Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

[GoodNewsJournalist]

As I stated to you before Right, I can't explain eternity. But once we are translated, it will be as if we were always in heaven with Jesus Christ, from the foundations of the Earth.

When he comes back with us, we will see him and ourselves, and then be with him. . .

I can't explain eternity, but you are thinking of eternity as a sequence of time, and in heaven, when we are resurrected, there is no time. Time passes away, so, therefore, if time passes away, we will be there when God creates the world, and when Jesus comes back.

So, leave it be.

We are already in heaven.

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Sit is present tense, I already sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus!

If not, if it was future tense, it would have be and he will make us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Therefore, the Bible says I am already in heaven in Christ Jesus, and that when he returns with me, I will be changed in that twinkling of an eye when I see myself coming with him!

Don't ask me to explain any further, because that is a mystery to me, because it is too much for me to understand!

 

[get it right]

Yeah, God comes to defeat Christs enemies for he said, vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I will repay.

It is God who won the battle.

Christ is still sitting at the right hand of the father when this occurs.

You say it is the God - the Father that destroys all of Christ enemies.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


Sounds like Christ to me.


hismessenger

GoodNewsJournalist:
he only comes back to defeat all his enemies, and he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated here on the Earth.


Get it right:
He comes back to defeat all His enemies,
but he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated.
ummm.


Hm:
Yeah, God comes to defeat Christs enemies for he said, vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I will repay.


Ha ha, you don't understand what is being said yet you continually jump in and answer something that was not asked.
Look at what gnj said again, then the reply I gave and see if you can figure.

 

[get it right]

As I stated to you before Right, I can't explain eternity. But once we are translated, it will be as if we were always in heaven with Jesus Christ, from the foundations of the Earth.

When he comes back with us, we will see him and ourselves, and then be with him. . .

I can't explain eternity, but you are thinking of eternity as a sequence of time, and in heaven, when we are resurrected, there is no time. Time passes away, so, therefore, if time passes away, we will be there when God creates the world, and when Jesus comes back.

So, leave it be.

We are already in heaven.



Sit is present tense, I already sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus!

If not, if it was future tense, it would have be and he will make us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Therefore, the Bible says I am already in heaven in Christ Jesus, and that when he returns with me, I will be changed in that twinkling of an eye when I see myself coming with him!

Don't ask me to explain any further, because that is a mystery to me, because it is too much for me to understand!

yeah ok i will let it be.

 

[GoodNewsJournalist]

GoodNewsJournalist:
he only comes back to defeat all his enemies, and he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated here on the Earth.


Get it right:
He comes back to defeat all His enemies,
but he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated.
ummm.


Hm:
Yeah, God comes to defeat Christs enemies for he said, vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I will repay.


Ha ha, you don't understand what is being said yet you continually jump in and answer something that was not asked.
Look at what gnj said again, then the reply I gave and see if you can figure.

Yes, the victory will be won by the time Jesus comes back, and its the final battle of the War. He only comes down to win the victory.

He doesn't come down to get us before hand, because he doesn't have to, we are already there.

That's what you are not getting.

I'm going to be honest, you seem like you are determined to stay in darkness, because it's a nice feeling to feel that God will one day magically whisk you away, and you won't have to go through one trial to test your faith, or you want to perpetuate a lie!

 

[get it right]

Yes, the victory will be won by the time Jesus comes back, and its the final battle of the War. He only comes down to win the victory.

the victory will be won by the time jesus comes back you say, he only comes back to win the victory you say.
it will be won before he comes back, but he comes back to win it, you say.
He doesn't come down to get us before hand, because he doesn't have to, we are already there.

That's what you are not getting.

I'm going to be honest, you seem like you are determined to stay in darkness, because it's a nice feeling to feel that God will one day magically whisk you away, and you won't have to go through one trial to test your faith, or you want to perpetuate a lie!

some of you posties all sound the same, you sometimes say ridiculous things, and when challenged on them, you then come back with accusations that are so not true.

 

[Ghost air]

some of you posties all sound the same, you sometimes say ridiculous things, and when challenged on them, you then come back with accusations that are so not true.

No kidding, and it proves to me that they think that their own opinions of these things are beyond reproof.

So here GNJ was saying that you just want to stay in darkness and that you're perpetuating lies...? ? ?

That has post trib written all over it... and for a minute I thought he was going to be a little different than the others, but it's the same ol same ol..

 

[Hismessenger]

AS Visionary has said. If there are scripture which seem to contradict what it is that you believe then we, and notice I said we, need to take another look at what we are professing. For when we stand before Christ at the judgment, if you haven't found the truth, He will ask you, why, it was written for you to find. I sent messengers to tell you the truth and still you stand before me desolate.

hismessenger

 

[Ghost air]

AS Visionary has said. If there are scripture which seem to contradict what it is that you believe then we, and notice I said we, need to take another look at what we are professing. For when we stand before Christ at the judgment, if you haven't found the truth, He will ask you, why, it was written for you to find. I sent messengers to tell you the truth and still you stand before me desolate.

hismessenger

So this goes for YOU too, doesn't it ?

 

[Hismessenger]

I have no problem with this Ghost Air. The problem is that I go searching and find other scripture which supports what I believe and it says it straight out. It isn't what might be and I don't keep repeating the same ones because I can't find anymore to support what I have already given. This is the problem. Many only parrot the same scriptures because they can't find others to back them up without some stretch of the imagination. The truth can be confirmed from many quarters in the word and stands on it's own. All we need do is sincerely look for it and then post it for it cannot be refuted. Judgment begins in the house of the Lord so I make sure when I can that I am not going against the word. Man is another thing, unless he speaks the oracles of God with conviction. But you can be sure I'll look it up as the Bereans did.

In some places it's says that Christ comes with His church. In more than one other place It says that He comes with His angels. Now it must be understood if they are different or one and the same being talked about for the church can also be angels for an angel is one who is sent as well.

Jhn 7:18 He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sentis true, Him and no unrighteousness is in Him.

hismessenger

 

[Ghost air]

I have no problem with this Ghost Air. The problem is that I go searching and find other scripture which supports what I believe and it says it straight out. It isn't what might be and I don't keep repeating the same ones because I can't find anymore to support what I have already given. This is the problem. Many only parrot the same scriptures because they can't find others to back them up without some stretch of the imagination. The truth can be confirmed from many quarters in the word and stands on it's own. All we need do is sincerely look for it and then post it for it cannot be refuted. Judgment begins in the house of the Lord so I make sure when I can that I am not going against the word. Man is another thing, unless he speaks the oracles of God with conviction. But you can be sure I'll look it up as the Bereans did.

In some places it's says that Christ comes with His church. In more than one other place It says that He comes with His angels. Now it must be understood if they are different or one and the same being talked about for the church can also be angels for an angel is one who is sent as well.

hismessenger

Ya know, I never thought that I'd hear a believer try to tell me that they can't be wrong about what they interpret from the scriptures... but here it is folks... a person who actually believes that their own opinion of scripture is beyond reproof...

Have a nice life messenger... it's pointless to continue in any real conversation with a person who cannot fathom that they could be wrong.

See ya

 

[zeke37]

you never answered your comment that Christ won't return until all his enemies become His footstool.
rev 19 shows when he returns he still has enemies here on earth.

footstool....at His feet....Armageddon....

 

[Hismessenger]

Nice try Ghost air. I never said that I couldn't be wrong but I did say that the word is never wrong and it will show you the truth if you seek it with your whole heart. If It is the word and it says what it says then you must deal with it or deny it for yourself. The word is never wrong. If it says something other than what you believe, then it is up to you, just like it is up to me, to search it out I can't just disregard it for the knowledge that I already have. It is the manifold wisdom of God. I fyou go into the word with a preconceived idea, then you can find things which will agree with what you think. But if you go into the word seeking only for the truth, God can show you so much more than just the few scriptures on which you base a belief and build a doctrine.

A house built without a foundation will soon come crumbling back to the earth from which it sprang. You can say whatever you want about me for that's a childish game and I am not concerned with accusations. I am concerned that I do as God has directed me to do for your blood will not be on my head. and if I am wrong then God will make me pay for it. On that you can trust your life.

The word says ;

1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
1Jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

Does your heart condemn you Ghost air. Mine doesn't because I'm not here trying to prove a doctrine but only to present the truth and if that truth shows the doctrine to be in error then it is to the grace of God that he gives opportunity to repent and follow the right gospel. We won't have that opportunity forever on this side of the grave.

hismessenger

 

[zeke37]

nice post

 

[get it right]

footstool....at His feet....Armageddon....

you like some other posties answer things not even said.
is that confusion.

hm is saying that christ does not do any battle until the father has destroyed his enemies.
i gave scripture showing the word of god coming to battle satan and the armies of the world, but he claims it's the father.
perhaps you agree with him.

 

[Hismessenger]

No HM didn't say that Christ does not do battle, What Hm said is that it is the Father who cleans the slate for this is His right to avenge those who have been down trodden for His word, Christ. Christ is in Him when this occurs because they are one but it is the God head who claims the right to mete out punishment for what the Son judges and the Holy Spirit carries out the sentence.. It is a deep thing to grasp Get It Right but true. Does not God say in many places of the word, I will repay. Christ is never heard to utter this not once during His ministry on earth because he is subject to the Fathers will and knows that it is not His call but God's.

hismessenger

 

[get it right]

Nice try Ghost air. I never said that I couldn't be wrong but I did say that the word is never wrong and it will show you the truth if you seek it with your whole heart. If It is the word and it says what it says then you must deal with it or deny it for yourself. The word is never wrong. If it says something other than what you believe, then it is up to you, just like it is up to me, to search it out I can't just disregard it for the knowledge that I already have. It is the manifold wisdom of God. I fyou go into the word with a preconceived idea, then you can find things which will agree with what you think. But if you go into the word seeking only for the truth, God can show you so much more than just the few scriptures on which you base a belief and build a doctrine.

A house built without a foundation will soon come crumbling back to the earth from which it sprang. You can say whatever you want about me for that's a childish game and I am not concerned with accusations.

accusations are seemingly one of your main thing.

I am concerned that I do as God has directed me to do for your blood will not be on my head. and if I am wrong then God will make me pay for it. On that you can trust your life.

The word says ;



Does your heart condemn you Ghost air. Mine doesn't because I'm not here trying to prove a doctrine but only to present the truth and if that truth shows the doctrine to be in error then it is to the grace of God that he gives opportunity to repent and follow the right gospel. We won't have that opportunity forever on this side of the grave.

hismessenger

....

 

[get it right]

No HM didn't say that Christ does not do battle,

hm said, not knowing the meaning of footstool, that christ sits at the right hand of the father til the father has destroyed all his enemies, is what hm said.

What Hm said is that it is the Father who cleans the slate for this is His right to avenge those who have been down trodden for His word, Christ. Christ is in Him when this occurs because they are one but it is the God head who claims the right to mete out punishment for what the Son judges and the Holy Spirit carries out the sentence..

unbibical and from your head.
rev 19.11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

this is the person of jesus christ hm, not the person of the father or the person of the holy spirit.
It is a deep thing to grasp Get It Right but true. Does not God say in many places of the word, I will repay. Christ is never heard to utter this not once during His ministry on earth because he is subject to the Fathers will and knows that it is not His call but God's.

hismessenger

it's not deep at all it is plain and straight forward, but it seems apparant that you will continue to change, add and take away from much of the word, and you say a lot out of your own head and then say it is the word of god.

rev 22.18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Hismessenger]

Always the accuser, Get It Right, Thanks for another blessing. Keep them coming for my day has been a blessed day and I hope your was too.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

Deu 32:35 To me [belongeth] vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in [due] time: for the day of their calamity [is] at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Deu 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left.

Psa 94:1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. God the father


Psa 94:2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud
.
God the Son God The Holy Spirit

Psa 94:3 LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph?

In these few passages we have the operation of the God head in the form of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


hismessenger

 

[Bible2]

HisdaughterJen posted in message #817 of this thread:

The answer to that question is the answer to this question:
Where does our spirit reside when it leaves our bodies?

It is my understanding that the spirits of the righteous reside in
Paradise which is part of Hades, isn't it?

Greetings.

Actually, no, paradise is in the third heaven: "I knew a man in Christ
above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or
whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one
caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man,
(whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God
knoweth) How that he was caught up into paradise, and
heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter"
(2 Corinthians 12:2-4). Paradise is where the tree of life is: "To him
that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the
midst of the paradise of God" (Revelation 2:7), and the tree of life is
in the midst of New Jerusalem: "In the midst of the street of it, and
on either side of the river, was there the tree of life" (Revelation
22:2), and New Jerusalem is in heaven and contains the spirits of
dead men: "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the
living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company
of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which
are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits
of just men made perfect" (Hebrews 12:22-23).

When believers die, their spirits go into heaven to be with Jesus:
"to live is Christ, and to die is gain ... having a desire to depart, and
to be with Christ; which is far better" (Philippians 1:21,23), "We are
confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and
to be present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8), "And I saw under
the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,
and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud
voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge
and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Revelation 6:9-10).