Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

[Hismessenger]

Those asleep in Christ are hardly an army, and the ones who come with Christ here have their glorified bodies, they are the raptured bride.

The bride has made herself ready, they are in Heaven in fine linen white and clean, the armies follow Christ out of heaven in fine linen white and clean, but reject what Rev 19 say's all you want to, you have been showed enough.

I most truly have been shown enough.

So what you have said here is that the ones who are asleep can't possibly be enough to make up an army which could come with Him and His angels to gather the earth, nor by you inference can they have fine linen and clean unless they are the raptured church.

The next words from your mouth will be that I'm lying about what you say. But it's posted in your green script from your post #840.

I don't reject Rev 19, I just see it in the proper context of what it is saying.
There is an army in heaven which God will bring with Him when he comes but for you, they must be raptured. For me they are the ones asleep in Christ and His angels who gather His church from the earth which is the rapture of the end and the white throne judgment comes next.
Context is more important than doctrine in order to have the right doctrine of Christ, not man. Paul warned us;

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

And the word is truly being fulfilled in the earth and the apostate church.

hismessenger

 

[get it right]

I most truly have been shown enough.

So what you have said here is that the ones who are asleep can't possibly be enough to make up an army which could come with Him and His angels to gather the earth, nor by you inference can they have fine linen and clean unless they are the raptured church.

The next words from your mouth will be that I'm lying about what you say. But it's posted in your green script from your post #840.

But you do lie often, and I say you have lied when I show up your lie.
Which I have often done.

And what is in my green script is exactly what rev 19 say's which you reject, taking away the bride from Rev 19 and adding angels and beasts.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

There it is again can you see yet these verses are about the bride, or do you continue taking out the bride and adding angels and beasts to these verses.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

These warnings obviously mean nothing to you.

the marriage of the lamb is come, not is coming.
the wife hath made herself ready, not will make herself ready.
and to her was granted. not will be granted.
she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white
and a few verses later:
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

To say this is not the glorified bride is to reject these verses for your own wrong belief.

I don't reject Rev 19, I just see it in the proper context of what it is saying.

ha ha

There is an army in heaven which God will bring with Him when he comes but for you, they must be raptured.

Yes the glorified bride to be in heaven before the first resurrection, shows that they were raptured there, it could not be clearer, and you are one that uses the verse "God has blinded them", truly some of you posties in your accusations and name calling are in fact talking about yourselves.

For me they are the ones asleep in Christ and His angels who gather His church from the earth which is the rapture of the end

No, those asleep in Christ and angels are not even mentioned in Rev 19.
Rev 19 say's they are the bride and they are in fine linen white and clean which are their glorified bodies. The verses are so clear and your rejection of them is so blatant.

and the white throne judgment comes next.

No the battle between Christ and His armies and satan and His armies comes next, followed by the frist resurrection. The Great White Throne judgment comes about 1000 years later.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Rev 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Context is more important than doctrine in order to have the right doctrine of Christ, not man. Paul warned us;


And the word is truly being fulfilled in the earth and the apostate church.

hismessenger

You should try and get true understanding of these few plain and straight forward verses, before going to other books and verses and filling some new comers with false hoods, which you will have to answer to. Because you have been shown your errors so often by many here alone.

 

[Hismessenger]

No, those asleep in Christ and angels are not even mentioned in Rev 19.
Rev 19 say's they are the bride and they are in fine linen white and clean which are their glorified bodies. The verses are so clear and your rejection of them is so blatant.

NO your interpretation is so blatant that you have begun to believe what you say is true. Rev 19 talks about armies in fine white linen which you claim is the raptured church but no where does it say that it is the church, only that they are in fine white linen.

You assume they are the church because of your doctrinal belief that they were raptured before the tribulation when in fact, Church members are beheaded in the tribualtion which you claim are already gone.

Yes the church will wear fine white linen but to assume that that verse speaks of them is adding something which it doesn't say.

Then I gave you the scripture which tells you in no uncertain terms that those who are asleep in Christ will God bring with Him. This you reject for your doctrine without proof of what you say. Yes the church is there.

In Daniel 8 it speaks of one saint speaking to another and this is long before the tribulation so how do you support your belief when the word says otherwise?

I say they are those who sleep in Christ and the scripture supports that. You say the armies are the raptured church but the scripture doesn't support that as written.

hismessenger

 

[get it right]

NO your interpretation is so blatant that you have begun to believe what you say is true.

I believe the scriptures I post are true, you don't, but add to and take away from them, which has been shown much.

Rev 19 talks about armies in fine white linen which you claim is the raptured church but no where does it say that it is the church, only that they are in fine white linen.

It's very clear for one with eyes to see that it is the bride.

You assume they are the church because of your doctrinal belief that they were raptured before the tribulation when in fact, Church members are beheaded in the tribualtionwhich you claim are already gone.

That's another lie, I havn't claimed that some don't come to God after the rapture.

Yes the church will wear fine white linen but to assume that that verse speaks of them is adding something which it doesn't say.

It's adding nothing but saying it exactly as it is written, which you have been blinded to because of your unbelief, I believe.

Then I gave you the scripture which tells you in no uncertain terms that those who are asleep in Christ will God bring with Him.

Ha ha, we know about the rapture, but you don't.

This you reject for your doctrine without proof of what you say. Yes the church is there.

Again a lie and confusion.

In Daniel 8 it speaks of one saint speaking to another and this is long before the tribulation so how do you support your belief when the word says otherwise?

u r

I say they are those who sleep in Christ and the scripture supports that. You say the armies are the raptured church but the scripture doesn't support that as written.

hismessenger

u r so so .

 

[Hismessenger]

And what is in my green script is exactly what rev 19 say's which you reject, taking away the bride from Rev 19 and adding angels and beasts.

Where does it say that the army is the raptured bride Get It right. That's a flight of imagination for it is not there and your saying it is there doesn't make it so. It is the church but they are not raptured to be there. They have either died or been killed before this scene is seen in heaven. thus we have the scripture from Dan 8:

Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, [even] I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between [the banks of] Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this [man] to understand the vision.
Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end [shall be] the vision.
Dan 8:18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [shall be].

Yes Rev19 speaks of the bride;

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

It says that she has made herself ready. Ready for what? For the bride groom to come and get her. That was the Jewish custom and it is a reflection of Christ coming for the church. It is also reflected in the parable of the ten virgins. When the groom had finished all the preparations to take His bride He came to get her when and if she had made herself ready. Five did, five didn't. They had no oil!

The armies which were in heaven are those asleep in Christ as given before and denied, and the holy angels who also wear fine linen that is white and clean which is also denied for the doctrine. Because you say it is the church coming with Him is truth but it isn't the rapture church, It is those who have already died for His testimony and to His glory. In the old testament and new, and from the tribulation.

Coming to gather the rest of the bride from the earth for she is ready for the groom. That is what it says. They are not the ones coming from heaven to gather themselves. That is truly a run of imagination.

Those who are asleep in Christ will God bring with Him and then we which are alive and remain will be caught up to meet Him in the air and so be with Him forevermore. 1 Thess. 4. that's the context of what it is saying. Believe it or not. that is up to you.

hismessenger

 

[get it right]

hm:

That's a flight of imagination


That is truly a run of imagination.



Pointless showing you again, seems you have been blinded for your unbelief.

 

[Hismessenger]

Good no answer Get it right, You've gotten to be excellent at avoiding things which you can't refute with those pat answers. Your lying, your blinded, your confused, your out in left field. Anything but a concrete refutal of the scriptures presented. For there is no rebutal against the truth and your lack of an answer only confirms this. Rev 19 says nothing about the bride being part of an army but you insist that it does. 1 Thess 4 says that God will bring with Him those who are asleep in Christ which you totally try to disregard for it says what it says and tells us who the armies could be, but even there it doesn't say that they are the army. I'll give you that, but at least it says that they will come with Him. Your scripture only speaks about the bride being made ready and as I told you earlier, the bride waits for the bride groom to come and get her. Ten virgins parable. Shes ready but hasn't been taken yet but you insist that she has with no prove other than what you think it might be.
I don't need to lie only post scripture and watch you squirm to try and get around them. You don't need to show me anything again for it doesn't change the truth.

We both know what that is but only God can remove the blinders to show His truth which He will in due season. And those who fight against His truth will regret it, Maybe for eternity. Your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth but only one can be God's truth and we will find out one day which one it is.

hismessenger

 

[get it right]

Good no answer Get it right, You've gotten to be excellent at avoiding things which you can't refute with those pat answers. Your lying, your blinded, your confused, your out in left field. Anything but a concrete refutal of the scriptures presented. For there is no rebutal against the truth and your lack of an answer only confirms this. Rev 19 says nothing about the bride being part of an army but you insist that it does. 1 Thess 4 says that God will bring with Him those who are asleep in Christ which you totally try to disregard for it says what it says and tells us who the armies could be, but even there it doesn't say that they are the army. I'll give you that, but at least it says that they will come with Him. Your scripture only speaks about the bride being made ready and as I told you earlier, the bride waits for the bride groom to come and get her. Ten virgins parable. Shes ready but hasn't been taken yet but you insist that she has with no prove other than what you think it might be.
I don't need to lie only post scripture and watch you squirm to try and get around them. You don't need to show me anything again for it doesn't change the truth.

We both know what that is but only God can remove the blinders to show His truth which He will in due season. And those who fight against His truth will regret it, Maybe for eternity. Your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth but only one can be God's truth and we will find out one day which one it is.

hismessenger

Hm:
Good no answer Get it right


You've gotten to be excellent at avoiding things


Your lying


your blinded


your confused


your out in left field


Anything but a concrete refutal of the scriptures presented


For there is no rebutal against the truth and your lack of an answer only confirms this
Rev 19 says nothing about the bride being part of an army but you insist that it does


1 Thess 4 says that God will bring with Him those who are asleep in Christ which you totally try to disregard for it says what it says and tells us who the armies could be, but even there it doesn't say that they are the army. I'll give you that


I don't need to lie only post scripture and watch you squirm to try and get around them



We both know what that is but only God can remove the blinders to show His truth which He will in due season


And those who fight against His truth will regret it, Maybe for eternity


hm, do you suffer from mental disease or bad memory? not being nasty or accusing, just think it could explain some things. And if not then you just disagree.

 

[zeke37]

you are a nasty poster get it right...mental illness question....get a life

 

[get it right]

you are a nasty poster get it right...mental illness question....get a life

your opinion, which does not impress.
by much of what he say's, it's a fair question.

i have a life in Christ, should i be doing more?

 

[Hismessenger]

I will tell you just as I told Kotel on another thread. Your tactics are written in the scriptures and they are utilized by the enemy to try an upset the peace of the saints. So I thank you for all your blessing because it lets me know that I am giving the message that God is pleased with. I'm not here to please man or follow after His doctrines. Only the doctrines given by the Holy Spirit down through the ages by those inspired to write the truth. To preach another gospel is to be accursed just as they tried in the disciples day. The resurrection is already past. Now we have another attempt to push that same doctrine with a different twist. Same devil, same plan using slightly different words but aimed at the same end, to deceive. He tried the same thing with the master. I will give you all the kingdoms of the world. Cast yourself down and the angels will bear you up. All aimed to disrupt if possible the will of God and His purpose for us in the earth. Aint happening. The battle is already over

So I thank you for your blessing and my father is pleased. Keep up the work.

hismessenger

 

[GoodNewsJournalist]

I would like every pre-triber out there to tell me how the church, the army of God, sends all of God's enemy into the bottomless pit, every single evil demon, which is 100 per cent the only condition Christ comes back, if the church, those who have been translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light, the only ones who have authority over all the power of the enemy, gets lifted off the Earth!

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

All enemies of God have to be made the footstool of Jesus Christ, before Jesus comes back!

Anybody telling you anything else is a liar, and doesn't want you to take authority over the kingdom of darkness, as it won't matter because you're going to get raptured anyways!

 

[get it right]

you are a nasty poster get it right...mental illness question....get a life

hm, do you suffer from mental disease or bad memory? not being nasty or accusing, just think it could explain some things. And if not then you just disagree.

nasty poster you say....that is polite, how come because you are postie like him you are blinded to some of his posts, which are nasty, why? because same spirit i suppose.

try being truthful.

 

[get it right]

I would like every pre-triber out there to tell me how the church, the army of God, sends all of God's enemy into the bottomless pit, every single evil demon, which is 100 per cent the only condition Christ comes back, if the church, those who have been translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light, the only ones who have authority over all the power of the enemy, gets lifted off the Earth!

All enemies of God have to be made the footstool of Jesus Christ, before Jesus comes back!

Anybody telling you anything else is a liar, and doesn't want you to take authority over the kingdom of darkness, as it won't matter because you're going to get raptured anyways!

when Christ comes with all His saints, He does battle with satan and the armies of the world. so perhaps you need to find out what that verse means as scripture does not contradict itself.

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[GoodNewsJournalist]

when Christ comes with all His saints, He does battle with satan and the armies of the world. so perhaps you need to find out what that verse means as scripture does not contradict itself.

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

And you see, there it is. There is no two-wave rapture. Because the pre-trib rapture people believe Jesus comes back in two steps, first to get his church, and then to defeat the enemy.

Well guess what, you showed that Jesus only comes back to defeat all the enemies, thereby securing humanity's dominion over the Earth!

He doesn't come back to first take us away.

Now, I am not going to explain how this mystery is true, because I only have a limited understanding of it as it is, because I am only human, and I can't understand eternity!

The fact God said in the Bible 6 times he only comes back when all his enemies are his footstool, that means he doesn't come back first to get us, he only comes back to defeat all his enemies, and he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated here on the Earth.

There's a reason why they are going to be so desperate and foolish as to try to overcome Jesus!

 

[get it right]

psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

To sit at the Father's right hand, is to reign.

1 cor 15:20 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

He is reigning from Heaven now, and will continue to reign when He comes with all His saints to put His enemies under His feet.

 

[GoodNewsJournalist]

But he is not going to come back for us, until, his enemies are his footstool. He has to stay in heaven, and not come back to the Earth to gather his church.

All I can say is, when Jesus comes back with his saints, I will see him and them, and then I will be beside him, as I have always been, because I will put on immortality!

I can't explain how that happens, how I change in the twinkling of an eye when I see my Lord, but I know it is true!

 

[get it right]

And you see, there it is. There is no two-wave rapture. Because the pre-trib rapture people believe Jesus comes back in two steps, first to get his church, and then to defeat the enemy.

Well guess what, you showed that Jesus only comes back to defeat all the enemies, thereby securing humanity's dominion over the Earth!

He doesn't come back to first take us away.

Now, I am not going to explain how this mystery is true, because I only have a limited understanding of it as it is, because I am only human, and I can't understand eternity!

The fact God said in the Bible 6 times he only comes back when all his enemies are his footstool, that means he doesn't come back first to get us,

for one thing, in the rapture 1 thess 4, Christ does not come to earth but as far as the clouds.

he only comes back to defeat all his enemies, and he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated here on the Earth.

He comes back to defeat all His enemies,
but he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated.
ummm.

There's a reason why they are going to be so desperate and foolish as to try to overcome Jesus!

you never answered your comment that Christ won't return until all his enemies become His footstool.
rev 19 shows when he returns he still has enemies here on earth.

 

[get it right]

But he is not going to come back for us, until, his enemies are his footstool. He has to stay in heaven, and not come back to the Earth to gather his church.

that verse could mean diffrent to what you think as it is plain from rev 19 alone that when Christ comes to earth with His armies, he has enemies there which he battles against.

All I can say is, when Jesus comes back with his saints, I will see him and them, and then I will be beside him, as I have always been, because I will put on immortality!

we are glorified - put on immortality when Christ comes with those asleep in Him. 1 thess 4.
when He comes with all His saints, well just as it says, we come with Him.
rev 19 and elsewhere.
1 thess 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

I can't explain how that happens, how I change in the twinkling of an eye when I see my Lord, but I know it is true!

....

 

[Hismessenger]

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

Mat 22:44 "The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool" '?

Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '
Luk 20:43 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '

Act 2:35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '

Hbr 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"?

He comes back to defeat all His enemies,
but he can only do that when the enemy has already been defeated.
ummm.

Yeah, God comes to defeat Christs enemies for he said, vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I will repay.

It is God who won the battle.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Christ is still sitting at the right hand of the father when this occurs.

This is the parable of the of the householder and the vineyard. The lord sent servants at first to receive his due from the sharecroppers and they acted with wickedness and deceit. Even to the son which they killed. So when the vineyard owner himself comes, he will destroy the the wicked and let out the vineyard to those who will render him His due. Thus avenging
his son. Then He will restore to the son His rightful place.


hismessenger