Predestination

[Hammster]

2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life."

 

[Hammster]

Quote your source. Or is this just your


Reformers claim that man cannot be free to choose or accept God's grace because this would limit God's sovereignty.

Don't ask me to defend this view, that's your problem.

No. Reformers say that man, when left alone with his free will, will never choose to repent. This has been explained over and over. I am not asking you to believe it, but at least quit with the silly straw-man attacks.

 

[chestertonrules]

No. Reformers say that man, when left alone with his free will, will never choose to repent. This has been explained over and over. I am not asking you to believe it, but at least quit with the silly straw-man attacks.

Man is not left alone with his free will, Jesus draws man to himself.

Calvinists deny that God allows man the opportunity to accept God's grace and follow his will.

Calvinists claim only those God draws irresistibly will be saved.

They say that if God allows man to accept or reject his grace then it will reduce God's sovereignty.

You can try to deny this but you are only playing a semantics game.

 

[chestertonrules]

2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life."

God will grant repentence to those who earnestly seek it. Nothing I have a problem with there.

Here's something you deny.

Titus 2
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

 

[Montalban]

Just pointing out that it had already been addressed. More than once.

Claims of victories past is also not debate.

 

[Montalban]

[*]What is the context? Is it possible that Jesus meant all types of men? Especially when you look at John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

I agree totally. No man by his own efforts alone can get to God, God must be a willing actor in this scenario. But so must man. And your quote doesn't say God limits his gift to a select few.

What about this passage...?
2 Timothy 2:21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter,
he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master,
prepared for every good work.

 

[Montalban]

God will grant repentence to those who earnestly seek it. Nothing I have a problem with there.

Indeed, no one denies that God must extend the invitation. What Hammster believes is that it's limited to a few

 

[Hammster]

Claims of victories past is also not debate.

I was talking about in this thread.

 

[PeaceinJesus]

I thought it actually simplified things.

Nah it makes it more complex. If it's my decision I find it much easier to understand

 

[Montalban]

I was talking about in this thread.

So was I

 

[Montalban]

Nah it makes it more complex. If it's my decision I find it much easier to understand

It's a two player act; God offers, we accept or reject.

On the predestination mode God doesn't even have to offer, he's going to take you, kicking and screaming to be saved whether you like it or not.

 

[Hammster]

It's a two player act; God offers, we accept or reject.

On the predestination mode God doesn't even have to offer, he's going to take you, kicking and screaming to be saved whether you like it or not.

Look at that. Another straw-man argument. Will it ever end?

 

[chestertonrules]

Look at that. Another straw-man argument. Will it ever end?

You just don't like to be confronted with the teachings of Calvinism, apparently.

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist.

The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP

 

[Hammster]

So was I

I wasn't claiming victory. In fact, whether or not you ever come to believe in the Doctrines of Grace is irrelevant. I don't even care if you debate it vigorously. It is the constant false charges against Calvinism that frustrates me, especially when your trumped up charges have been dealt with. It would be nice if you just said you disagreed with the view.

 

[Hammster]

You just don't like to be confronted with the teachings of Calvinism, apparently.

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist.

The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP

I did a word search on kicking and screaming. Couldn't find it. Can you show me where in the document that people go unwillingly?

 

[chestertonrules]

I did a word search on kicking and screaming. Couldn't find it. Can you show me where in the document that people go unwillingly?

More semantics. "You cannot resist" Seems clear to me.

 

[Hammster]

Try this one: Election

 

[Hammster]

More semantics. "You cannot resist" Seems clear to me.

Actually, I did see that. I disagree with that assessment.

 

[chestertonrules]

Try this one: Election

What did God know about those he foreknew?

Their faith, their works, their confessions, their endurance?

Is there anything God didn't know about them?

 

[chestertonrules]

Actually, I did see that. I disagree with that assessment.

I guess Calvinist Corner should change their name.

Here's a different site. Same meaning:

Irresistible Grace

The result of God's Irresistible Grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit,

Calvinism Soteriology Topics