. Do you not see that the church leaves when Jesus arrives? After the church is gone, then and only then will the final harvest start.

Prove what you assume???

 

[rwb]

Daniel 8:He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

Daniel 9:27Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

Daniel 11:31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
Now, we know this occurred in the 160s BC, done by Antiochus Epiphanes & crew. And here we see Jesus mentions it. Since it was already done before that time, Jesus was referring to a similar event, which didn't occur in the old temple.

Matt. 24:“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

Daniel's prophesy is fulfilled through the advent of the promised Messiah coming to earth. All that Daniel prophesied concerning Christ' coming is being fulfilled in this age of the Messiah, the Day of the Lord. And it will be finished when Christ comes again on the last day of this age called the Day of the Lord. You're trying to find a way to force another literal ONE thousand years into this age after Christ returns the second time. But there will be no more time one seventh angel begins to sound and time shall be no more.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[rwb]

Yes, it DOES, in 2 Thess. 2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Here is the pressing subject matter that Paul addresses to the Thessalonian Church. Since liars (antichrists) were among them and deceived some into believing Christ had already returned and left them behind, Paul sent words to comfort the saints, telling them the Lord had not come, that they must patiently await His coming again. And that certain things would come before the Lord returned the second time.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (KJV) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 (KJV) For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

Paul assures the saints those who have already died will return with Christ and then whoever is alive in Christ at that time will be caught up to meet Christ and the returning saints in the air when He descends from heaven with the sounding of the trump of God. The dead in Christ will be caught up first then those living caught up with them forever.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The day of the Lord would not come as a thief in the night for those who are looking for His coming again. But for those in darkness that day will come with DESTRUCTION with NO ESCAPE.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-5 (KJV) But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Paul tells us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels IN FLAMING FIRE taking vengeance on them that do not know God, who will be PUNISHED with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION but glorified in His saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 (KJV) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

You quote the following passage of Scripture but left out the timing for these verses is "by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto Him". Paul says don't believe those who tell you the day of Christ is at hand because there will first be a falling away and the man of sin is revealed as the son of perdition (antichrists). Paul had already warned them of this. Because the mystery of iniquity was already at work among them and would be until the Church is taken up with the Lord, and then the wicked will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 (KJV) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[robycop3]

All "Scriptural", oh yeah. Usual proof text snippets pinned to a cork board with yarn running from one to another to connect them in such a way as to sort of support the doctrine you'd already been handed pre-chewed by the Lindseyites who haunt Baptist HQ in Nashville and the Dallas Theological Seminary. It was bunk then and it's still bunk now. OLd Hal thought a generation was 40 years back in the 70s. How long's it gonna have to be now? I think it's up to a century innit? Reckon they'll stick another hunnerd on just for safety's sake?

No matter whatcha say-the eschatological events simply haven't yet occurred. You cannot prove otherwise.

 

[robycop3]

Daniel's prophesy is fulfilled through the advent of the promised Messiah coming to earth. All that Daniel prophesied concerning Christ' coming is being fulfilled in this age of the Messiah, the Day of the Lord. And it will be finished when Christ comes again on the last day of this age called the Day of the Lord. You're trying to find a way to force another literal ONE thousand years into this age after Christ returns the second time. But there will be no more time one seventh angel begins to sound and time shall be no more.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The eschatological events simply haven't happened yet.

 

[robycop3]

Here is the pressing subject matter that Paul addresses to the Thessalonian Church. Since liars (antichrists) were among them and deceived some into believing Christ had already returned and left them behind, Paul sent words to comfort the saints, telling them the Lord had not come, that they must patiently await His coming again. And that certain things would come before the Lord returned the second time.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (KJV) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 (KJV) For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

Paul assures the saints those who have already died will return with Christ and then whoever is alive in Christ at that time will be caught up to meet Christ and the returning saints in the air when He descends from heaven with the sounding of the trump of God. The dead in Christ will be caught up first then those living caught up with them forever.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The day of the Lord would not come as a thief in the night for those who are looking for His coming again. But for those in darkness that day will come with DESTRUCTION with NO ESCAPE.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-5 (KJV) But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Paul tells us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels IN FLAMING FIRE taking vengeance on them that do not know God, who will be PUNISHED with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION but glorified in His saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 (KJV) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

You quote the following passage of Scripture but left out the timing for these verses is "by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto Him". Paul says don't believe those who tell you the day of Christ is at hand because there will first be a falling away and the man of sin is revealed as the son of perdition (antichrists). Paul had already warned them of this. Because the mystery of iniquity was already at work among them and would be until the Church is taken up with the Lord, and then the wicked will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 (KJV) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The man of sin (the beast, the antichrist) hasn't yet come.

 

[rwb]

The eschatological events simply haven't happened yet.

Like I already said "All that Daniel prophesied concerning Christ' coming is being fulfilled in this age of the Messiah, the Day of the Lord. And it will be finished when Christ comes again on the last day of this age called the Day of the Lord." Can you point to any Old Testament prophet who spoke of the Day of the Lord coming AGAIN to usher in another one thousand years of time after Christ comes?

 

[rwb]

The man of sin (the beast, the antichrist) hasn't yet come.

Really? Who are tares in the church, and who are wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophets, workers of iniquity? Aren't they being influenced by the spirit and power of the air? Are you denying these children of disobedience have always been in the church on earth and work through the power of Satan? Why warn the Church of this evil presence if the man of sin being many has not yet come? John disagrees with you!

Ephesians 2:2 (KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

1 John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[DavidPT]

Really? Who are tares in the church, and who are wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophets, workers of iniquity? Aren't they being influenced by the spirit and power of the air? Are you denying these children of disobedience have always been in the church on earth and work through the power of Satan? Why warn the Church of this evil presence if the man of sin being many has not yet come? John disagrees with you!

Ephesians 2:2 (KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

1 John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

I agree with you to a degree.

A cpl of things we know, or should know if we don't, are the following.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


The first thing to note, when John saw these visions it was post that of the death and resurrection of Christ. Which could mean he saw these visions before 70 AD or after 70 AD. But that is irrelavant since the point is that he saw these visions post the death and resurrection of Christ. When he saw these visions, one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, informed him that the beast is not, meaning when John was still alive at the time. It only stands to reason that this beast's 42 month reign is not applicable when the beast 'was' and 'is not', but is only applicable once the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit.

The question is, when does the beast ascend out of the pit? Has it already ascended out of the pit? If yes, when, and what proves it? Keeping in mind, obviously when it 'is not', this means it is in the pit at the time. When John saw these visions the beast was in the pit at the time, therefore, it's 42 month reign was not already in progress and won't be in progress until this is fulfilled first---shall ascend out of the bottomless pit(Revelation 17:8).

As to Revelation 17:8---'was' means before it is in the pit---' is not' means it is in the pit---'shall ascend out of the bottomless pit' means it is no longer in the pit once it does this. Only the latter can be involving it's 42 month reign.