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Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

keras

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And since Paul was no longer viewing the temple in a literal sense, why should we assume Jesus was still viewing the temple in a literal sense when He spoke about an AOD involving the holy place in Matthew 24:15
Jesus and Paul are both quite capable of talking about a Spiritual and a literal Temple.
We know that we Christians are the spiritual Temple of God for this Church age. No one disputes that.

What is disconcerting, is how Christian people like yourself reject the possibility of a future brick and mortar Temple, on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem.
We all are confident that Jesus will Return. What will He, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Return to? He came the first time into a lowly stable. Next time.........go figure!

No need to guess where He will reside and rule from, as many Prophesies clearly inform us. Zechariah 1:16, Isaiah 2:1-3, Isaiah 60:7, Zechariah 14:20-21
We Christian people will build the new Temple. Ezekiel 40 to 46, describes it and the operating instructions for the Temple of God.

So the pedantic and silly nonsense of the meaning of 'naos', is just a waste of forum space.
 
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DavidPT

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What is disconcerting, is how Christian people like yourself reject the possibility of a future brick and mortar Temple, on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem.
We all are confident that Jesus will Return. What will He, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Return to? He came the first time into a lowly stable. Next time.........go figure!

Keras, I'll put it to you like this. If and until I see with my own eyes that a 3rd temple is being built, and that after it is built, animal sacrificing resumes, only then will I admit that maybe I was wrong about this after all. But until I see that fulfilled first, in the meantime I'm going to continue assuming it won't be involving a literal rebuilt temple in the future. Plus, it needs to be built where the other one was located. I for sure can't see that ever happening if the Dome of the Rock is already occupying that particular piece of land.
 
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keras

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Keras, I'll put it to you like this. If and until I see with my own eyes that a 3rd temple is being built, and that after it is built, animal sacrificing resumes, only then will I admit that maybe I was wrong about this after all. But until I see that fulfilled first, in the meantime I'm going to continue assuming it won't be involving a literal rebuilt temple in the future. Plus, it needs to be built where the other one was located. I for sure can't see that ever happening if the Dome of the Rock is already occupying that particular piece of land.
Can you not see the many Prophesies that say there will be a new Temple?
It is in fact; illogical to think there won't be one. We build churches and cathedrals, don't we? They keep the hot sun and the rain off, if nothing else.

The Temple mount will be cleared, and the Muslim buildings destroyed on the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 24:10 & 13, Jeremiah 12:10-13, Micah 5:11

Haggai 2:9 The splendour of this latter House will be greater than of the former.....
The Second Temple was far from being greater than Solomons Temple.
 
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robycop3

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2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple(naos) of God, shewing himself that he is God.



Since Paul is the author, let's look at how he used 'the temple of God' in his other writings.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple(naos) of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple(naos) of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple(naos) of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


I'm assuming you at least agree that he isn't meaning a literal temple in these 3 verses above, right? This at least tells us that Paul is no longer viewing the temple of God in a literal sense. Why should we assume he is still viewing the temple of God in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 in a literal sense? Why should we think Paul's mindset at the time involved the following. That he was expecting a 3rd temple to get built sometime in the future, and that the AC will sit in it, and that animal sacrificing would resume, then be put to end yet again, this time via the AC. Where does it even mention animal sacrificing in 2 Thessalonians 2? Where does it even mention Jerusalem in that chapter?

And since Paul was no longer viewing the temple in a literal sense, why should we assume Jesus was still viewing the temple in a literal sense when He spoke about an AOD involving the holy place in Matthew 24:15 in His far future of Him having predicted that? If 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is involving the holy place recorded in Matthew 24:15, and surely it is, and that Paul could grasp that it doesn't involve a literal temple, why should we think Christ couldn't grasp that as well, therefore, Jesus was meaning a literal temple pertaining to the holy place since He was unable to grasp a literal temple is not meant, but Paul could? Thus contradicting how Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 viewed this temple.

If you still think I'm wrong and that you are right, and I'm certain you do, then point out something in 2 Thessalonians 2 that supports that verse 4 involves animal sacrificing. Point out something in 2 Thessalonians 2 that supports that verse 4 involves Jerusalem in the middle east.
There's nothing to indicate anything but a literal temple, especially since the first AOD was a literal event in a literal temple, and Jesus said, in Matt. 24: 15, “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

While Antiochus set up a statue of Zeus in the temple, the beast will set up a statue of himself, as he won't recognize any other god but himself. That's the AOD Jesus mentioned.
 
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robycop3

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Then the Temple is still there, and sacrifice going on apace, at least in the HF universe. What happens if our Lord returns before your doctrinal requirements are met? Do you reject the doctrine, or the Lord?
The Jews are gonna build a new temple. We've gone over this before.
 
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keras

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The Jews are gonna build a new temple. We've gone over this before.
The blatant disregard for the many Prophesies which plainly describe the building and the functions of a new Temple in the end times and existing for the Millennium, is breathtakingly shocking to see on a Christian forum.
If God wants a Temple; who opposes it?

AND it won't be the Jews who will build the new Temple. It will be people from far away, Zechariah 6:15, the Christian peoples, living in all of the holy Land, after the Lord has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Zephaniah 1:14-18
 
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Timtofly

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The blatant disregard for the many Prophesies which plainly describe the building and the functions of a new Temple in the end times and existing for the Millennium, is breathtakingly shocking to see on a Christian forum.
If God wants a Temple; who opposes it?

AND it won't be the Jews who will build the new Temple. It will be people from far away, Zechariah 6:15, the Christian peoples, living in all of the holy Land, after the Lord has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Zephaniah 1:14-18
The angels are from a far away place and they come to earth at the 6th Seal, the Second Coming.

They could build it fairly quickly, it would seem.
 
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Oseas

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Can you not see the many Prophesies that say there will be a new Temple?
It is in fact; illogical to think there won't be one. We build churches and cathedrals, don't we? They keep the hot sun and the rain off, if nothing else.

The Temple mount will be cleared, and the Muslim buildings destroyed on the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 24:10 & 13, Jeremiah 12:10-13, Micah 5:11

Haggai 2:9 The splendour of this latter House will be greater than of the former.....
The Second Temple was far from being greater than Solomons Temple.

Will the Jews build a Third Temple? | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)
Will the Jews build a Third Temple?
No.

#4Oseas3, Feb 9, 2020
  1. Authors and historytelers have focused in the restoration of the modern State of Israel, and through their imaginations and false predictions they sold unto their readers the false idea of the rebuild of the temple, besides foolish conceptions and and false prophecies about Jerusalem, whose city is SPIRITUALLY called Sodom and Egypt. By the way, Jerusalem is full or IS infested of idolatries and sorcery as always was, and as a harlot is called Aolibah by the LORD. Jeremiah 23:v.4

    The commentator involved Trump in the subject, ok, actually he is the most powerful man of the earth in the current time, but he knows not who Trump is. Trump is the horserider described in Revelation 6:v.3-4.

    Now, when the Beast from the earth rise up out in Jerusalem not so far from these days, the Beast like a lamb, but speak as a Dragon, in fact a FALSE lamb, a false messiah, an esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist messiah of the Jews, this MAN will be more powerful than the Trump. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    Every things, yeah, every things that are being doing and will be done by the powerful MEN of the nations, like Trump, for example, they will pave the way for the manifestation of the false messiah in Jerusalem, Who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Then will be established the Abomination of Desolation for 1.290 days. By the way, he was born in Jerusalem decades ago, he lives in Jerusalem, his hometown.

    And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    The mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way, then shall the Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

    He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from above is above all. John 3:v.31
  2. #18 Oseas3, Feb 10, 2020 - Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
5 perfectly Red Heifers sent to Israel from Texas. | Christian Forums
There's no Temple in this current time, neither there will be. What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, the invisible GOD. In fact, only JESUS is visible and can manifest himself in person, as GOD.

Actually, there is an evil and disguised / furtive spirit intending to give some veracity to the lies regardings rebuilding of the temple and sacrifice of red heifers. It's a satanic fake, it's chaff, it's tares. There's no Temple, neither there will be, NEVER. JESUS said: Revelation 11:v.2:
2 But the COURT which is WITHOUT the Temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they -the Gentiles- tread under foot forty and two months-1260 days. When will this prophecy be fulfilled LITERALLY? It will be fulfilled when the false messiah of the Jews gives his Power, and his THRONE - IN JERUSALEM-, and great Autority, to the GENTILE Beast of Sea, as follow: Revelation 13:v.1-2 and 11-13:-
v.1 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a(MAN) Beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the NAME of blasphemy.
v.2 - And the...dragon-the(MAN)Beast of the earth-gave him(gave to the MAN Beast of sea) his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.

v.11 - And I beheld another(MAN)Beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb(a false lamb, a false messiah-John 5:v.43-47), and he spake as a Dragon.
v.12 - And he exerciseth all the power of the first(MAN)Beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first(MAN)Beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
v.13 - And he(the MAN Beast of the earth,the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah)- doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. (NOTE: The Beast of the earth, esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah is spiritist)

That said, THERE WILL BE TWO RELIGIOUS AND SATANIC BEASTS on the Earth in near future, and both Beasts-one Gentile and another Jewish-will build a religious and SATANIC Empire- Catholicism and Judaism-iron and clay-then will fulfil LITERALLY Revelation 11:v.2 - the COURT which is WITHOUT the temple will be given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months -1260 days. In the other hands, the LAST WEEK Daniel 9:v.27 will fulfill LITERALLY, the Beast of sea will be enthroned in JERUSALEM and will rule the FIRST HALF of the week-3 1/2 years, and the holy city shall they-the Gentiles- tread under foot forty and two months-1260 days. And with the start of the 2nd half of the last week that will be ruled by the ruthless false messiah(Revelation 13:v.11-18), the the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION will be started and will last 1290 days-Daniel 12:v.11.

Daniel 12:v.12
- Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. -the day 1335 - Yeah, day 1335, the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, Unspeakable day, the day 1335. Hallelujaaah!!!

My post #16
GET READY
What will really happen in near future is the manifestation of the RED DRAGON, the main guide of a religious and satanic system, in fact a religious MONSTER having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his TAIL will draw/drag the third part of the stars of heaven (apostate Christians), and will cast them from heaven to the earth (heaven has nothing to do with sky, the physical space of Universe-Try to understand and interpret Ephesians 1:v.3 and Philippians 3:v.20-21.)

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net )

May the Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
 
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robycop3

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The Jews will build a new temple in Jerusalem. Remember, Paul said the man of sin will sit in the temple declaring he is God. And that didn'e occur in the old temple. Plus, the AOD mentioned by Jesus didn't occur in it, either, so there must be a temple or the AOD to occur in.
 
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DavidPT

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The Jews will build a new temple in Jerusalem. Remember, Paul said the man of sin will sit in the temple declaring he is God. And that didn'e occur in the old temple. Plus, the AOD mentioned by Jesus didn't occur in it, either, so there must be a temple or the AOD to occur in.


So when are they going to start building it? I seem to recall hearing rumors of this since maybe the late 80s. And here it is almost 40 years later, these rumors still persist, yet no one is actually building the temple yet. Do you know for a fact, for example, that Jesus can't return within the next 5 years? Meaning His 2nd coming, not a pretrib rapture. Unless you know that for a fact, and that He could return within the next 5 years, how would that be enough time to get this temple built and all of these things fulfilled before this 5 years are up, assuming He might return within the next 5 years?
 
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robycop3

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So when are they going to start building it? I seem to recall hearing rumors of this since maybe the late 80s. And here it is almost 40 years later, these rumors still persist, yet no one is actually building the temple yet. Do you know for a fact, for example, that Jesus can't return within the next 5 years? Meaning His 2nd coming, not a pretrib rapture. Unless you know that for a fact, and that He could return within the next 5 years, how would that be enough time to get this temple built and all of these things fulfilled before this 5 years are up, assuming He might return within the next 5 years?
The Jews will build it swiftly when they know it won't start WW3. It's been discovred that the site of the old temple was NOT where the Dome of the Rock sits today. Many older people didn't believe that a literal Jewish nation would exist again, but GOD is stronger than any beliefs of men.
 
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rwb

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So when are they going to start building it? I seem to recall hearing rumors of this since maybe the late 80s. And here it is almost 40 years later, these rumors still persist, yet no one is actually building the temple yet. Do you know for a fact, for example, that Jesus can't return within the next 5 years? Meaning His 2nd coming, not a pretrib rapture. Unless you know that for a fact, and that He could return within the next 5 years, how would that be enough time to get this temple built and all of these things fulfilled before this 5 years are up, assuming He might return within the next 5 years?

Even if another physical temple were built, what would be the purpose? It certainly would not be to the glory of God!
 
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rwb

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The Jews will build it swiftly when they know it won't start WW3. It's been discovred that the site of the old temple was NOT where the Dome of the Rock sits today. Many older people didn't believe that a literal Jewish nation would exist again, but GOD is stronger than any beliefs of men.

Why will they build it???
 
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keras

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Will the Jews build a Third Temple?
No.
Correct; the Christian peoples will build the new Temple. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 40 to 46
2 But the COURT which is WITHOUT the Temple leave out
We realize that English is not your first language.
'without' in the context of Revelation 11:2, simply means; 'outside of'.
May the Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
We will surely need it!
Even if another physical temple were built, what would be the purpose? It certainly would not be to the glory of God!
Paul said the new Temple will be God's temple. 2 Thess 2:4.
It has to be for the 'beast' to desecrate it. Daniel 9:27, Revelation 13:1-18
Why will they build it???
God wanted His people to build a Temple twice before.
For this Church age, it is we Christian peoples who represent a Temple, Spiritually.
But God's Will, will be done on earth, and He will be worshipped in a new Temple by His faithful peoples.
Jesus will Return and after the Temple is cleansed and rededicated; He will reign from it. Zechariah 14:16-21
 
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keras

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Why on God's green earth would you believe Christians will build the new temple?
For His glory. Haggai 2:8, Ezekiel 43:1-4
Bible Prophecy is clear; there will be a new Temple in the end times and in the Millennium. But not for Eternity. Revelation 21:22
 
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Oseas

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The Jews will build a new temple in Jerusalem. Remember, Paul said the man of sin will sit in the temple declaring he is God. And that didn'e occur in the old temple. Plus, the AOD mentioned by Jesus didn't occur in it, either, so there must be a temple or the AOD to occur in.

Correct; the Christian peoples will build the new Temple. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 40 to 46

We realize that English is not your first language.
'without' in the context of Revelation 11:2, simply means; 'outside of'.

We will surely need it!

Paul said the new Temple will be God's temple. 2 Thess 2:4.
It has to be for the 'beast' to desecrate it. Daniel 9:27, Revelation 13:1-18

God wanted His people to build a Temple twice before.
For this Church age, it is we Christian peoples who represent a Temple, Spiritually.
But God's Will, will be done on earth, and He will be worshipped in a new Temple by His faithful peoples.
Jesus will Return and after the Temple is cleansed and rededicated; He will reign from it. Zechariah 14:16-21

Presumptions and speculations, conjectures, imaginations, opinions, they mean nothing and are good for nothing, that's exactly the way the Devil likes, your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from God's perspective.

First, what does the Word of GOD say? What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. Jeremiah 7:v.4&8 & 12:
4 - Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.
8 - Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.

Secondly: What does the Lord JESUS said? JESUS said the holy city will be trodden by the Gentile peoples, as follows-Revelation 11:v.2: Do you know when?
The COURT which is WITHOUT the TEMPLE (in Jerusalem) leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (there will be a Throne, not a Temple), this is because THE MAN OF SIN, a former cherub incarnated, the false messiah(John 5:v.43-47) and Revelation 13:v.2 says that the false messiah "will give his Power, and his Trone in Jerusalem, and great Authority to the MAN Beast of sea-a Gentilic Beast-the Pope, and the great harlot-the universal Roman Catholic Church-which rides upon the Beast of sea. THIS 42 MONTHS WITHOUT THE TEMPLE are the period of the FIRST HALF of the last week of years, that is the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27 , afterwards, the second half of the week , the enthroned satanic God will rule the second HALF OF THE LAST WEEK and the AOD will be established in Jerusalem for 1290 days. WITHOUT TEMPLE, THERE WILL NOT BE TEMPLE.

Therefore, the last week of years(which may be even is this current decade-2020-2030) is the last period and also the END of the existence of the of the Devil's world. Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit that he should deceive the nations no more.
]
THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS ESTABLISHED - Revelation 11:v.15 to 18 combined with Luke 20:v.35-36, among other references. Check it, be carefull, and get ready for the end of all things, including the two Covenants-the Old and New Testaments-2 Peter 3:v.7. The Word is GOD, The Word is self executing, understanding?
 
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Oseas

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The Jews will build it swiftly when they know it won't start WW3. It's been discovred that the site of the old temple was NOT where the Dome of the Rock sits today. Many older people didn't believe that a literal Jewish nation would exist again, but GOD is stronger than any beliefs of men.
Russia Preparing for War. | Page 37 | Christian Forums
Feb 9, 2022#233 WWIII??? Have you still never heard? There will never be WWIII, but NEVER.

I am writing this here for the record and for everyone, especially Americans, to be very calm, very quiet, and free from stress, and rest in peace. There will not be a third world war, never, but never.
Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only Wise God, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Now the War is of Armageddon? It's a battle against THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS

THREE UNCLEAN (AMPHIBIOUS?) SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS?
Revelation 16:v.13 to 16
1 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs (A SATANIC TRINITY) come out of the MOUTH of the Dragon (Revelation13:v.11), and out of the MOUTH of the Beast (Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.1-10), and out of the MOUTH of the False Prophet (the false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah-Revelation 13:v.11-18).
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great Day of God Almighty. (The Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Ar - mag - eddon.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Well, all Christian/believer know that the battle of AR(heaven)-Mag(Magog)-Eddon (Eddon means red-his origen) is against three UNCLEAN SPIRITS like frogs. Why frogs? I searched deeply an explanation for this biblical mystery, and by the Word of GOD what I found is the follow:

In general, frogs are amphibians vertebrate animals that live in the aquatic environment and on ground or the terrestrial environment. But is it the same in the spiritual environment? Yes, it is.
1 - THE AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT OF THE EVIL SPIRITS LIKE FROGS
Revelation 17:v.15 - And the angel saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. NOTE: Except the TRUE CHRISTIANS/BELIEVERS, all the peoples of all the nations are leaded, and dominated, and guided by the THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS like frogs. TERRIBLE. TERRIBLE.
That said, we can see by the above verse 15 the AQUATIC environment of these three spirits of demons like frogs which guide the peoples or rule nations of all tongues in whole earth, through all kind of devilish systems, as religious systems as Catholicism, and Judaism, and spiritism, budhism, islamism, among others), and also political systems, and military systems, and social and cultural systems, among others systems. In fact, Satan goes to and fro and from walking up and down among them.

That said, there is no doubt Israel is the earth, the dry land -Genesis 1:v.10-3rd Day - , with its great city spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, yeah, Israel, the earth, the dry land, was and is also dominated by the three unclean spirits like frogs, which infested the nation of idolatries, and wichcraft,spiritism/esoterism , idolaters and spiritist peoples or esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist peoples that follow the esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist Judaism, and they are waiting their messiah who must manifest himself soon (he was born decades ago and must manifest himself soon-2 Thes.2:v.6), and he will be one of the heads of the MONSTROUS and SATANIC Antichrist's Empire together the Beast of sea-Daniel 2:v.40 to 43 and Revelation 13:v.1 to 10-the Beast of sea- and Revelation 13:v.11 to 18-the Beast of the earth.

These are the spiritual ENVIRONMENT that the GOD's people will see in the last week 70th Daniel 9:v.27 that may be within these current decade of 2020-2030.

Be careful and get ready

Revelation 16:v.15 - KJV
15 - Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Revelation 2:v.25 to 29 KJV
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

JESUS is at door, but the Man Beast of earth will come first-2 Thes.2- even GOD will send STRONG DELUSION in near days, a false messiah, in fact a former Cherub, the son of perdition. This Man Beast of the earth, like a lamb with two horns -Revelation 13:v.11--representing two kingdoms-, actually a false lamb, course, he will manifest himself in Israel as a Messiah - as was prophesied by JESUS -JOHN 5:v.43 to 47-

Get ready
THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS? | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net)
 
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