Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[Bob_1000]

Well, I am a preterist of sorts, and I do not deny the reality of "impending dramatic changes" in our near future. It's just that the type of imminent events in OUR immediate future are NOT the same as the imminent events that were present back in Peter's days, when he warned the believers in 1 Peter 4:7 that "The end of all things is at hand. Be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." That was the end of a different set of ages back in Peter's days. Another set of ages will conclude down the road in our distant future.

As for the present, the transition from the end of the 6th millennium over to the 7th millennium of fallen man's history on this planet will arrive in the year 2033 (which is 2000 years after Christ's crucifixion and the end of that 4th millennium). I believe scripture patterns indicate that this year of 2033 is when the world will go fallow in a type of imposed "Sabbath" rest for the next, 7th millennium. Leading up until that year 2033, the world is currently experiencing wildly-fluctuating conditions that will precede that fallow existence for the entire planet. For one thing, we are due for a mini ice age, which those who observe patterns of sunspot activity are telling us is on the way in the near future. This, combined with the precarious financial settings in every nation, are part of the same events preceding the 7th, fallow millennium. Consider simplified, sustainable living, people, with preparedness for perhaps "sheltering in place" for the long run. Get to know your neighbors much better, if possible. You will probably need each other much more than you think.

That's an interesting point of view. What do you think "fallow" would mean?

 

[Timtofly]

Rather, This happened at the Cross:
38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

Then, 40 years AFTER the Cross, this happened:
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

Matthew 21:38-41

Except the owner was the Son, as well. There was no specific time frame mentioned. In fact the owner is still to come, because those to whom was given charge, stand accountable for their time. One could say the owner has been away for almost 6000 years, and time is almost up where the owner will no longer be absent.

You have to prove that the church was also removed in 70AD, if you think the parable has been completed. Otherwise it is still ongoing and the Lord of the vineyard is still away.

 

[Timtofly]

The Literalist is in essence calling God a LIAR when he claims God will destroy this present earth in our future and replace it whith a materially different "new" one, because we see above that God promised to NEVER destroy the Literal Earth, and He also promised to "NEVER AGAIN CURSE THE GROUND, and NEVER AGAIN Smite every living thing.

You apply a concept to this. Yet inconsistent. According to you the governments of earth will never pass away, not the literal physical makeup.

You claim the governments were destroyed, then turn around and state the governments can never be destroyed. What you are claiming is the concept cannot pass away, no?

That a NHNE passes away or starts does not change the concept of there always being a heavens and earth.

You accept the concept of government, but then refuse to apply that same concept to a physical place. If governments can change, then so can reality. Yet there will always be a heavens and earth. It is the fact of a created heavens and earth that will always be. Reality changing is no different than governments changing.

 

[Timtofly]

I myself think that Revelation was written before 70AD, because it mentions the temple still standing. But the date 90AD is given even in various Bible translations preface. It seems to be the mainstream scholarly datation, now.

It does not mention "the" temple. It mentions a temple.

Why do you think the Temple of God is the same as Herod's temple?

 

[3 Resurrections]

That's an interesting point of view. What do you think "fallow" would mean?

Check the scriptures for what constituted any type of Sabbath period. God intended from creation forward for the 7th day of the literal week to be a time of rest for the benefit of mankind; to cease for one day from the pressures of making a living for our daily bread; to recharge the energy of both the body and the spirit.

The very ground itself benefits from cycles of productivity and of rest, which is why God also programmed the entire 7th year under Mosaic law for the ground to remain fallow, without planting or harvesting. Also, the agricultural harvests in the land of Israel culminated in the 7th month, after which the winter rains replenished the ground for the next year's harvests. Because the Israelites did not obey this pattern under Mosaic law of Sabbath rest for themselves and their servants, God forced them into 70 years of their Babylonian exile, when the ground of the land of Canaan "enjoyed its Sabbaths" undisturbed.

Extending this pattern of multiples of 7, the ultimate purpose of the 70-weeks-of-years prophecy under Daniel (for a total of 490 years) was to reveal "Messiah the Prince, who is our own personal "rest" of salvation in Him.

A fallow period for the 7th millennium coming up is not intended for a punishment necessarily. It is a chance to get back to concentrating on the basics of life. Humanity tends to get absorbed in ceaseless striving over financial gain and entertainment, so that we forget the One for whom we were made. A fallow millennium coming up would force the world to scale back to the more important things of life; that being fellowship with our God, with our families, and with our neighbor. Not so much on the accumulation of things.

When God brought His people Israel into the wilderness and made them desperately dependent upon Him for the very bread and water they needed for survival, this was a blessing to them, whether many of them realized it or not. They became a nation under Him during that time; carried by Him all those days of old. Privation and desperate circumstances tend to push us towards the throne of God, begging Him for His favor to us. Prosperity seems to do the opposite for us. We get fat and happy, often forgetting the source of our comforts.

The scriptures show us in no uncertain terms that God has planned for His kingdom to steadily grow and increase in this world, like leaven, or the mustard seed. "Of the increase of His government and of His peace there shall be no end", we are told. Sometimes the very best way to encourage the growth of God's kingdom in this world is to tamp down the prosperity of Christ's servants, and to increase their persecution. By this the unsaved world can see that we do not simply serve our God for just the bountiful material benefits He supplies. For Christians to remain faithful to their God in the face of adversity speaks volumes to the unsaved, and is a better aid to evangelism than anything else.

Think about it: if the grid shuts down, abortion clinics cannot operate business as usual. Perhaps that is what it will take. I for one would say "Go ahead, God, pull the plug".

 

[Timtofly]

absolutely agreed. It’s quite strange that The view of the Millennium, a symbolic vision with no interpretation given by the angel, has so much influence for how futurists interpret the clear teachings in the gospels/epistles, instead of the other way around.

Revelation 20 is not a symbolic vision. Thus it needs no interpretation. John clearly points out who the main "characters" are. That is the explanation of what John was a literal witness to. John was not being shown a vision by an angel. John claimed he saw these things, not that an angel showed him.

John's account was the Revelation of Christ on earth as Prince. It was not an imagination "if scenario". We are being told Christ will come to earth, not things happening if Christ comes to earth.

 

[Bob_1000]

Check the scriptures for what constituted any type of Sabbath period. God intended from creation forward for the 7th day of the literal week to be a time of rest for the benefit of mankind; to cease for one day from the pressures of making a living for our daily bread; to recharge the energy of both the body and the spirit.

The very ground itself benefits from cycles of productivity and of rest, which is why God also programmed the entire seventh year under Mosaic law for the ground to remain fallow, without planting or harvesting. Also, the agricultural harvests in the land of Israel culminated in the 7th month, after which the winter rains replenished the ground for the next year's harvests. Because the Israelites did not obey this pattern under Mosaic law of Sabbath rest for themselves and their servants, God forced them into 70 years of their Babylonian exile, when the ground of the land of Canaan "enjoyed its Sabbaths" undisturbed.

Extending this pattern of multiples of 7, the ultimate purpose of the 70-weeks-of-years prophecy under Daniel (for a total of 490 years) was to reveal "Messiah the Prince, who is our own personal "rest" of salvation in Him.

A fallow period for the 7th millennium coming up is not intended for a punishment necessarily. It is a chance to get back to concentrating on the basics of life. Humanity tends to get absorbed in ceaseless striving over financial gain and entertainment, so that we forget the One for whom we were made. A fallow millennium coming up would force the world to scale back to the more important things of life; that being fellowship with our God, with our families, and with our neighbor. Not so much on the accumulation of things.

When God brought His people Israel into the wilderness and made them desperately dependent upon Him for the very bread and water they needed for survival, this was a blessing to them, whether many of them realized it or not. They became a nation under Him during that time; carried by Him all those days of old. Privation and desperate circumstances tend to push us towards the throne of God, begging Him for His favor to us. Prosperity seems to do the opposite for us. We get fat and happy, often forgetting the source of our comforts.

The scriptures show us in no uncertain terms that God has planned for His kingdom to steadily grow and increase in this world, like leaven, or the mustard seed. "Of the increase of His government and of His peace there shall be no end", we are told. Sometimes the very best way to encourage the growth of God's kingdom in this world is to tamp down the prosperity of Christ's servants, and to increase their persecution. By this the unsaved world can see that we do not simply serve our God for just the bountiful material benefits He supplies. For Christians to remain faithful to their God in the face of adversity speaks volumes to the unsaved, and is a better aid to evangelism than anything else.

Think about it: if the grid shuts down, abortion clinics cannot operate business as usual. Perhaps that is what it will take. I for one would say "Go ahead, God, pull the plug".

I'm with you on most of that. the world is about to start over for sure.

 

[trophy33]

It does not mention "the" temple. It mentions a temple.

"Go and measure the temple of God..."
Rev 11: 1

Why do you think the Temple of God is the same as Herod's temple?

Because nothing else makes sense in the context of the destruction of Jerusalem which is the context of the 11th chapter.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you say, Keras, that a 3 and 1/2 year period - or 7 year period - must take place before Jesus returns? If you do - you are just "reverse-date-setting". Me - I say that "impending dramatic changes are IMMINENT - and waiting on nothing - no peace treaty, no 7 year "trib" - no 3 1/2 year Great Trib -- just WHAMM -- one day Jesus is suddenly back. What am I denying?

You are denying preterism.

 

[parousia70]

Except the owner was the Son, as well.

Correct. Jesus was the Rock that Crushed them.

There was no specific time frame mentioned.

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.

Whatever timeframe it was, it was cemented to the lifetimes of the Chief Priests and Pharisees to whom Jesus was specifically applying the prophesy.

THEY understood He was speaking about what was going to befall THEM.

Seems we should understand that as well.

 

[keras]

Go and measure the temple of God..."
Rev 11: 1

2 Thess 2:4....he will sit in the Temple of God.....
Many prophesies tell us about the new Temple to be built in the end times. Dedicated to God and used for Christian worship. Haggai 2:8-9
But a man under Satan's control will desecrate it and will persecute Christians for the 42 months before Jesus Returns.

Preterists who deny these unfulfilled, plain prophetic statements, will be very embarrassed when things happen as God has told us they will.

 

[trophy33]

2 Thess 2:4....he will sit in the Temple of God.....
Many prophesies tell us about the new Temple to be built in the end times.

There is not even one prophecy about building the third temple in the whole Bible.

Its just a futurists' invention to go around the fact that the events they expect need the physical temple to exist.

 

[trophy33]

Preterists who deny these unfulfilled, plain prophetic statements, will be very embarrassed when things happen as God has told us they will.

If you think that its about some personal embarrasment then you got the whole theology wrong. Every real Christian will rejoice in any truth, even if they were wrong about it.

 

[Timtofly]

I think so too, such an event would be mentioned.

Such an event had nothing to do with the church. That is the issue. Preterist are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[trophy33]

Such an event had nothing to do with the church. That is the issue. Preterist are barking up the wrong tree.

If it had nothing to do with the church, then why are futurist Christians still talking about it and expecting it?

It actually had a lot to do with the church - first it was prophesized by Christ and apostles, second it marked the end of the age they were eagerly waiting for.

 

[keras]

There is not even one prophecy about building the third temple in the whole Bible.

Its just a futurists' invention to go around the fact that the events they expect need the physical temple to exist.

Try reading: Zechariah 1:16 & 6:15 & 8:9-10, Isaiah 60:9, Isaiah 56:1-8, Micah 4:1, Haggai 2:8-9, Ezekiel 40 to 46, +

If you think that its about some personal embarrasment then you got the whole theology wrong. Every real Christian will rejoice in any truth, even if they were wrong about it.

Quite right, but to have got God's Prophetic Word so wrong, may result in a loss of rewards. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

 

[trophy33]

Try reading: Zechariah 1:16 & 6:15 & 8:9-10, Isaiah 60:9, Isaiah 56:1-8, Micah 4:1, Haggai 2:8-9, Ezekiel 40 to 46, +

The second temple was destroyed in 70 AD. All those prophets were written long before that. Its just your projection that they had in mind some still non-existent third temple and not the second one.

Quite right, but to have got God's Prophetic Word so wrong, may result in a loss of rewards. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

Nobody will lose any reward just because he is sincerely mistaken. And every one of us is mistaken in something.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I'm with you on most of that. the world is about to start over for sure.

If I had to give this proposed 7th millennium of fallow conditions a nickname, it could be called "GOD'S Y2K" - when the Almighty hits the reset button for the last thousand years of fallen man's history on this planet.

 

[Lost4words]

The 3rd Temple was Jesus.

No other temple will ever be built. At least, no 'real' 'true' temple!

 

[parousia70]

Preterists who deny these unfulfilled, plain prophetic statements, will be very embarrassed when things happen

Speaking of embarrassing, Time is swiftly runnng out on Futurism.
Futurism only has another 20-50 years tops, years before it completley crumbles under the weight of 2000 years of continued non-fulfillment, failed predictions and empty promises.

The Next Generation of Christians, those who haven't left the faith alltogether because of futurism's epic failure, will have largely abandoned the futurist fantasy in favor of Biblical Preterism.

Conversely, We prets have eternity. Time is squarely on the side of the preterist. Unlike Futurists, we NEVER have to move the goalposts.

And Keras, I promise not to say "I told ya so."