Presupposition: mutation comes before adaptation - justified *how*?

[BeyondET]

Generation seems first, before anything can regenerate, metamorph, mutate adapt, evolve

 

[SkyWriting]

The ability to trigger or not certain genetic traits in immediate offspring is itself an inherited trait. It also tends to revert when the climate, famine crisis returns to normal in a generation or two.(A friend of mine did his genetics PHD on heat shock proteins in fruit flys).

Yes, genetic evolution can change very quickly. Like a light switch. Thanks!

How Genetic Switches Work - Molecular Biology of the Cell
Genetic Switches - HHMI BioInteractive
Genetic switches play big role in human evolution
https://www.biointeractive.org/classroom-resources/genetic-switches

 

[Gottservant]

What if I made God, hard to find?

You would say "oh well, that makes God more worthy as a god"?

Because mutations make adaptations greater...?

 

[Shemjaza]

What if I made God, hard to find?

You would say "oh well, that makes God more worthy as a god"?

I don't see how that is relevant to evolution in any way?

Because mutations make adaptations greater...?

Mutations make adaptations exist at all.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What if I made God, hard to find?

You would say "oh well, that makes God more worthy as a god"?

Because mutations make adaptations greater...?

This has nothing to do with evolution.

 

[driewerf]

Actually the death of every human is planned to the last instant.

Ah god's great Plan.
So are all abortions planned too? Shouldn't we abolish all anti-abortion laws then?
Should we open the jails and release all murderers?
After all, all deaths are planned by God, according to you.

 

[SkyWriting]

Ah god's great Plan.
So are all abortions planned too? Shouldn't we abolish all anti-abortion laws then?
Should we open the jails and release all murderers?
After all, all deaths are planned by God, according to you.

All governments are instituted by God as well.
And yes, plans are in the works to eliminate the death penalty, (mostly done)
and eventually prisons.

 

[driewerf]

All governments are instituted by God as well.

Including the Taliban?

 

[Larniavc]

You're contextualizing specie driven inspiration, with manifesting the negative of exomorphic change, as unreasonable?

That is exactly what I’m saying.

 

[Larniavc]

If you went to a neurosurgeon, to operate on your brain, you would ask about his credentials and past experience, wouldn't you?

So why if I am going to trust a generation of children to living in this world, not check what people in this world believe? What their past is?

If you are not going to tell me why you believe what you believe, why would I leave my children in a vulnerable position - where they can't trust what is said to them?

Scientifically, I have an obligation to investigate the motivation you have for what you believe - as pertains to the Evolution I pass on: if you are not invested in that, why do you bother to learn Evolution at all? Do you want me to come up with a reason, or is your taste invested in bringing down people that don't believe what you do?

You missed my point. I was agreeing with you.

 

[Larniavc]

Because mutations make adaptations greater...?

Mutations facilitate adaptation to the environment.

 

[SkyWriting]

Including the Taliban?

Every government.

Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 2:18-20
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

1 Peter 2:13
13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor[c] as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants[d] of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

 

[Gottservant]

That is exactly what I’m saying.

But its a choice.

You are saying choice is irrelevant.

That's not wrong, if you are working to create more advantage in some other direction, but I don't think you are working thus for that reason?

 

[Gottservant]

You missed my point. I was agreeing with you.

You are telling me it was a fact, but I want to know why?

If you can't tell me why, there is no way for me to work out what to expect.

Saying something is ordered, has to be justified - that is by a transition from what was not ordered to what was (its not wrong if you don't, but you can't stop some other beginning to take center stage - the Bible says "why" is that God wanted it to? But if you don't believe that you can believe God was more interested in your beginning, than anything?)

 

[Gottservant]

Mutations facilitate adaptation to the environment.

When adaptations on their own cannot? There is a prohibition against perfect adaptations?

If you are just starting out with an adaptation, how can you get it wrong?

 

[Gottservant]

I don't see how that is relevant to evolution in any way?


Mutations make adaptations exist at all.

You are saying "I make adaptations hard to find, therefore they are realer than if they were just adaptations"

That is hair-brained!

Which adaptation does mutation justify? All of them? One mutation and suddenly you want righteous adaptation?

 

[Shemjaza]

You are saying "I make adaptations hard to find, therefore they are realer than if they were just adaptations"

That is hair-brained!

Which adaptation does mutation justify? All of them? One mutation and suddenly you want righteous adaptation?

That is not what I'm saying.

For there to be an adaption there needs to be a genetic change.

A genetic change is called a mutation.

That's it.

So every adaption is caused by a mutation.

 

[Gottservant]

This has nothing to do with evolution.

Sure it does, you're saying obscuring the truth makes it truer.

Jesus said "if you are unfaithful in what is least, you will be unfaithful in what is much"

You are putting mutation first, which is unfaithful and concluding you don't need to change the interpretation of what you believe according to the circumstances or expectations of others who might also want to believe it.

God never said "Let there be mutation" your head is in the clouds?

 

[Gottservant]

That is not what I'm saying.

For there to be an adaption there needs to be a genetic change.

A genetic change is called a mutation.

That's it.

So every adaption is caused by a mutation.

But you are not justifying genetic change genetically, you are justifying it mutationally.

As if you can't genetically replicate what you want to adapt to, until you have the right adaptation.

You can say "no, I know a mutation when I see one" all you want, but you can't force others to give up adaptation without it, no matter how many repetitions it takes to get the right adaptation.

I fully accept that looking for the right adaptation looks like Evolution, without the mutations, but that's my point: you can justify making adaptation easier and lighter, by referring to other adaptations, you can't justify making mutations important, by appealing to all the corruption they represent.

 

[Shemjaza]

But you are not justifying genetic change genetically, you are justifying it mutationally.

Mutationally isn't a word and this sentence is nonsensical.

As if you can't genetically replicate what you want to adapt to, until you have the right adaptation.

You can't. You have no conscious control of your own genetics.

You can say "no, I know a mutation when I see one" all you want, but you can't force others to give up adaptation without it, no matter how many repetitions it takes to get the right adaptation.

It isn't physically possible to have a new evolutionary adaption without a mutation.

You still don't appear to understand how adaptions work.

I fully accept that looking for the right adaptation looks like Evolution, without the mutations, but that's my point: you can justify making adaptation easier and lighter, by referring to other adaptations, you can't justify making mutations important, by appealing to all the corruption they represent.

Specifically describe a single example of a new adaptation that did not originate in a mutation but is still relevant to the evolutionary process.

Because your descriptions do not make any sense using accepted definitions.