Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

robycop3 · Oct 29, 2022

rwb said:
Paul is speaking to the Church at Thessalonia about what is happening in the Church, not the temple of old. According to Paul the man of sin, the son of perdition will be with or among believers in the temple of God, which Christians are.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

To 'sitteth' in the temple of God simply means he is with the body of Christ, the Church because the Church being Christians are the temple of God.

Sitteth is defined from the Greek word kathízō which means to seat down, i.e. set (figuratively, appoint); intransitively, to sit (down); figuratively, to settle (hover, dwell):—continue, set, sit (down), tarry.

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Apparently some among them are trying to say that Christ has either already come again and they missed being caught up in the air with Him, or that His coming again was imminent. Neither of which is true. So, Paul explains that the coming of our Lord and our gathering unto Him will not come until certain things first come to pass. Then the wicked will be revealed and will be destroyed with the brightness of His coming.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 (KJV) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10 (KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Also, the antichrist will have a statue of himself made, which will be set up in the temple the Jews will build, that the false prophet will supernaturally make speak. Satellite TV will broadcast events from there worldwide. The FP will begin to issue the marka the beast at the same time. (I believe the rapture will occur shortly before the AC comes to full power.)

Shortly afterward, the great trib will occur, with the seals, trumpets, & vials judgments occurring together in rapid succession. Shortly after Jesus ends those judgments lest all life on earth perish, He will return. There'll be no "battle of armageddon", as the beast's armies, gathered to try to fight Jesus, will be wiped out by His spoken word there.

rwb · Oct 29, 2022

robycop3 said:
I'm serious as a heart attack. Remember, Orthodox Jews still believe the Old Covenant is still in effect, & don't recognize Jesus as Messiah or Divine. They believe they have a duty to build a temple & re-institute animal sacrifices, etc.

Exactly! Today, this age, the Messianic era is the day for salvation. If the Orthodox Jews remain in darkness and unbelief and continue to cling to the Old Covenant Law, rejecting their Messiah, they will not be saved after Christ comes again. Why promote a doctrine for unbelieving Orthodox Jews that will lead them to damnation? It makes no sense! Christian Zionism is not a friend of Orthodox Jews! Instead of encouraging their error, why not tell them that returning to the Old, that Christ has already completely fulfilled will not save them, they MUST repent and turn to Christ, their promised Messiah to have everlasting life through Him. The Law will only lead them to utter destruction and damnation.

rwb · Oct 29, 2022

robycop3 said:
Yes. The original one was when Antiochus Epiphanes, the Seleucid ruler of Judea, entered the temple with some soldierd, set up a statue of Zeus in it, & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. The one mentioned by Jesus will be similar, except the antichrist will set up a statue of himself & stop all sacrifices.

You'll have to support your assumption with Scripture. He who alleges must prove.

rwb · Oct 29, 2022

robycop3 said:
He will sit in the new temple, declaring himself God, & have the false prophet issue the marka the beast.

This is not what the Bible teaches.

rwb · Oct 29, 2022

robycop3 said:
Also, the antichrist will have a statue of himself made, which will be set up in the temple the Jews will build, that the false prophet will supernaturally make speak. Satellite TV will broadcast events from there worldwide. The FP will begin to issue the marka the beast at the same time. (I believe the rapture will occur shortly before the AC comes to full power.)

Shortly afterward, the great trib will occur, with the seals, trumpets, & vials judgments occurring together in rapid succession. Shortly after Jesus ends those judgments lest all life on earth perish, He will return. There'll be no "battle of armageddon", as the beast's armies, gathered to try to fight Jesus, will be wiped out by His spoken word there.

You keep making these comments without verifying them from the Scriptures. Would you believe my biblical assumptions without verification from the Word of God? I would hope you would not! Neither do I believe just because you say it is so.

robycop3 · Oct 29, 2022

rwb said:
Exactly! Today, this age, the Messianic era is the day for salvation. If the Orthodox Jews remain in darkness and unbelief and continue to cling to the Old Covenant Law, rejecting their Messiah, they will not be saved after Christ comes again. Why promote a doctrine for unbelieving Orthodox Jews that will lead them to damnation? It makes no sense! Christian Zionism is not a friend of Orthodox Jews! Instead of encouraging their error, why not tell them that returning to the Old, that Christ has already completely fulfilled will not save them, they MUST repent and turn to Christ, their promised Messiah to have everlasting life through Him. The Law will only lead them to utter destruction and damnation.

Prophecy says the AOD will occur in the temple, so there must be a new temple built in Jerusalem. I'm not promoting their doctrine at all; just stating what's evidently gonna occur. Like it or not, it's gonna happen.

Timtofly · Oct 29, 2022

rwb said:
Please, it means to be part as though belonging to the body of Christ. But I've already shown this.

Satan being part of the church can never happen. Satan part of the apostate church is a fact. But not what this is talking about in Revelation nor 2 Thessalonians 2.

Are you denying that Satan can physically sit down?

Timtofly · Oct 29, 2022

rwb said:
No not the coming literal one thousand years you imagine. "That day" is referring to the second coming of Christ when the seventh trumpet begins to sound and time shall be no more. Once Christ returns there will not be another ONE thousand years of time on this earth, except of course in the minds of millennialists.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The 6 days come to an end. The 7th is about to start. You cannot change the narrative of Scripture. That day is the Second Coming. It ends, 1000 years later like the other 6 days ended after each one started.

Timtofly · Oct 29, 2022

robycop3 said:
The temple the Jews will build will be believed to be a temple of God by most of the world.

If they do build a temple, it will be destroyed at the Second Coming. Then Jesus will build His temple and throne in Jerusalem.

rwb · Oct 29, 2022

Timtofly said:
Satan being part of the church can never happen. Satan part of the apostate church is a fact. But not what this is talking about in Revelation nor 2 Thessalonians 2.

Are you denying that Satan can physically sit down?

Satan is present in the Church every time an unbeliever is there among the saints of God. Scripture has some interesting names for them like tares, and wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophets teaching doctrines of demons etc. Satan uses unbelievers to attack the Church. That has always been his M.O. from the beginning, and continues until Christ comes again to separate the wheat from the tares, or the sheep from the goats etc. Why would Satan be part of the apostate church? It is the body of Christ, believers whom Satan seeks to destroy, trying to keep the Kingdom of God from being complete. Because He knows when the Kingdom is complete his time is finished, and his utter destruction is at hand.

rwb · Oct 29, 2022

Timtofly said:
The 6 days come to an end. The 7th is about to start. You cannot change the narrative of Scripture. That day is the Second Coming. It ends, 1000 years later like the other 6 days ended after each one started.

Your doctrine is very strange and unbiblical. I suppose that's why you offer no supporting Scripture.

keras · Oct 29, 2022

Timtofly said:
If they do build a temple, it will be destroyed at the Second Coming. Then Jesus will build His temple and throne in Jerusalem.

Jesus does not destroy anything other than the armies of the Anti-Christ, at His Return. Even they are not destroyed, as such; but killed and as food for the carrion eaters.
Nowhere is it prophesied that Jesus would build a new Temple. He will cleanse the one built by the Christian peoples, Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 40 to 46, and reign from it for the next thousand years.

You predilection for making wild and unsupported claims about future events, makes anything you post to be suspect and likely to be wrong.

Jipsah · Oct 30, 2022

robycop3 said:
For the fulfillment of prophecies about the AOD.

Which are necessary to keep your made-up doctrine intact. BTW, how long is a futurist "generation" these days? You may have to expand it again here shortly.

Jipsah · Oct 30, 2022

rwb said:
You're surely not being serious??? To re-introduce the Mosaic Law after Christ has made the ultimate sacrifice and fulfilled all that is written in the Law and Prophets would most assuredly not be to the glory of God.

If you're using Ezekiel as evidence for a new temple you're gonna have to swallow the idea of the sacrifice of livestock that comes with it.

Jipsah · Oct 30, 2022

robycop3 said:
the antichrist will set up a statue of himself & stop all sacrifices.

YOu mean they haven't stopped?

Jipsah · Oct 30, 2022

Timtofly said:
Are you denying that Satan can physically sit down?

He may even to be able to huddle when it's really cold out.

Jipsah · Oct 30, 2022

robycop3 said:
Like it or not, it's gonna happen.

Already did. Temple desecrated. Temple destroyed. Sacrifice stopped. You say it didn't count. I say the goofy Rube Goldberg futurist doctrine doesn't count.

Timtofly · Oct 30, 2022

rwb said:
Satan is present in the Church every time an unbeliever is there among the saints of God. Scripture has some interesting names for them like tares, and wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophets teaching doctrines of demons etc. Satan uses unbelievers to attack the Church. That has always been his M.O. from the beginning, and continues until Christ comes again to separate the wheat from the tares, or the sheep from the goats etc. Why would Satan be part of the apostate church? It is the body of Christ, believers whom Satan seeks to destroy, trying to keep the Kingdom of God from being complete. Because He knows when the Kingdom is complete his time is finished, and his utter destruction is at hand.

Revelation 13 is not talking about every time in the last 1992 years. It is the last 42 months of Adam's punishment. It is the specific AoD Jesus warned about at the time of the Second Coming. Jesus Himself will be on earth with the angels to separate the sheep and goats, the wheat and tares, but that is after the church is removed. The church has nothing to with the final harvest. Do you not see that the church leaves when Jesus arrives? After the church is gone, then and only then will the final harvest start.

robycop3 · Oct 30, 2022

rwb said:
You'll have to support your assumption with Scripture. He who alleges must prove.

Daniel 8:He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

Daniel 9:27Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

Daniel 11:31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
Now, we know this occurred in the 160s BC, done by Antiochus Epiphanes & crew. And here we see Jesus mentions it. Since it was already done before that time, Jesus was referring to a similar event, which didn't occur in the old temple.

Matt. 24:“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

robycop3 · Oct 30, 2022

rwb said:
This is not what the Bible teaches.

Yes, it DOES, in 2 Thess. 2: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

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