Thanks for the 411 Dana. FYI, Member of a congregation in Allegheny Presbytery here. i hope that you keep your membership on this forum for future corrections of misunderstandings about the EPC.
There is also a Ruling Elder on this board from East Presbytery.
Great to have you aboard. With all the PCA people around here i was beginning to feel a bit outnumbered. Of course, that's something that most Scots have gotten used to over the centuries.I'm EPC.
No one of any consequence.
We voted against Female Ruling Elders, and would not call a Female Teaching elder. We do have female deacons, and there is some scriptural basis for that.We have a local EPA that had split from the PCUSA ..I exchanged emails with the Pastor and attended a service.. My problem with it was that the EPA allows each congregation to decide on women deacons and elders..
i am not in a position to presume to know what went on in the minds of the human writers God used to compile scripture. i'm not even certain that those authors were aware of the full implications of what they wrote.We have had female elders (not me). Present leadership is against such in my church. Female elders are great because women feel there is someone in leadership they can open up to in a way they cannot with a man. At the same time there is a compelling case for male-only leadership.
For me there is a sort of schizophrenia. Emotionally I mutter against patriarchial hierarchy, but there it is in the Bible. I'm a complementarian in thought but emotionally an egalitarian. That seems to be an echo of the current struggle among Presbyterians.
i would be very happy if we (at least my congregation) would at least consistently apply the standards of I Tim 3.I know of an independent charismatic church that will only ordain a couple - singles need not apply. There are also many ministry couples out there, and some of them work well (Jim and Tammy Faye excepted).
When our last pastoral candidate was interviewed by the congregation not so long ago, he was asked what he envisioned his wife's role to be, as some couples seem to be a 2:1 deal, some expect she will take over the nursery and the women's ministry, and others do nothing. She is now "just" a member of the congregation. One pastor's wife I knew went so far as to never sit with hubby during the service, but at the same time she was in charge of the women's ministry and various projects.
I just looked at the English 1 Tim 3 quickly. Based on my lousy memory that loves to make up things I later regret, the Greek here is not particularly helpful as wife/woman is I think the same word here, and deacon can cover the sense "deaconess".
I'm not equipped now for a lengthy debate on this, and it would be off topic anyway. They have killed whole forests writing on this subject anyway.
So your male children aren't obligated to listen to and obey you?Imaginary conversation I have had:
He: So you should only teach women.
Me:So if a man wanders within earshot, I need to sit down and be silent?
"Man walks quickly away"
i would be very happy if we (at least my congregation) would at least consistently apply the standards of I Tim 3.
i don't know how they rationalise having no women, YET have (at one time) 1/3 of the session members as divorced/remarried men.
Another EPC congregation i was a member of had a Pastor who was on his third marriage. Needless to say, he had a very troubled pastorate before he left. He didn't last all that long.
My present congregation had a deacon (male) --also divorced/remarried-- who was being 'groomed' for higher leadership potential...until it was discovered that he was involved in sexual activities with under aged girls. Now he's currently in the State Prison system last i heard.
You have to wonder what the leadership was thinking when they make some decisions. i have to wonder why it is that leadership thinks that scriptural guidelines don't apply to them any more.
i don't follow John MacArthur, but he did say something of value when it comes to church government and administration. It seems to especially apply to Presbyterians in smaller denominations.
We left the main Presbyterian denomination. Why is it that we have to continue to govern the church as if we were still members of that denomination? Our creeds and view of scripture are now conservative, but we are functioning with a liberal praxis and using the same liberal hermeneutic when making decisions.
It is an area where the church must reform.
Well, i will tell you that i'm in the EPC for only one reason: Their confession of faith is, while not completely in line with my beliefs, the closest available Presbyterian Denomination.Perhaps it is the grace of God that I have always enjoyed being in Presbyterian churches with wonderful Sessions of godly men who were there for the right reasons.
I would really like to reply to this, within the chivalrous manners I was raised with.Imaginary conversation I have had:
He: So you should only teach women.
Me:So if a man wanders within earshot, I need to sit down and be silent?
"Man walks quickly away"
I would really like to reply to this, within the chivalrous manners I was raised with.
I'm afraid it may send the discussion to where it should be opened to another thread. I will likely also regret hitting the "post" button. And I don't wish it to be disrespectful...
So I will close with this thought... Ma'am (Tomyris), I would open the door for you any day of the week, wherever we may be, although we have never met. That is the manner and respect any gentleman should prevail.
Likewise, my smiling bride and I agree that I hold the trump card regarding any decision or discussion we may have... and we have an unspoken agreement that if I exercise that authority she has the obligation to hold it over my head. **my tone may seem sarcastic, however there is a deep realism to my response** And in the upbringing of our children, my boys had better listen to their mother. They really don't want me to get involved. I just took a poll(really!).
So, in conclusion, I tell you that I, as an elder, should never neglect the value of the words you wish to speak. And I have an obligation to put it into perspective and application of the Written Word.
It seems to me that there have been more schisms in the Presbyterian church than in any other Protestant denomination. Is that correct?
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