pre-trib

[jeffweeder]

Thus the day of Christ and our gathering unto Him cannot happen until the man of sin is revealed.[/quote]


I agree

2 thess 2
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Harlan Norris]

Matthew 24:40,41 and Luke 17:34,35 speak of the rapture. They tell a story of time, a globle moment. They tell of the sudden and unexpected event at a peaceful time. They also speak of a time when believers and nonbelievers work and live and sleep side by side. Through this we can know that the rapture will come at a time of peace between the church and the world. This is comforting as we are able to see in these passages that we who are raptured, by grace and mercy, "...may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.". Luke 21:36

Any thoughts?

I wish I had a dollar for every time I'd read this. Matt;24,is a timeline of events leading to the last trump,which occours after the tribulation. We need to gird ourselves,because we're going through. Hold to this world,and fail. Hold to God by doing the commandments of Jesus,and living by his example,and enter heaven. It's written,clear as day.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[icedtea]

I Always wondered about the waiting 45 days.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[timlamb]

great discussion people. But I see the rapture as pre trib for several reasons. Christ gathers his church for the marriage supper and they then ride back to earth for the triumphant return. When He gathers the elect, the dead first and then those who are alive, we are transformed at that instand. That doesn't fit with the battle of Christs return to earth. The rapture is spoken of as a silent gathering, only the church will hear the trumpet and we are gathered an taken to heaven. The second comming is Christs return to earth to prepare for His milenial reign. In the rapture Jesus comes only for the believers in the sky, to gather them up. The second comming is marked by the dispensing of God's wrath.

The rapture is what brings the 144000 Jews to the truth of Jesus and through the instruction of Matthew's gospel and the rvelation to John, the prepare for the horrors that await.

In Revelation the marrage of the bride and the Lamb takes place 19:7-9. and then in verse 11 he begins to describe the return of Christ with the armies of heaven to stop the tribulation and the suffering and begin His reign.

I'm sorry, I am just learning this stuff. But you must look at the rapture and second comming as two events. Through the new testament the Lord is anticipated at any minute, that is the rapture, there is nothing standing in the way of Christ returning for the church, His bride. It is quite plane however that much must take place before the return of Christ to reign. I think it important that we keep these things in perspective and not argue, that would not be pleasing to God. I doubt we can fully understand until we are transformed.

 

[icedtea]

Thats true. If we were raptured up to meet Jesus and immediately returned with Him, when would the marriage have been?

 

[vinsight4u]

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[icedtea]

Part of the problem seems to be Revelation wasn't written in chronological order.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[timlamb]

Part of the problem seems to be Revelation wasn't written in chronological order.

This is very true. Since the secondcomming brings an end to the tribulation, I am not sure how anyone could take more than a mid trib approach if they see a rapture at all. But rervelation speaks plainly of the tribulation mayrters, and those are not the raptured nor have they yet been transformed when they are referenced, as those "caught up" are transformed.

The church is not mentioned in revelation beyound chapter 4. Nothing is mentioned of believers except those who suffer and are martyred. The passive rapture of Matthew and Luke could not happen in this time. The rapture starts those times.

What holds back great evil now is the Holy spirit, and the restrainer leaves with the church, bride, so unleashing the terrors of that time.

 

[timlamb]

John saw seals 1-6 opened....since the 4th seal brought forth the rider / ac time man

we get Rev. 7 next to get a better understanding of what happens from the time of the fourth seal to the 7th seal.

first seal...third seal

.....144,000 sealed by the we angels as the time of the four corners wicked rider is coming upon Israel

The 144000 come to belief because of the rapture. What else could trigger such a change of heart in the Jewish world than realising they were wrong about Jesus?

 

[icedtea]

We are definitely on the same page, tim. If I may, I wonder myself, how do the people left behind get saved (as they do) without the Holy Spirit?

 

[timlamb]

We are definitely on the same page, tim. If I may, I wonder myself, how do the people left behind get saved (as they do) without the Holy Spirit?

I imagine how empty my heart would be without the Holy Spirit and wonder that myself. But then I am reminded that it is by Gods grace and mercy that we are saved, and in those days there will be no gray area. The line will be drawn and those confessing faith will be martyred. I think we should take this knowledge as a reminder not to become complacent, we too must have the faith to be martyred for Christ or we are luke warm and not fit for the kingdom.

The Holy spirit is our helper, what a time this would be even now to resist temptation without Him. We must not stop relying on Him but pray for the strength to face persecution and trial, and willingly take the tests before us.

Just some thoughts.

Bless You HD

 

[bkhoward2001]

I do not hold to the pre-trib stance. The rapture will not occur until the end of the 7 year period. We will have to be a light during those times to the unsaved in order to help bring them to Christ. These will be very perilious times and we must be prepared for all tribulations, both spiritual and physical.

 

[icedtea]

We do differ, but only time will tell.

 

[timlamb]

I do not hold to the pre-trib stance. The rapture will not occur until the end of the 7 year period. We will have to be a light during those times to the unsaved in order to help bring them to Christ. These will be very perilious times and we must be prepared for all tribulations, both spiritual and physical.

from what the bible says about the tribulation, it will take more than convincing words to change hearts, only a rapture like event will open the eyes, particularly in a world absent of the Holy Spirit. and I don't expect Christians will be working and resting with non-Christians during those times of persecution. During the time of the mark, 666, the seperation will be huge.