Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

[HumbleServant94]

Mass delusion? Honestly!

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Point to one scripture that says the church fights the anti-christ's armies.

Rev 19:19-20 ~ And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Do you think that we are just going to sit there and look stupid? We are an army!!
Verse 20 doesn't say a thing about Jesus Himself destroying the antichrist armies alone. Personally, I hope that we do fight, after the hell on earth that Satan has put the world through with all of the lies, deceptions and false doctrines, I will be cheering!!!!!

Prove that Matt 24 is referring to the reign of the anti-christ. The words "Abomination of Desolation" are not found in Revelation.

Why prove it? You will just twist it with your off the wall rendention of what you think the bible states and not what it REALLY states. I'm done with that. I'm hardly on here anymore, and for darn good reasons!! Time is to short for nonsense!! Want to find out about it...go to the book of Daniel chapter 9.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Mass delusion? Honestly!

Yep, honestly!! If you can't explain Matt 24:29:31 immediately after the tribulation of those days, then Yep, honestly!! It's as plain as day in that chapter. God isn't blinding a lot of the church..Satan is.

 

[sonic purity]

Look like a good thread, I am subscribing so I can read it when I get time.

 

[HumbleServant94]

Yep, honestly!! If you can't explain Matt 24:29:31 immediately after the tribulation of those days, then Yep, honestly!! It's as plain as day in that chapter. God isn't blinding a lot of the church..Satan is.

Yes Satan deceives the church. But not with pre-trib theology. Just what evil does pre-trib theology do? We'll know what will happen if we stay here. We'll have plenty of time to prepare before 3 1/2 years. Right there in the Bible.

 

[sonic purity]

If satan is doing anything, it is to get pre and post tribbers to argue with each other and create discourse. What happens when you are all wrong about the way you interpret the scriptures? Can you take back harsh words said to one another? When Christ comes for his church, do you really think He is going to care if you thought he was coming before or after he really does? It really doesnt matter when he come, what matters is if we are ready for Him.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I have often wondered if there would be any significant difference between pre-tribbers going through the tribulation then post trib believers..which I am post. The bible states in John 8:32... And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Does that mean that those who do not see the truth are in more serious peril during the tribulation then those who are post who have received the truth?

Read Jn 8 in context ....vs 34 free from the OSN

truth is about knowing God... john 17:3 , phil 3:10, 3jn 3-4

The reason that I have these questions is because I was pre-trib for 35 years..post for about 5 years now. When I was pre-trib, it seemed like I had less worries about what was coming on the earth because I wouldn't be here. When I first discovered that post trib catching away was the truth, I was in shock for awhile, but now I am at peace knowing what to expect...and actually more grateful to God for showing me the truth since it has sunk in. In 2 Tim 4:3-4 it states this... For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Key word... itching ears... = soulish teaching

Jn 4:24.... worship in spirit and truth

Human ... Jesus on earth.... soulish .. 2 cor 5:16 , 2 cor 11:3-4

Now I believe that this has been going on since "whoever" started the pre-trib "fable." It has followed a long line of well known bible scholars/teachers such as John Darby, even as most recent, Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHay, and even preachers are expounding it on the Christian channels on TV. John Hagee, the pompous hypocrite that he is, said one day while I was watching 3 years ago, that the post trib rapture is the biggest lie that Satan ever perpetrated. He even said..DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!! I haven't watched him since.
Now, I am wondering if people that follow this teaching and believe in a pre-trib rapture are going to be totally blind sided once the tribulation hits. God expects every one of us to search His Word for ourselves, and not rely on the truth of mans gospel from the pulpit, or what we have heard from our families carried down to us. Will this be considered believing a Satanic deception and pay the penalty in the end? If they can't even see the post trib rapture in the Word, will they even know who the Antichrist is once he is revealed? The bible doesn't really say anything about believing a "time line" lie, but it does say something about believing unsound doctrine. I DO believe that Satan started this lie for a very good reason...what is that reason and for what purpose?
I do believe that those who are full of what Word will know what is going on once this starts..unless they freak out thinking..OH NO, the rapture didn't happen. What do I do now??!! These are just some thoughts that I have had roaming through my head for awhile.

We are not judged in wrath by God.... Jn 3:18, 1 thes 1:10, 1 thes 5:9

We are judged by Christ work... 2 cor 5:21

not our own... that is for unbelievers... rev 20:11-15, 2 cor 11:13-15

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Rev 19:19-20 ~ And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Do you think that we are just going to sit there and look stupid? We are an army!!
Verse 20 doesn't say a thing about Jesus Himself destroying the antichrist armies alone. Personally, I hope that we do fight, after the hell on earth that Satan has put the world through with all of the lies, deceptions and false doctrines, I will be cheering!!!!!

When Christ comes to destroy the army formed against Him, He comes with the angels. (as opposed to appearing with the saints, for the saints)

Mat 25:31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.

Mar 8:38If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."


Mat 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

Why prove it? You will just twist it with your off the wall rendention of what you think the bible states and not what it REALLY states. I'm done with that. I'm hardly on here anymore, and for darn good reasons!! Time is to short for nonsense!! Want to find out about it...go to the book of Daniel chapter 9.

Because you can't. Matt 24/Mark 13/Luke 21 DO NOT MENTION THE ANTI-CHRIST. They tell you everything that happens from Christ's death/ascension to the abom of des of 70AD until the end comes. The beginning of the end is when the sun/moon darken/stars fall.

The anti-christ doesn't come to power until satan is cast down to the earth when the sun/moon darken and "the end" or the Day of Wrath/Lord begins.

 

[Hismessenger]

HisdaughterJen

your time line is twisted for Satan was cast to the earth tomorrow for today doesn't exsist in eternity. It is always and forever today. How do you think that Satan came to be in the garden if He is still to be cast out in the future. The word says the beast who was and is yet isn't to paraphrase it means that he is already defeated before he made his first move against God tomorrow,

Can you hear this.

hismessenger

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

When Christ comes to destroy the army formed against Him, He comes with the angels. (as opposed to appearing with the saints, for the saints)

Mat 25:31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.

Mar 8:38If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."


Mat 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

Rev 19:7 ~ Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Rev 19:14 ~ And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The angels will be here for this event as they are the ones who performed the judgments and gathered the elect in Matt 24:31. Angels are not the righteous Saints in this army clothed in fine linen who face the Antichrist armies!!

Because you can't. Matt 24/Mark 13/Luke 21 DO NOT MENTION THE ANTI-CHRIST. They tell you everything that happens from Christ's death/ascension to the abom of des of 70AD until the end comes. The beginning of the end is when the sun/moon darken/stars fall.

The anti-christ doesn't come to power until satan is cast down to the earth when the sun/moon darken and "the end" or the Day of Wrath/Lord begins.

Geesh!! Satan has already been cast from heaven, but you will never see that will you ? When did you become a partial Preterist? I thought you were a Free Methodist according to your user info?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Yes Satan deceives the church. But not with pre-trib theology. Just what evil does pre-trib theology do? We'll know what will happen if we stay here. We'll have plenty of time to prepare before 3 1/2 years. Right there in the Bible.

Since you said "if" we stay here, then evidently you aren't settled in your mind on not being here. I was pre-trib for 35 years. It took me a good year to accept the FACT that we will be here. I wouldn't count on plenty of time to prepare your mind regarding this. Events are moving pretty fast in the direction of the Great Tribulation period. The worlds economy is setting up right now for the man with all of the "supposed" answers to the worlds problems.
As far as "pre-trib" theology, it's a lie. Are we supposed to believe a lie? This lie is a mass deception already in the making by the spirit of the Antichrist for a reason. I personally believe that it is because the church is going to go apostate according to the bible before he takes rulership, and he will have a lot of followers who will believe that he is Christ returned. Satan isn't stupid. He is a master deceiver!!

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The church itself will NEVER "go apostate", as you claim. That is not Biblical.

But, many rogue "christian" religions have been established in the last 150 years that are misleading millions because they choose to follow the religion instead of seeking God.

There is a great deal of Biblical evidence that Christ appears in the sky with the spirits of those who have fallen asleep in Him and their bodies will rise and we will be caught up to meet Christ in the air....all happening BEFORE the Day of Wrath begins when the sun/moon darken/stars fall. It is written in Scripture, therefore it is TRUTH.

We have been warned that the devil will be preparing to devour us when we are snatched up. With all the warnings about nuclear and biological attacks and wars in the making and such hatred of Christianity, I have no doubt that the time is now. Keep looking up!

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

The church itself will NEVER "go apostate", as you claim. That is not Biblical.

The TRUE church of Jesus Christ won't go apostate. Just who is a TRUE member of the TRUE church, and how do you know that you are a part of the TRUE church? Do people try to get to heaven on their own righteousness, or the righteousness that we obtained through faith in Jesus Christ? Do we ad hear to the TRUE tenants of the faith...or make it up as we go along to suit our own trumped up beliefs and what we HOPE is the TRUTH?

But, many rogue "Christian" religions have been established in the last 150 years that are misleading millions because they choose to follow the religion instead of seeking God.

Oh, you mean just like on here? Just out of curiosity, what faiths do you consider as "rogue" Christians?

There is a great deal of Biblical evidence that Christ appears in the sky with the spirits of those who have fallen asleep in Him and their bodies will rise and we will be caught up to meet Christ in the air....all happening BEFORE the Day of Wrath begins when the sun/moon darken/stars fall. It is written in Scripture, therefore it is TRUTH.

It is your truth. The problem that you are having, is understanding that the Day of The Lord and the Second Coming are the same day. We are out of here right before the wrath hits. Second coming is in Rev 11:15 with the last angel with the last trumpet sounding, and the wrath begins in that same chapter in verse 18. We are receiving rewards when the wrath hits in that same verse, so no way are we present for the wrath. Now that's biblical.

We have been warned that the devil will be preparing to devour us when we are snatched up. With all the warnings about nuclear and biological attacks and wars in the making and such hatred of Christianity, I have no doubt that the time is now. Keep looking up!

Oh, just where does it say that the devil will be preparing to devour us when we are snatched up? If you are referring to this verse, this isn't the church...Rev12:4 ~ And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. This isn't the church, but the remnant of Israel. Israel is delivered right at the end of the tribulation, the houses of Jacob and Judah...Isaiah 1:24-27 ~ Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, (through the great tribulation) and HER converts with righteousness.
Isaiah 51:3 ~For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all HER waste places; and he will make HER wilderness like Eden, and HER desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
Isaiah 65:18-19 ~ But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and HER people a joy.
19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in HER, nor the voice of crying.
Jer 30:6-7 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7) Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
Corresponding verse...Matt 24:21 ~ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor EVER SHALL BE.


Israel is always referred to as HER, and she is BORN during the tribulation.


Oh, the time is very, very close, but not for what you are thinking is going to happen.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The TRUE church of Jesus Christ won't go apostate. Just who is a TRUE member of the TRUE church, and how do you know that you are a part of the TRUE church? Do people try to get to heaven on their own righteousness, or the righteousness that we obtained through faith in Jesus Christ? Do we ad hear to the TRUE tenants of the faith...or make it up as we go along to suit our own trumped up beliefs and what we HOPE is the TRUTH?

Those who are born of the Spirit are members of the church and will inherit the Kingdom.

Jhn 3:3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

Oh, you mean just like on here? Just out of curiosity, what faiths do you consider as "rogue" Christians?

the cults.

It is your truth. The problem that you are having, is understanding that the Day of The Lord and the Second Coming are the same day.

Yes, and it is 1000 years long. The Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath is the millennium. There is a time of testing known as the judgment and wrath that is the first 3.5 to 7 years of that Day. The 2nd coming of Jesus or the presence of the Lord begins when the sun/moon darken at the beginning of the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath. He will physically return with the angels when the beasts army forms against Him 3.5 years after the devil began to reign when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath began. How do you suppose the devil knows when to get that army together to prepare to fight Christ at His coming with the angels? The church is removed just before the sun/moon darken.

We are out of here right before the wrath hits. Second coming is in Rev 11:15 with the last angel with the last trumpet sounding, and the wrath begins in that same chapter in verse 18. We are receiving rewards when the wrath hits in that same verse, so no way are we present for the wrath. Now that's biblical.

The wrath begins EXACTLY when the Bible says it begins...when the sun/moon darken. Read the last line of Rev 6.

Oh, just where does it say that the devil will be preparing to devour us when we are snatched up? If you are referring to this verse, this isn't the church...Rev12:4 ~ And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. This isn't the church, but the remnant of Israel. Israel is delivered right at the end of the tribulation, the tribes of Jacob and Judah...Isaiah 1:24-27 ~ Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and HER converts with righteousness.
Isaiah 51:3 ~For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all HER waste places; and he will make HER wilderness like Eden, and HER desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
Isaiah 65:18-19 ~ But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and HER people a joy.
19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in HER, nor the voice of crying.
Israel is always referred to as HER.

baloney! The child that is snatched up to the throne of God out of reach of the devil is the church!

 

[A Brother In Christ]

[/font]
Read Jn 8 in context ....vs 34 free from the OSN

truth is about knowing God... john 17:3 , phil 3:10, 3jn 3-4

Key word... itching ears... = soulish teaching

Jn 4:24.... worship in spirit and truth

Human ... Jesus on earth.... soulish .. 2 cor 5:16 , 2 cor 11:3-4


We are not judged in wrath by God.... Jn 3:18, 1 thes 1:10, 1 thes 5:9

We are judged by Christ work... 2 cor 5:21

not our own... that is for unbelievers... rev 20:11-15, 2 cor 11:13-15

Big Mouth Nana ... are you going to respond....?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Since you said "if" we stay here, then evidently you aren't settled in your mind on not being here. I was pre-trib for 35 years. It took me a good year to accept the FACT that we will be here. I wouldn't count on plenty of time to prepare your mind regarding this. Events are moving pretty fast in the direction of the Great Tribulation period. The worlds economy is setting up right now for the man with all of the "supposed" answers to the worlds problems.
As far as "pre-trib" theology, it's a lie. Are we supposed to believe a lie? This lie is a mass deception already in the making by the spirit of the Antichrist for a reason. I personally believe that it is because the church is going to go apostate according to the bible before he takes rulership, and he will have a lot of followers who will believe that he is Christ returned. Satan isn't stupid. He is a master deceiver!!

When satan lied to eve ... He used the truth and twisted it to make it a a white lie... it you touch it you will die

God stated in dan 12:2,11-12 that the Jews are waiting for there glorified bodies ....

What is the mystery of 1 cor 15:51-54.... that they did not now of?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Those who are born of the Spirit are members of the church and will inherit the Kingdom.

Jhn 3:3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

How do you know that you are born again? Is it just a feeling that you have?

the cults.

That was short with no explanation. How do you know what a cult consists of? Even the Lord says this..Matt 7:21-23 ~ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people thought that they were truely saved!!

Yes, and it is 1000 years long. The Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath is the millennium. There is a time of testing known as the judgment and wrath that is the first 3.5 to 7 years of that Day. The 2nd coming of Jesus or the presence of the Lord begins when the sun/moon darken at the beginning of the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath. He will physically return with the angels when the beasts army forms against Him 3.5 years after the devil began to reign when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath began. How do you suppose the devil knows when to get that army together to prepare to fight Christ at His coming with the angels? The church is removed just before the sun/moon darken.

I give up The devil knows when to gather the beast armies because he has already been cast down to earth and has entered OBAMA by this time!! Satan enters the Antichrist BEFORE the armies are gathered because the JERK is here and has been since he was cast out eons ago. God has a time line, or the bible wouldn't state that he continues for 42 months..3.5 years. This is Gods timing, not Satans.

baloney! The child that is snatched up to the throne of God out of reach of the devil is the church!

It sure is baloney!!

 

[HisdaughterJen]

How do you know that you are born again? Is it just a feeling that you have?

No, it's not just a feeling. We hear Him. We live for Him. We have found treasure. We have entered the narrow gate. We have manifestations/gifts of the Spirit. We exhibit the fruit of the Spirit. There is nothing more important or more valuable to us. We have "tasted" it. We know that the Word of God is interactive...not just words on a page...it is alive. The temptation to sin is nothing compared to the Spirit that lives in us...we do not voluntarily, willfully sin anymore.

1 Cor 12
Matt 7
Romans 8
1 Cor 2
Gal 5

1Th 1:4For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,
1Th 1:5because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. ...




1Jo 3:9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.


1Jo 3:24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

That was short with no explanation. How do you know what a cult consists of? Even the Lord says this..Matt 7:21-23 ~ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people thought that they were truely saved!!

And why weren't they truly saved? Why did Jesus reject them? It was because they never came to Jesus. They never put their faith in Jesus. People today think that because they are a member of a religious organization, then they are saved and that's not true.

1Jo 3:23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

I give up The devil knows when to gather the beast armies because he has already been cast down to earth and has entered OBAMA by this time!! Satan enters the Antichrist BEFORE the armies are gathered because the JERK is here and has been since he was cast out eons ago. God has a time line, or the bible wouldn't state that he continues for 42 months..3.5 years. This is Gods timing, not Satans.

And satan certainly knows God's timing, doesn't he? Satan certainly fell from of heaven eons ago but he has never been cast down to the earth. He is still able to accuse the brothers just like he did with Job. As the Bible says:

Eph 6:12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

[get it right]

pre trib doctrine is from the bible
example, Christ comes on the clouds of heaven
post trib say if obama say, i am the christ, pre trib will believe it
many might believe but not pre trib who say according to scripture
he did not come on the clouds, just one thing
if obama say, i am christ then pre trib will say, this dude is an ac

 

[get it right]

more exactly, post trib say that pre trib are responsible for christians and others believing that the ac is Jesus, because post trib say that ac comes first
but pre trib do not only say that Jesus comes first- rapture- but that He comes in the clouds as is said in Gods written word
obama and the other ac canditates includind satan do not come in the clouds of heaven, only Christ comes in this manner