Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[3 Resurrections]

Does the animal life, trees and planets die or decay? Of course! Is this present earth decaying?

Animal death, insect death, seasonal decay of plants, etc. even on an organic level are all part of the cycles of the food chain that God set up to begin with that He considered "good and very good". If these cycles did not occur naturally, Adam and Eve would have been totally inundated with exponentially-overwhelming multiplication of these elements before a week had gone by. There was a balance between these that God ordained from the beginning so that one species would be supported by another and so on down the food chain to the atomic level. Animal death does not carry the "baggage" that comes with human death, since animal life was not created in God's own image. If death of ALL kinds was a result of sin, then even digestion of food could not possibly take place in the originally-sinless couple.

This present globe is designed to be inhabited throughout the ages of eternity. God "created it not in vain. He formed it to be inhabited." The planet is NOT on the way out of existence and in need of redemption. The entire globe was never promised annihilation by fire. That was a prophecy in 2 Peter 3:10 that would come specifically on the land of Israel - "the earth" - (TES GES). This "tes ges" term is not the same as the Greek word used for the globe. Fire did come to destroy the land of Israel and the works in it: namely, the cities of Israel, the temple, and the city of Jerusalem in particular where the Lake of Fire was located in the AD 70 era.

As for the removal of the curse upon the ground, that was the curse on the ground given to Adam back in Genesis 3:17 which God removed after Noah left the ark. God promised Himself that this curse on the ground in Adam's fall was lifted, NEITHER would He destroy the world and all of its inhabitants by a flood anymore. This is TWO promises, one of which removed the curse upon the ground which God pronounced at Adam's fall.

I repeat: this planet doesn't need to be "glorified". Glorification is for HUMANS in the bodily resurrection process.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Animal death, insect death, seasonal decay of plants, etc. even on an organic level are all part of the cycles of the food chain that God set up to begin with that He considered "good and very good". If these cycles did not occur naturally, Adam and Eve would have been totally inundated with exponentially-overwhelming multiplication of these elements before a week had gone by. There was a balance between these that God ordained from the beginning so that one species would be supported by another and so on down the food chain to the atomic level. Animal death does not carry the "baggage" that comes with human death, since animal life was not created in God's own image. If death of ALL kinds was a result of sin, then even digestion of food could not possibly take place in the originally-sinless couple.

This present globe is designed to be inhabited throughout the ages of eternity. God "created it not in vain. He formed it to be inhabited." The planet is NOT on the way out of existence and in need of redemption. The entire globe was never promised annihilation by fire. That was a prophecy in 2 Peter 3:10 that would come specifically on the land of Israel - "the earth" - (TES GES). This "tes ges" term is not the same as the Greek word used for the globe. Fire did come to destroy the land of Israel and the works in it: namely, the cities of Israel, the temple, and the city of Jerusalem in particular where the Lake of Fire was located in the AD 70 era.

As for the removal of the curse upon the ground, that was the curse on the ground given to Adam back in Genesis 3:17 which God removed after Noah left the ark. God promised Himself that this curse on the ground in Adam's fall was lifted, NEITHER would He destroy the world and all of its inhabitants by a flood anymore. This is TWO promises, one of which removed the curse upon the ground which God pronounced at Adam's fall.

I repeat: this planet doesn't need to be "glorified". Glorification is for HUMANS in the bodily resurrection process.

Where was there death and decay before the Fall? Give us Scripture. You seem to be making it up as you go.

Address the biblical evidence that I presented re Noah instead of ducking around it and repeating the same error.

 

[sovereigngrace]

As for the removal of the curse upon the ground, that was the curse on the ground given to Adam back in Genesis 3:17 which God removed after Noah left the ark. God promised Himself that this curse on the ground in Adam's fall was lifted, NEITHER would He destroy the world and all of its inhabitants by a flood anymore. This is TWO promises, one of which removed the curse upon the ground which God pronounced at Adam's fall.

I repeat: this planet doesn't need to be "glorified". Glorification is for HUMANS in the bodily resurrection process.

It would be wiser if you leant more upon Scripture in your posts instead of your own opinions so that you would err less.

Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Where was there death and decay before the Fall? Give us Scripture. You seem to be making it up as you go.

For animals to eat before the fall involved the death of plant life and seeds in the digestive tracts of animals (Gen. 1:29). This is part of the natural process God designed as "very good". Marine life fed on other marine life organisms on down the food chain. A perfect Adam and Eve were sloughing off dead skin cells, growing nails and hair, passing digested waste, etc. All this involved decay of some kind as a natural biological process that God designed as perfect.

The "corruption" that would arise as an effect of sin was first of all spiritual death of the soul and separation from God, causing eventual death of the body entirely.

Address the biblical evidence that I presented re Noah instead of ducking around it and repeating the same error.

I did. Can't you see the TWO promises God made in Genesis 8:21? First of all, He said He would not again curse the ground (as in Genesis 3:17). Second, He said NEITHER would He again smite every living thing as He had done with the flood. That's TWO different things He promised - not just one.

 

[3 Resurrections]

It would be wiser if you leant upon Scripture in your posts instead of your own opinions so that you would less err.

Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

This was a curse pronounced upon disobedient Israel, for which offenses they went into captivity the first time under Babylon. When Isaiah wrote about "the earth", he was referring to the land of Israel under discussion here - not the globe at large. And Isaiah 24:6 is not the curse on the ground which God pronounced to Adam back in Genesis 3:17.

The "curse" in this case is the set of curses that Israel was under if they disobeyed the laws of God. I'm sure you remember the two mountains of blessing and cursing for those of the Exodus wanderings from which they were to recite both blessings and curses for themselves if they obeyed or disobeyed. Those curses came to rest upon the people of Israel who had flagrantly disobeyed the laws of their God with whom they had a covenant relationship.

 

[sovereigngrace]

For animals to eat before the fall involved the death of plant life and seeds in the digestive tracts of animals (Gen. 1:29). This is part of the natural process God designed as "very good". Marine life fed on other marine life organisms on down the food chain. A perfect Adam and Eve were sloughing off dead skin cells, growing nails and hair, passing digested waste, etc. All this involved decay of some kind as a natural biological process that God designed as perfect.

The "corruption" that would arise as an effect of sin was first of all spiritual death of the soul and separation from God, causing eventual death of the body entirely.

I did. Can't you see the TWO promises God made in Genesis 8:21? First of all, He said He would not again curse the ground (as in Genesis 3:17). Second, He said NEITHER would He again smite every living thing as He had done with the flood. That's TWO different things He promised - not just one.

You did not answer my questions. That is because you can't. You are avoiding the obvious.

There are three absolutes in the description of the fall in Genesis 3. Firstly, the Fall of man caused the fall of creation. Secondly, there is no mention or description in Genesis 1-3 (or anywhere else in the Bible) that there was any vestige of the bondage of corruption in creation before Adam’s fall.

There was nothing bad or corrupt in the created world at the beginning. There was no death, no decay, no suffering or pain to be found anywhere in God's perfect world. Man, and the animals, fed off the plant-life, something that in God’s eyes was not considered death. Genesis 1:29-31 confirms: “And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Eating animal meat was not sanctioned until after the flood. Genesis 9:1-4 says: “And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.”

After the flood, it seems like God lifted the restriction on eating animal meat, and gave “Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.” This is pretty clear.

Significantly, when creation is returned to the Edenic condition, being banished of every vestige of the curse, the herbs will again be the only source of nourishment. This is not construed by God as death. Revelation 22:2 says: “In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”

Thirdly, the announcement of the curse upon the ground was simply God’s ordained time to reveal this truth to fallen man. The fact there may have been a brief interval between the inception of this curse and the revelation of the same to man does not negate this truth.

Satan enjoyed no authority or dominion over creation at the beginning; therefore, he had no ability or power within himself to directly bring corruption upon the earth. Rather, Scripture carefully links the condition of the earth to the state and obedience of man.

The privilege of ruling over creation belonged to man alone. The devil knew that man held that privileged position in the form of Adam. We see this in Genesis 1:26-28: “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

From a positional perspective, man was installed as ruler of this world at the beginning. God delegated incredible authority to him over the animal life and “over all the earth.” The rule over the created was his has be allocation. To gain any influence over creation, the devil knew he had to attack the holder of that authority – Adam – and cause him to relinquish his favoured position. When the devil decided to attack, he came at him indirectly through his wife Eve.

Through sin and disobedience, Adam gave away his dominion over all creation. Adam’s transgression saw the introduction of corruption to the earth. Any authority Satan appropriated therefore came through man’s own failure and his abdication of his inheritance and responsibility. In short, if man had not fallen, creation would not have fallen.

 

[sovereigngrace]

This was a curse pronounced upon disobedient Israel, for which offenses they went into captivity the first time under Babylon. When Isaiah wrote about "the earth", he was referring to the land of Israel under discussion here - not the globe at large. And Isaiah 24:6 is not the curse on the ground which God pronounced to Adam back in Genesis 3:17.

The "curse" in this case is the set of curses that Israel was under if they disobeyed the laws of God. I'm sure you remember the two mountains of blessing and cursing for those of the Exodus wanderings from which they were to recite both blessings and curses for themselves if they obeyed or disobeyed. Those curses came to rest upon the people of Israel who had flagrantly disobeyed the laws of their God with whom they had a covenant relationship.

You really don't get it. It wouldn't matter what explicit Scripture I would present to you, you will explain it away to support your faulty thesis.

I am wasting my time engaging with you. Bye.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You really don't get it. It wouldn't matter what explicit Scripture I would present to you, you will explain it away to support your faulty thesis.

I'm sorry you consider Genesis 8:21 with God's removal of the curse on the ground my "thesis" and a waste of your time. It seems pretty obvious that God said He was removing that curse on the ground given back in Genesis 3:17, so it was no longer a curse waiting for removal in the years following Noah's emergence from the ark. Therefore that removed curse on the ground would no longer be a cause for the ground under our feet to be "groaning" as the planet waits to be "adopted" (?) by the redemption of our human bodies in a resurrection. Yours is a rather common interpretation of Romans 8:22, but that does not make it a correct one.

And if it seems I am "dodging" you or "avoiding" a subject, it is because I am simultaneously working on a custom order on my workroom table for a client and bouncing back and forth to the keyboard. Not all of us on this website are fortunate enough to be retired with all the time we wish available for posting online, even though we might like to address every point brought up.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I'm sorry you consider Genesis 8:21 with God's removal of the curse on the ground my "thesis" and a waste of your time. It seems pretty obvious that God said He was removing that curse on the ground given back in Genesis 3:17, so it was no longer a curse waiting for removal in the years following Noah's emergence from the ark. Therefore that removed curse on the ground would no longer be a cause for the ground under our feet to be "groaning" as the planet waits to be "adopted" (?) by the redemption of our human bodies in a resurrection. Yours is a rather common interpretation of Romans 8:22, but that does not make it a correct one.

And if it seems I am "dodging" you or "avoiding" a subject, it is because I am simultaneously working on a custom order on my workroom table for a client and bouncing back and forth to the keyboard. Not all of us on this website are fortunate enough to be retired with all the time we wish available for posting online, even though we might like to address every point brought up.

Fair enough. For the record, I am not retired. I am a full-time pastor.

You are avoiding the reality that the bondage of corruption is alive and well. It will continue until Jesus comes.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Fair enough. For the record, I am not retired. I am a full-time pastor.

Your are avoiding the reality that the bondage of corruption is alive and well. It will continue until Jesus comes.

Apologies - I didn't intend to imply that you yourself are retired; simply that many on this website have reached that milepost and have more discretionary time to devote to more detailed comments. One day I'll get there, Lord willing!

That "bondage of corruption" in the Romans 8:21 verse is upon those who are the children of God (not animals or the planet) who will be delivered from that bondage in a bodily resurrection when their dead physical bodies are given that "glorious liberty" by being changed to the incorruptible and immortal.

Christ did not come to sacrifice Himself to give redemption to animals or the planet. A kinsman-redeemer must be one of the same kind as those He is representing. This rule is found in Hebrews 2:14-18. Christ would have had to come as an angel to represent the cause of angels; or as an animal in order to redeem animals. But Christ did not have to take up the redemption of animals' bodies - freeing them from death - because they have no soul as mankind does that can be charged with the guilt of sin. "The SOUL that sinneth, it shall die."

The life of animals, insects, marine organisms, and vegetation, etc. was not created inherently immortal. When God takes away their breath, they die, and return unto the earth. Any time fallen mankind has tried to interfere on a large scale with controlling or expanding the numbers of certain animal species, it has tended to create problems of another variety that crop up as a result. That is because God has designed from the very beginning natural cycles of food chain inter-dependence all the way down to the cellular level that keeps a balance from one species to another.

 

[Berean Tim]

Then please tell me what did happen in 70AD, and why?

The Temple was destroyed. It no longer was God's house, we are the Temple

 

[sovereigngrace]

Apologies - I didn't intend to imply that you yourself are retired; simply that many on this website have reached that milepost and have more discretionary time to devote to more detailed comments. One day I'll get there, Lord willing!

That "bondage of corruption" in the Romans 8:21 verse is upon those who are the children of God (not animals or the planet) who will be delivered from that bondage in a bodily resurrection when their dead physical bodies are given that "glorious liberty" by being changed to the incorruptible and immortal.

Christ did not come to sacrifice Himself to give redemption to animals or the planet. A kinsman-redeemer must be one of the same kind as those He is representing. This rule is found in Hebrews 2:14-18. Christ would have had to come as an angel to represent the cause of angels; or as an animal in order to redeem animals. But Christ did not have to take up the redemption of animals' bodies - freeing them from death - because they have no soul as mankind does that can be charged with the guilt of sin. "The SOUL that sinneth, it shall die."

The life of animals, insects, marine organisms, and vegetation, etc. was not created inherently immortal. When God takes away their breath, they die, and return unto the earth. Any time fallen mankind has tried to interfere on a large scale with controlling or expanding the numbers of certain animal species, it has tended to create problems of another variety that crop up as a result. That is because God has designed from the very beginning natural cycles of food chain inter-dependence all the way down to the cellular level that keeps a balance from one species to another.

This earth is depicted in Scripture as gradually decaying to such a stage that it needs replaced. The surface of this earth is likened unto a well-worn overcoat that needs replaced with a brand-new spotless garment. This is shown to occur at the second coming. Christ is not going to replace the current tattered coat with another decayed coat, as many imagine, with their faulty theology. No! But rather a new perfected garment. Death and decay will soon come to an end. But this does not negate the continued existence of the same the earth. It will be an ongoing trophy of God's glorious regenerational renewal.

Psalm 102:25-27 predicts, “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.”

Isaiah 51:6 also says, “Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.”

Hebrews 1:10-12 tells us, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish [Gr. apollumi]; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old [Gr. palaioo] as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed [Gr. allasso]: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail."

These passages confirm the reality of the ongoing existence of the bondage of corruption at the moment. This will all change when Jesus comes. Comparing this earth to a fading and deteriorating garment, the writer tells us that the current heavens and earth is waxing old. The Greek word employed here for “wax old” is palaioo which means worn out, decaying or to declare obsolete.

To “perish” here equates to ‘waxing old’ and necessitates them to “be changed.”

The second coming is all-consummating and ushers in the complete end of all things old/temporal and wicked and introduces the beginning of all things new/eternal and righteous. The second coming witnesses the total destruction of the world/wicked and a general resurrection/judgement. The wicked and the righteous are judged in total and that each receives their eternal destiny at that time. The conflagration that occurs here coincides with the replacement of this corrupt sin-cursed world with a new earth and an eternally righteous state.

This change is evidently seismic. It is so drastic that it will be as if the earth was annihilated and replaced by another earth. That is because the destructive and debilitating curse of corruption is finally and eternally purged by fire from the globe. Like the repentant sinner, this earth has received its emersion in water, it is now awaiting its baptism of fire.

Genesis 4:12-13 tells us: “When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.”

When Cain sinned, his land stopped producing a bountiful harvest it had previously been producing. This confirms the linkage between man and planet earth. Thousands of years of rebellion has obviously taken a toll on the land.

 

[Jipsah]

What about Titus?

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Temple was destroyed. It no longer was God's house, we are the Temple

The temple (representing the people of the Old Testament Congregation as stones of the buildings) was already destroyed along with Christ's death and He REBUILT it in three days where Christ is NOW a chief cornerstone with Elects of New Testament as builders of that building! The Pentecost came and the call for Great Commission was ALREADY given to the Church in 33AD. No need to wait for 70AD when you prefer to believe that the physical temple must fall to fit your flawed doctrine! Sigh! You totally missed the point Christ talked about!

 

[TribulationSigns]

What about Titus?

What about him? Christ said nothing about him in his prophecies.

 

[claninja]

Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled [Gr. sunteleō, meaning to end, finish or complete]?

Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming [Gr. parousia], and of the end [Gr. sunteleia, meaning entire completion, or consummation] of the world [Gr. aiōn age]?”

The unindoctrinated Bible student should have no difficulty in understanding the meaning and weightiness of the phrases/events “the beginning” and “the end.” That is because they actually mean what they say. These expressions are often used on their own throughout Scripture because the Holy Spirit evidently expects the believer to take God literally at His Word and accept these plain and obvious statements at face value.

Whether one is reading a book, watching a movie, or observing a ball-game, the concept of “the beginning” and “the end” of something is too obvious to even debate or explain. Hello! It is as clear as clear can be. We are talking about basic 101 comprehension.

To fully understand “the end” it is important to be fully informed about “the beginning.” We need to start off by realizing that one is the complete antithesis of the other.

What the “end” is, must be determined from the context of the passage. The context is the destruction of the temple.

This can be confirmed by looking at the parallel accounts from the Luke and Mark, which replace “what is the SIGN of your coming and end of the age?” with “what is the the SIGN these things are accomplished?”.

Asking “what is the sign of your coming and end of the age?” is the same thing as asking “what is the sign these things will be accomplished?” Based on using parallel accounts.

It can be further confirmed that the first century authors associated the coming of Christ with the end of the temple practices by looking at the epistle to the hebrews, whose author stated BOTH the old covenant was “near” to vanishing and the coming of Christ was “in a little while and without delay”.

 

[seekingHiswisdom]

The Temple was destroyed. It no longer was God's house, we are the Temple

Yep,
1 Cor 3:16 nasb95 "16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"

Fact : The temple was no longer God's abode once the veil was torn on crucifixion day. 40 years before the destruction in 70AD

We know Hebrews 9:1-9 tells us that in the temple a veil separated the Holy of Holies—the earthly dwelling place of God's presence—from the rest of the temple where men dwelt. Signifying that man was separated from God by sin as we see in Isaiah 59: 2But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

When Jesus died on the cross, sheading his blood as our sacrificial lamb and God tore the veil in the temple as Jesus died..... that tells us that ... as simply as this can be said... that the faithful (THAT WOULD BE US) has a direct mediator on our behalf and that a separation from God and the people was now open to all that would accept Him.

Sin had been blocking our way to God. Jesus removed that obstacle and cleared the way, so that we could come into the presence of God at any time, anywhere, and without going through a priest or any other intermediary.

This is the most concise understandable answer of what the veil of the temple being torn symbolized.

There does remain a question or so as to the destruction of the actual temple in 70AD.

If you read enough of Josephus writings you will come to understand that by appearances originally it appeared as if the temple was not a target, and was somewhat being protected and the destructive fire was suggested as a possible supernatural accomplishment.

Causes of the Temple's Destruction

Comment
We have here all three possible explanations for the Temple destruction: that it was a chance act of war, that it was a Divine response to the murderous actions of the seditious party, or that it was fated according to some vast and mysterious plan.
The aspect of fate is stated by Josephus in saying that "God for certain long ago doomed it to the fire," and then pointing out that the Second Temple was set on fire by the Romans on the same day that the First Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. (Thackeray notes that this date accords with Jeremiah 53:12 but not with the seventh of Av in 2 Kings 25:8, and that Jewish tradition memorializes both on the Ninth of Av.) This would seem to indicate a design greater than a direct response to freely committed sin. This was, says Josephus, "according to the revolution of the ages" -- again, not due to specific human actions.
Josephus says rather directly that is was the Lord who started the flames by directing the activity of the anonymous Roman soldier. For this soldier set the fire "without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking," as though he had the authority to do what he was doing. When he put the fire to the golden window he was "being hurried on by a certain divine fury." The Greek is daimnoioi horme tini chromenos, which can be translated also as in Thackeray's version "moved by some supernatural impulse." The soldier is an agent of heaven, and his impulsive attack may reflect divine anger at the people for their pollution of the Temple. The emotional "fury" is different from the cool, mathematical "revolution of the ages" that calendrically pre-determined the fate of the Temple. Josephus has jumped from one explanation to the other. Can they be joined into one?

Scroll down through the writing to the Temple is set on fire area and read the copy in full.

What is not certain is if the veil was repaired after it being torn, and if God still inhabited the Holy of Holies... or was it mere assumption on the part of the Jews that He would.

So... while we ARE the temple of God and the Spirit dwells in us collectively and individually .... for whatever reason God had the temple go on for 40 years after the opening up of the Holy of Holies on crucifixion day......

 

[sovereigngrace]

What the “end” is, must be determined from the context of the passage. The context is the destruction of the temple.

This can be confirmed by looking at the parallel accounts from the Luke and Mark, which replace “what is the SIGN of your coming and end of the age?” with “what is the the SIGN these things are accomplished?”.

Asking “what is the sign of your coming and end of the age?” is the same thing as asking “what is the sign these things will be accomplished?” Based on using parallel accounts.

It can be further confirmed that the first century authors associated the coming of Christ with the end of the temple practices by looking at the epistle to the hebrews, whose author stated BOTH the old covenant was “near” to vanishing and the coming of Christ was “in a little while and without delay”.

No so. That is what you believe or have been taught but that is not what it says. Christ spoke about 2 events in Matthew 24. The disciples asked Him to explain those 2 events, and when they would happen. Christ answered those 2 questions about 2 events.

Many Bible students (including Preterists and Premillennialists) dive into Matthew 24 without recognizing the intro to Christ's comments in Matthew 23. There He talks about 2 events - AD70 and His climactic return at the end of time.

Jesus said in Matthew 23:37–39: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

Jesus, first of all, speaks about the destruction of the temple in AD70, as a result of Israel's unbelief. He then talks about a future climactic day in the future when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Here were two key events that would happen in the then future. The disciples were obviously inquisitive as to when these would happen. They then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words. Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “Tell us, when shall these things be?”
2. “and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end (sunteleías, meaning completion, or consummation) of the world (age)?”

This proves that the disciples were enquiring about the realization of these two aforementioned days. They wanted to know about their fulfillment. Sadly, Preterists and Premillennialists each ignore the other's events relating to the past and the future. Both are therefore missing the context and meaning. The context proves that Israel will be forced to cry "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" at Christ's future "parousia," at "the end of the age.”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming. Jesus addresses the greatest event first. He talks about the trying events that will precede His glorious return, and then reassures: “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” This introductory part pertaining to the intra-Advent period relates to Matthew 24:4-14. Mark 13:5-13 and Luke 21:8-19 parallels.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Isaiah 51:6 also says, “Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.”

I'm glad you included this Isaiah text in your descriptions of a new heavens and a new earth. However, try going just a little bit further in that same chapter to understand exactly what God was referring to when He spoke of "the heavens and the earth". It wasn't a physical change in the composition of the material cosmos that He was referring to in this particular context.

"And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people." This is not speaking of the establishment of the physical heavens and earth during Creation week, but the establishment of Zion as the people of God.

We are currently in this new heavens and new earth at present. The believers had already come to this "Zion - the city of the living God" (Hebrews 12:22). We don't have to wait for this NHNE in the future, because Hebrews 12:26-28 told us exactly when the heavens and the earth were to be shaken and removed in the past. Hebrews 12:26-27 said that "NOW he hath promised, saying Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore, we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire."

That word "NOW" was speaking of the time in which Hebrews was written - not in our future. The believers of that time were then receiving a kingdom which could not be shaken in the coming disasters for the nation of Israel. The earth (tes ges - the land of Israel) and the heavens were soon going to be shaken and removed by God's "consuming fire". That was an old "heavens and earth" reality in the nation of Israel. Those old "heavens and earth" composed an obsolete, defunct physical temple system that was dead and needed to be physically burned up so that these would not exist any more in feeble, idolatrous competition with Christ's superior New Covenant worship system He had already established.

Hebrews 1:10-12 tells us, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish [Gr. apollumi]; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old [Gr. palaioo] as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed [Gr. allasso]: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail."

These passages confirm the reality of the ongoing existence of the bondage of corruption at the moment. This will all change when Jesus comes. Comparing this earth to a fading and deteriorating garment, the writer tells us that the current heavens and earth is waxing old. The Greek word employed here for “wax old” is palaioo which means worn out, decaying or to declare obsolete.

To “perish” here equates to ‘waxing old’ and necessitates them to “be changed.”

This change has already occurred. Hebrews wrote that those changed conditions it was speaking of were then coming (Hebrews 2:5). The heavens and earth did "perish" and were "changed" when the New Heavens and the New Earth were manifested back then after the AD 70 era.

The NHNE conditions according to Isaiah 65:20 and Revelation 22:15 would still include the presence of sinners. Isaiah's conditions for the NHNE listed the birth of children, death of both the righteous and the sinner, planting of crops, harvesting and eating, building houses, prayers to God, etc. As believers, formerly-alienated Gentiles and Jews are represented by the unclean animals - such as the wolf and the lion - dwelling amicably with the clean animals - the lamb and the bullock in this NHNE reality.

We are not waiting for this NHNE - it's a present reality.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I'm glad you included this Isaiah text in your descriptions of a new heavens and a new earth. However, try going just a little bit further in that same chapter to understand exactly what God was referring to when He spoke of "the heavens and the earth". It wasn't a physical change in the composition of the material cosmos that He was referring to in this particular context.

"And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people." This is not speaking of the establishment of the physical heavens and earth during Creation week, but the establishment of Zion as the people of God.

We are currently in this new heavens and new earth at present. The believers had already come to this "Zion - the city of the living God" (Hebrews 12:22). We don't have to wait for this NHNE in the future, because Hebrews 12:26-28 told us exactly when the heavens and the earth were to be shaken and removed in the past. Hebrews 12:26-27 said that "NOW he hath promised, saying Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore, we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire."

That word "NOW" was speaking of the time in which Hebrews was written - not in our future. The believers of that time were then receiving a kingdom which could not be shaken in the coming disasters for the nation of Israel. The earth (tes ges - the land of Israel) and the heavens were soon going to be shaken and removed by God's "consuming fire". That was an old "heavens and earth" reality in the nation of Israel. Those old "heavens and earth" composed of an obsolete, defunct physical temple system that was dead and needed to be physically burned up so that these would not exist any more in feeble, idolatrous competition with Christ's superior New Covenant worship system He had already established.


This change has already occurred. Hebrews wrote that those changed conditions it was speaking of were then coming (Hebrews 2:5). The heavens and earth did "perish" and were "changed" when the New Heavens and the New Earth were manifested back then after the AD 70 era.

The NHNE conditions according to Isaiah 65:20 and Revelation 22:15 would still include the presence of sinners. Isaiah's conditions for the NHNE listed the birth of children, death of both the righteous and the sinner, planting of crops, harvesting and eating, building houses, prayers to God, etc. As believers, formerly-alienated Gentiles and Jews (represented by the unclean animals - such as the wolf and the lion - dwelling amicably with the clean animals - the lamb and the bullock) in this NHNE reality.

We are not waiting for this NHNE - it's a present reality.

That is simply not true. The curse has not been lifted from man and creation. Men still die (Genesis 2:17). Man and the earth is still to be delivered from the bondage of corruption (Genesis 3:18). We still obtain our bread by the sweat of our brow (Genesis 3:18). Man still has to contend with thorns and thistles (Genesis 3:18). Women will still have travail in childbirth (Genesis 3:18).

• The second coming has not occurred.
• The glorification of the elect has not occurred.
• The end of the age has not occurred.
• The last day has not occurred.
• The old corrupt earth is still here.
• Creation has not been delivered from the bondage of corruption.
• The age to come has not arrived in all its perfect glory.
• The new heavens and new earth have not arrived.