pre-trib

[timlamb]

Timblamb,

I agree with your last post, those who are raptured are taken when He comes and that is what the verse is saying. The dead are raised first and then they which are alive and remain are taken after the dead have reigned with Him for the thousand year reign, which could be either a literal thousnad years our time or a day, God's time.

Hismessenger

Sorry, I don't think that is quite what I said, or meant anyway.

Those raptured return with Him, after the wedding, so they are already His and transformed and dressed in fine linen on that day.

 

[timlamb]

Matt.24:40-41 DOES NOT speak of peace and safety as you must NOT take Scripture out of context, you don't handle Scripture properly. Do you need help in biblical interpretation or provoking something else? By the looks of the amount of posts, it is something else.

I should report you for a rude post, but I won't unless you are rude to someone else.

Interpreted, those scriptures say many things. Preparing food, working in the field, sleeping, all depict a time of the day, all happening at the same instant showing a world wide event. That Christians and unsaved are working and sleeping side by side shows the church and the world are still co-existing, or at peace, with each other so it is before the second half of the tribulation period when Christians are persecuted to death world wide. And Christians no declaring allegience to the beast would not be allowed to work and would not be along side a person who had taken the number of man.

I would not have ask for 'thoughts' if I was in absolute certainty of my own interpretation, but you made no attempted to discuss scripture and explain your self.

There is no rapture after the thousand year reign or the second comming for that matter, Christ will be ruling, what would be the point.

So my point is, this sceen does not depict in any way the Revelation 19 or second comming, or any other depiction of the circumstances surrounding the second comming. And there is no way this fits the message of the wrath of the tribulation preceeding the second comming of Christ.

If you can make the verses I spoke of in my OP fit any of these well described events of the end times, I am listening. If you just want to be rude, I am not listening.

What does the number of post have to do with it? This is a discussion board, I discuss.

Blessings,
Tim

 

[A Brother In Christ]

how does fear mature anyone....?

OT law had fear.. and no man is justified by the works of the law....

Titus 2:13 looking for that happy hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

if going thru the trib ... why would it be happy!

In rev 4:10-11 there are saints getting crowns right before the Great Trib

only the church is promised crowns!
1 thes 2:19
2 tim 4:8
james 1:12
1 peter 5:4
1 cor 9:25

That didn't even answer my question. Where did I say anything about fearing maturing?

this is not the point .... We the church are in the dispensation of grace ....

 

[A Brother In Christ]

how is it that you see yourself taken before the dead in Christ. Are you going to die in order to be resurrected/ raptured for only the dead in Christ will be taken first.

The dead in Christ are resurrected on earth then the church will meet Him in the 2nd heaven[space] and return to heaven...

the church is the firstfruit along with Christ .. romans 8:23 .. 1 john 3:2, 1 cor 15:51-54, 1 thes 4:16-17

Then when the Holy Spirit returns to heaven during the tribulation 2 thes 2:2-10

the beast is let loose by Satan and the great Tribulation is under way

At the end of the Great Tribulation were the wrath of the lamb[rev 6:16, 14:10,19 the wrath of Satan [rev 12:12] , and the wrath of the harlot[rev 18:3]

romans 5:9.. we shall be saved from the wrath through him
1 thes 1:10b even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

eph 5:6 ... for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the son's of disobedience.

This is what the word says. THe dead in Christ rise first. This is undeniable by the word. It says nothing about a rapture before this occurs or else the word of God would not be true. There is no secret rapture.

Hismessenger

yet with scripture [God's words] states differently than your words

 

[Hismessenger]

Brother,
See my post on the new pretrib thread.

Hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

answer these scriptural verses

 

[Hismessenger]

Brother,

Why would they need to return to the earth when all that will be left are the wicked to face the wrath of God. For they will have been judged and accounted worthy to serve the lamb in heaven. When Christ comes it will be for the judgement, then those found rigteous are taken in the gathering while those who are not are left to face the wrath of God.

This is the essence of the judgement when Jesus comes;

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

This will be the state of the world when Jesus comes to take His people home.

Hismessenger

 

[GLJCA]

Throughout Scripture we see that Christ returns to crush the powers of the world at the time of the end and set up and deliver the kingdom into the hands of His people, His elect. I believe there is a spiritual side to this as well, or a side that we perhaps will not see. There is an angel of perdition whose time of release is around the time of the end (when he will no longer be restrained in a pit of darkness) and it would seem he and Satan work with and through this man of sin, or son of perdition. Through lies and false miracles the world is deceived. Then the world, for a time, is delivered into his control and those that follow him will follow him into destruction (reference Rev 14:10-11; 17:11).

There are several discrepancies in your thinking here because you apparently follow a Dispensational thinking instead of following scripture.
Psa 110:1 ¶ The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
This is the most requoted verse in the Bible. We find it alluded to again in 1Cor 15.
1Cor 15: 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Does this speak of Christ coming down to conquer His enemies? No the Bible never says that. What it says is that Jesus will sit on the right hand of the Father until His enemies are made His footstool.

How will that be done? Well, we see Jesus in Rev 19 coming down on a white horse and a sword comes out of His mouth. Is that sword literal? Will an actual sword come out of His mouth to smite the nations? No the sword is the Word of God or the gospel of Jesus Christ. What happens when someone is confronted with the gospel? Well we were enemies of Christ before we heard and believed the gospel.
Ro 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
The gospel of Jesus Christ conquers the enemies of Christ until all are made His footstool. Until then Christ will be seated on the right hand of the Father reigning over His kingdom.

GLJCA

 

[JerryShugart]

Does this speak of Christ coming down to conquer His enemies? No the Bible never says that. What it says is that Jesus will sit on the right hand of the Father until His enemies are made His footstool.

GLJCA,

You need to look at Psalm 110 and Psalm 2 again because both of those Psalms make it plain that the Lord Jesus will be the one will return and destroy His enemies.

“The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule Thou in the midst of thine enemies” (Ps.110:1,2).

The Lord Jesus will remain at the right hand of the Father until the Father makes the Lord Jesus’ enemies his footstool. And in the same Psalm we are told exactly how the enemies of the Lord Jesus will be made His footstool:

“The Lord at Thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath. He shall judge among the heathen, He shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries” (Ps.110:5,6).

That is exactly the same truth revealed in Psalm 2.

“Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for Thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel” (Ps.2:8,9).

For a fuller treatment of these two Psalms you can go to the following site:

http://kaydydid.com/lastdays/restitution.html

In His grace,--Jerry