pre-trib

[timlamb]

I promised myself I wouldn't post in another rapture thread...but that statement just is so blantently incorrect I feel compelled to address it.

Rev. 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev. 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

There are "coincidentally" 2 Churches that the Lord found no fault with: Smyrna and Philadelphia...the Church is mentioned in Chapter 11.

These are not the "church" the "bride" of Christ. Being that this (rev. 11:4) is about the two witnesses post rapture. I may be wrong according to post trib belief, but not to my pre trib faith.

 

[EturnaL]

Pre trib is the only Biblically supported rapture teaching.

 

[timlamb]

 

[icedtea]

I agree.

 

[jeffweeder]

why is it then that every time Jesus uses the word tribulation, its to do with enduring it?

MATT-24:21-;24:29-; MARK 13:24- JOHN 16 :33


AND look how the epistles prepare us ,when tribulation is mentioned

Acts 14:22-, rom 5:3- ; 8:35-; 12:12
2cor 1:4; 7:4
1thes 3:4
2thes 1:6
rev 1:9

As soon as Jesus appears in the atmosphere, The dead are raised, and in the twinkling of the eyelid, we will be changed.

Jesus was the first to suggest that his coming was to be like a theif.

Why does he use the same expression at the 6th Bowl of Rev ?

He promised to return and he is reminding you of it.
Can you imagine him saying that if the Church was not here?
2pet 3 reminds his readers of Jesus words by saying he comes like a theif.

We have this word rapture , because of the translation of "caught up" in 1 thess 4:17.
But this Catching away is not until the lord descends- the changing/ressurection happens, then we are redeemed in body, and will be able to inherit the kingdom of God.
2nd coming
ressurection
caught up.

We can not be caught away, beforehand, as Paul says that we will not precede those who have died in christ already.

 

[icedtea]

If we are caught up at the end, and the sinners die, who is left to repopulate?

 

[calidog]

Any thoughts?

yes....pre-trib rules!!

 

[jeffweeder]

If we are caught up at the end, and the sinners die, who is left to repopulate?

nobody is left - we look to a new heaven and a new earth in which rightousness dwells dont we?

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells

 

[icedtea]

Not so fast! What of the nations who go up to pay tribute to Jesus? If they don't, they get no rain. And the man who dies at 100 will be considered a child?
People live and give birth after Jesus returns. Satan gets loosed and many nations try and fight Jesus again.

 

[jeffweeder]

I try and answer your qu "s howarddean, but you never try and answer mine.

understand what the prophets and apostles have already said about it-
no ressurectioin-no rapture.
no second coming, no ressurection from the dead
No ress, no hope.

Theres hope, and he promised to raise us the last day.

 

[calidog]

why is it then that every time Jesus uses the word tribulation, its to do with enduring it?

Rev. 3:10 ??

 

[Zadok7000]

If we are caught up at the end, and the sinners die, who is left to repopulate?

We are all CHANGED. Good, bad and ugly. The flesh is no more.

 

[Zadok7000]

People live and give birth after Jesus returns.

Scripture please for giving birth in the Millennium?

 

[calidog]

Scripture please for giving birth in the Millennium?

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

[Zadok7000]

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Where is the "giving birth" verse?

 

[Zadok7000]

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Let me repeat that: There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days

There will be NO babies or old men. Flesh is done. ALL are in spiritual bodies in the Millennium.

 

[calidog]

still looking for more verses that show the world will continue to populate during the milenium.

 

[Zadok7000]

still looking for more verses that show the world will continue to populate during the milenium.

Do you not understand that the earth will be fully populated with SPIRITUAL bodies? The flesh is gone at the 7th trumpet.

 

[calidog]

Let me repeat that: There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days

There will be NO babies or old men. Flesh is done. ALL are in spiritual bodies in the Millennium.

Isa 65:20 There shall no more be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who dies prematurely; for the child shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner who dies when only a hundred years old shall be [thought only a child, cut off because he is] accursed.

 

[timlamb]

why is it then that every time Jesus uses the word tribulation, its to do with enduring it?

MATT-24:21-;24:29-; MARK 13:24- JOHN 16 :33


AND look how the epistles prepare us ,when tribulation is mentioned

Acts 14:22-, rom 5:3- ; 8:35-; 12:12
2cor 1:4; 7:4
1thes 3:4
2thes 1:6
rev 1:9

As soon as Jesus appears in the atmosphere, The dead are raised, and in the twinkling of the eyelid, we will be changed.

Jesus was the first to suggest that his coming was to be like a theif.

Why does he use the same expression at the 6th Bowl of Rev ?

He promised to return and he is reminding you of it.
Can you imagine him saying that if the Church was not here?
2pet 3 reminds his readers of Jesus words by saying he comes like a theif.

We have this word rapture , because of the translation of "caught up" in 1 thess 4:17.
But this Catching away is not until the lord descends- the changing/ressurection happens, then we are redeemed in body, and will be able to inherit the kingdom of God.
2nd coming
ressurection
caught up.

We can not be caught away, beforehand, as Paul says that we will not precede those who have died in christ already.

Jesus spoke of it all, rapture and tribulation and His final comming. It depends on the author and audience of the book as to how it is discussed. Matthew heavely quoted Jesus concerning the tribulation because his focus audience was Jews. Luke shared the Gospel with gentiles and the tribulation was not and issue.

The difference I have noticed, in a nutshell, is that in the rapture Jesus leaves the world unaltered accept for removing the church. At the second comming there is wrath and judgement and battle and an end to the tribulation. Look at Matthew 24:36-44, there is none of the second comming issues.

Jesus does not return to the earth in the rapture, He takes to Church out. Two being together and one is taken without the knowledge of the other. The earth is changed as a result of realizing the rapture has happened; many know of it but do not have faith.