Predestination

[MamaZ]

God wishes that we all turn to him, but he also wishes us to do this freely.

God didn't create us like the animals, who know no sin.

Who said anything about man being created like the animals without sin? God is complete sovereign..He is creator and Molder of all things. He is the Alpha and the Omega..He predestines when things will happen and when they will not. Only He knows when Christ will return for His bride. Do you know when Christ will return? He knows who are His before even the foundation of the world. For He has predestined this.

 

[Montalban]

BUMP

Cornelius was a Gentile, not a Jew. He could not be classified as one of the elect, but God accepted him based on his faith, Acts 10:4. He had faith in God even though God didn't ordain any Gentile to receive the gospel at this time. God turned to the Gentiles with salvation later in Acts 11:1. These verses are contradictory to the erroneous theologies of Total Depravity or Total Inability and Unconditional Election.

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout [man] and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God."

Acts 11:1 Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

Acts 11:17 "If therefore God gave them the same gift as [He] [gave] us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Bible Life Ministries - God's Election and Man's Free Will

 

[Albion]

Universalism belongs on the unorthodox theology forum, Montalban.

 

[chestertonrules]

Universalism belongs on the unorthodox theology forum, Montalban.

Where do childish straw dogs belong?

 

[chestertonrules]

My God gets everything He wants constantly, and there is a lot that He hates, therefore He wants to reveal what He hates.

.

Does God want you to sin? Do you ever sin?

Does God want the wicked to repent? Do all the wicked repent?

 

[chestertonrules]

As it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.



.

This is rhetoric that must be understood in context.

Paul tells us that Tit2:11 the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

So man does not have to seek God initially. Grace stands at the door and knocks.

I think we agree on this point.

The difference between you and I is that you think you and your fellow elect are special.

But God loves all men and wants them to repent, even the wicked.

I've provided multiple passages that make this clear.

 

[Albion]

The Biblical teaching of Predestination has been thoroughly explained on this forum. Those who are opposed have persisted in ignoring the explanations--not just the rationale, but the explanation of what Predestination MEANS--and have chosen instead to ridicule their own stereotype of the belief. That is why no one else is willing to explain it to them once again.

If any on the Freewill side of the issue would actually confront the reasons given for accepting Predestination as it is understand and believed in by those who do, I'm sure that the rest of us would be willing to explain further. But more strawman arguments? No.

 

[chestertonrules]

The Biblical teaching of Predestination has been thoroughly explained on this forum. .

True.

Biblical predestination has little in common with Calvism, which is extrabiblical heresy.

 

[Hammster]

Well, so much for hoping for no more straw-man comments.

 

[chestertonrules]

Well, so much for hoping for no more straw-man comments.

It's not a straw man, as I have demonstrated.

You have consistently ignored the scripture I've posted, and with good reason! These are explicit rejections of Calvinism.

Eze 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Is 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

1 Tim 2
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Matt 23
37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

 

[Hammster]

It's not a straw man, as I have demonstrated.



You have consistently ignored the scripture I've posted, and with good reason! These are explicit rejections of Calvinism.



Eze 33:11

Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!



2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.



Is 55:7

Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.



1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.



Matt 23

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

I will address these later when I have access to my laptop.

 

[MamaZ]

True.

Biblical predestination has little in common with Calvism, which is extrabiblical heresy.

 

[Albion]

"...they follow me. I give them eternal life,, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." -- Jesus.

John 10.27-28

 

[Montalban]

It's not a straw man, as I have demonstrated.

I think that's what happens when people have no answer to you.

 

[chestertonrules]

"...they follow me. I give them eternal life,, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." -- Jesus.

John 10.27-28

But they can walk away.

If we don't follow, we won't be saved. Jesus does not force us to follow.

 

[Montalban]

"...they follow me. I give them eternal life,, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." -- Jesus.

John 10.27-28

Are they compelled to follow? What of Judas who followed and was snatched away?

 

[Montalban]

But they can walk away.

If we don't follow, we won't be saved. Jesus does not force us to follow.

And Judas did follow... for a while

 

[Montalban]

Universalism belongs on the unorthodox theology forum, Montalban.

Thanks for the straw-man. You must have missed where I mentioned some people choose to reject God.

I believe in Free-Will

Predestination - those selected, whether they like it or not, is unorthodox theology.

Universalism (or Apocatastasis) - also is a rejection of Free-Will, because no matter what you have chosen, you'll still end up with the same result

 

[ashout]

I see it like this, God saw us and how we would turn out before we were born, and chose either to save us or to let us remain in darkness forever based on what he saw then. So by the time we're born, we're already predestined to either live, or die, but it was predestined that way becuase of how we are going to live.

 

[chestertonrules]

I see it like this, God saw us and how we would turn out before we were born, and chose either to save us or to let us remain in darkness forever based on what he saw then. So by the time we're born, we're already predestined to either live, or die, but it was predestined that way becuase of how we are going to live.

I think that is consistent with the bible:

Romans 8
29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.


Is there anything about us that God didn't foreknow?

ie. our faith, our works, our prayers, our sins, our repentence, etc.