Premarital Intercourse?

[CounselorForChrist]

Sex outside of marriage = fornication.

Fornication = sin.

Sin = no-no.

Ta-da.

Hey quit making things so easy! Its no fun if the topic doesn't end up 40 pages long!

 

[Inkachu]

Hey quit making things so easy! Its no fun if the topic doesn't end up 40 pages long!

 

[amandatea]

No, it does not necessitate that they stop having sex with one another. It comes down to their convictions. If God convicts them, then they should stop. If God never convicts them, then they don't need to stop. "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

The fact that they're asking about it seems to suggest that there is some conviction going on there. I went through that too. That's the reason I stopped. Conviction is not a bad thing.

 

[sdowney717]

From a Christian viewpoint, how might one answer this question?

"I have recently taken an interest in Christianity, but I have been in a relationship for the past couple years. We don't see marriage possible within the next few years; Does this mean we need to stop having sex?".

The promises of God in the bible are for believers.

One promise of God is that fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 6

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

And let that sin not even be named among the believers, it is not acceptable to the LORD, the deeds of the flesh of the unrighteous are reason enough to go to hell.

Ephesians 5:3
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;

As is fitting for saints, as is acceptable to God, you can not do those things and go to heaven. Sexual immorality as defined by God includes fornications.

Jesus says also

Matthew 15:19
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

The final word from God if you still doubt is this

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

 

[Philpy1976]

What does 'marry' even mean?

Who married Adam and Eve?
Who married Lamech and his wives?

Do the legal processes of modern 'marriage' even really mean anything in a biblical sense?

Joining together in the sight of God and remaining together seems to be the most biblical way to describe it to me.
No need for certificates or documents, just the presence of the creator.

 

[Inkachu]

That is one seriously straw-thin argument if I ever heard one.

 

[Philpy1976]

That is one seriously straw-thin argument if I ever heard one.

You have not answered my question though.
There must be a point at which couple are considered 'married' in God's eyes, but at what point is it?

We know the Samaritan woman Jesus met had been married 5 times, we know also that she was with a 6th man who was not her husband (notice there was no condemnation from Jesus about this). So what is the actual process that God considers to be 'marriage'?

Giving and receiving of rings is pagan,
It can't be cohabiting (see above) so;
Public declaration?
A religious leader overseeing?

I am asking a genuine question.

 

[Max Shade]

What does 'marry' even mean?

An exclusive and deep relationship between an man and wife which God ordained at the beginning of time as a living analogy for the oneness yet different persons-ness of the Trinity. Ideally, Man, Wife and their God form a trinity which is completely unified yet distinct in persons.

Who married Adam and Eve?

God created Eve as Adam's wife, therefore, she was married to Adam before her creation was actually complete.

Who married Lamech and his wives?

In context, perhaps not the best example, but you probably got that example from some source which was promoting an idea. What source by the way?

Do the legal processes of modern 'marriage' even really mean anything in a biblical sense?

In my opinion, no. The first purpose I mentioned already supersedes all else. Property laws, tax laws and inheritance are petty compared to the divinely inspired purpose of "real" marriage.

Joining together in the sight of God and remaining together seems to be the most biblical way to describe it to me.
No need for certificates or documents, just the presence of the creator.

That opens the whole "render to Cesare" line of arguments. I can tell you from experience that a documented (church & state) marriage which is God centered is far superior to an undocumented marriage that tries its best at being God centered. Why? I don't know. I have lived it and seen the proofs anecdotaly. Hard to argue with the results though, I am happy on a level a lot of people would kill many people to get to & it is just not that hard. . . . provided . . .

 

[Inkachu]

We are to submit to the authorities under which we're placed in life. The only time we're permitted to rebel is if those authorities command us to directly disobey God. So if your government requires a marriage license, you need to do it. I've yet to meet a pastor willing to perform a marriage ceremony with a couple who don't have a license, anyway. You're also asking for a world of trouble down the road, because everything from bank accounts to health care to financial assets will be affected your decision. It's one thing to disobey government because they're asking something ungodly of you; it's another to buck the system simply because you're feeling rebellious and want to make a point.

 

[ladyches]

I notice a lot of these threads talk about sex. I think it is interesting that Christians talk about it so much.

People, in general, either talk or think about sex a lot. It's expected that Christians don't think or talk about it, which is ridiculous because we are human. But it's how we think/talk about it that should be different.

Imo, it's not talked about enough in churches. Especially for single people. Sexual desire is a God-given gift, but singles are commanded not to enjoy that gift outside of marriage. But that doesn't stop us from having the desire and longing to be able to delight in that gift. Especially if you've been married and are divorced/widowed.

 

[jmt1323]

What are the other options? Hand lotion or sticky bed sheets?

I notice a lot of these threads talk about sex. I think it is interesting that Christians talk about it so much.

Fornication is mentioned several times in the New Testament, as it is a serious offense to God. It is said to keep people out of the Kingdom (1 Cor. 6:9), so we must tread carefully.

It is good to talk about, to gain understanding.

 

[Philpy1976]

@ Max Shade

I picked Lamech and his wives because i chose to skip over Cain and his wife because that opens a whole new can of worms!
Is it the polygamy aspect you felt was "a point"?

Going back to my original questions, I ask mainly because my wife and I were married in a registry office prior to becoming followers of Christ. There was no mention of God or His son. It makes me wonder if (despite what society says) I really AM married, in the eyes of our Father?

 

[Max Shade]

@ Max Shade

I picked Lamech and his wives because i chose to skip over Cain and his wife because that opens a whole new can of worms!
Is it the polygamy aspect you felt was "a point"?

no. Rather that God/godliness wasn't explicitly involved as in the case of Jacob where even though tricked he still did his best to honor Leah. The answer is the same, the cultures of that time had their own ways of demonstrating exclusiveness.

Going back to my original questions, I ask mainly because my wife and I were married in a registry office prior to becoming followers of Christ. There was no mention of God or His son. It makes me wonder if (despite what society says) I really AM married, in the eyes of our Father?

Man if you can't FEEL the answer you should be dedicating every waking moment to. . .

 

[aiki]

You have not answered my question though.
There must be a point at which couple are considered 'married' in God's eyes, but at what point is it?

We know the Samaritan woman Jesus met had been married 5 times, we know also that she was with a 6th man who was not her husband (notice there was no condemnation from Jesus about this). So what is the actual process that God considers to be 'marriage'?

Giving and receiving of rings is pagan,
It can't be cohabiting (see above) so;
Public declaration?
A religious leader overseeing?

I am asking a genuine question.

In Scripture the formal acknowledgement of marriage signified by the giving of a woman to a man by her parents is what appears to be the core act of marriage. Sex does not marry a couple. God gave Eve to Adam, Rebekah's parents gave her away to Isaac, Laban gave away his daughters to Jacob, Tamar was angry with Shelah's father, Judah, that she had not been "given to Shelah as his wife," and so on. This giving away is the one element of the wedding ceremony, established by God in Eden, that has endured until today and appears to be the essential ceremony wedding a woman to a man as wife and husband.

Selah.

 

[Philpy1976]

In Scripture the formal acknowledgement of marriage signified by the giving of a woman to a man by her parents is what appears to be the core act of marriage. Sex does not marry a couple. God gave Eve to Adam, Rebekah's parents gave her away to Isaac, Laban gave away his daughters to Jacob, Tamar was angry with Shelah's father, Judah, that she had not been "given to Shelah as his wife," and so on. This giving away is the one element of the wedding ceremony, established by God in Eden, that has endured until today and appears to be the essential ceremony wedding a woman to a man as wife and husband.

Selah.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

It does, however, cast even more doubt over my true marital status.
My wife was not "given away" by anyone. Her family dislike me.

 

[Max Shade]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

It does, however, cast even more doubt over my true marital status.
My wife was not "given away" by anyone. Her family dislike me.

While I can't blame them the giving away isn't a Christian concept per se. Anthropologically, it is rooted in certain cultures. The "giving away" idea has its roots in property and ownership rights. You will not find it in more egalitarian social structures.

 

[Inkachu]

In Scripture the formal acknowledgement of marriage signified by the giving of a woman to a man by her parents is what appears to be the core act of marriage. Sex does not marry a couple. God gave Eve to Adam, Rebekah's parents gave her away to Isaac, Laban gave away his daughters to Jacob, Tamar was angry with Shelah's father, Judah, that she had not been "given to Shelah as his wife," and so on. This giving away is the one element of the wedding ceremony, established by God in Eden, that has endured until today and appears to be the essential ceremony wedding a woman to a man as wife and husband.

Selah.

I'm sorry, but this is preposterous - to suggest that unless a woman is "given" away by someone, she isn't really or properly married. God gave Eve to Adam, yes, but all of the "giving" of brides that you mention after that (all happening thousands of years ago in another part of the world, I might add) was a cultural ritual. Women didn't have rights, they were basically property, and often money exchanged hands when a woman got engaged/married; so she was "given" to her husband from her father as a way of saying "I'm done taking care of her, now you do it, because she's a female and can't exist apart from a man". This is also why brothers were expected to marry their own brothers' widows if they died; it certainly wasn't romantic or sentimental, it was done out of necessity, so the woman would have provision and protection. And it has not "endured" across all cultures and peoples, through eternity. Many, many women today - Christians included (including myself!) are not "given away" by anyone! We give ourselves to our husbands, willingly and without condition.

 

[aiki]

I'm sorry, but this is preposterous - to suggest that unless a woman is "given" away by someone, she isn't really or properly married. God gave Eve to Adam, yes, but all of the "giving" of brides that you mention after that (all happening thousands of years ago in another part of the world, I might add) was a cultural ritual.

I disagree. I have at least some biblical basis for my view. It's interesting that you acknowledge that God gave Eve to Adam as his wife, which God obviously didn't have to do, but immediately dismiss it as being significant without any justification. You'll notice also that God didn't say to Adam, "Here's a woman to help you out. Do as you like with each other." When God gave Eve to Adam it was with the explanation that she was to be his wife in a unique, permanent relationship to him for the rest of Adam's life.

Women didn't have rights, they were basically property, and often money exchanged hands when a woman got engaged/married; so she was "given" to her husband from her father as a way of saying "I'm done taking care of her, now you do it, because she's a female and can't exist apart from a man".

This wasn't the case with Isaac's wife, Rebekah. Her family asked her if she wanted to be given to Isaac. It was only upon her agreement that they consented to her betrothal to him. Were Rebekah's parents just culturally aberrant in this regard? I see no reason to think so. Particularly among the Israelites, women as property was not the way of things. We see in the record of Scripture women acting briefly as judges and prophets in Israel.

And it has not "endured" across all cultures and peoples, through eternity.

I never said that it had. Your embellishments of my statement are your own.

Many, many women today - Christians included (including myself!) are not "given away" by anyone! We give ourselves to our husbands, willingly and without condition.

Well, I think this is unfortunate. Very "I-am-woman-hear-me-roar" but not in keeping with the example God set for the wedding of a woman to a man in Eden.

Selah.

 

[aiki]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

It does, however, cast even more doubt over my true marital status.
My wife was not "given away" by anyone. Her family dislike me.

The giving away is not itself absolutely vital. It is what the giving away signifies that is really important. And that is that a woman and man are being united together in the sacred bonds of marriage as husband and wife. They aren't just shacking up, or coming together for the purposes of illicit sexual activity, but are wedding themselves to each other in a life-long, monogamous partnership. This is formally acknowledged by the betrothal of the woman to the man.

If there was no one to give away your wife to you, don't sweat it. If you were formally wedded to each other (by a justice of the peace or a minister), I'm sure God honors that.

Selah.

 

[BrianJK]

I think this is a sad subject. It is so fiercely defended within the Church that it is sometimes difficult to get a real answer.

I weakly accept that a man and a woman should not have sex until marriage. I say weakly because I only accept it based on the fact that I'd be kicked out of any church and Bible study if I didn't. Nobody has ever told me why, just shown me a few verses and refused to let me ask further questions.

Based on the few verses I've been shown, the only way those can show this as a mandate from God is if the Greek word porneia must always and only mean any and all sexual intercourse outside of covenant marriage. If I could see how that is proven, maybe I could understand this whole thing better. However, I have a problem teaching others that the Bible says something only because the majority of Christendom is fierce about it, rather than because I understand it clearly from Scripture.

Can anyone help shed light on this for me?