Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

[Ghost air]

The bible doesn't say anything about the wedding feast taking place first.

Nana, here is what Rev 19 says. It says that the marriage of the Lamb is come.

The chapter begins like this;

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

A few verses later (in the same chapter) we read this;

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Then in the same chapter, when we read of Christ coming, look who is following Him;

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

You don't see that as Christ's bride IN HEAVEN ? Are you serious ?

 

[Ghost air]

When I read Rev 19, I see the wedding taking place (in heaven) and then the Lord coming with the saints in fine linen following Him. So evidently they must have been raptured before Christ comes.

the Saints that follow Him are the dead believers in heaven with whom Christ returns, as promised in 1Thes4:13-14....where are the dead? they are in heaven today with Christ waiting to return, AS PROMISED

and they are gathered together with the elect alive on earth, at the last trump, which is the 7th, or trump of God....when Christ Comes here...physically

So this is what I was getting at. In the post trib view, you have SOME of Christ's church on earth going through the great tribuation while the others are in heaven ?

Rev 19 says that there was a great multitude in heaven and that the marriage of the Lamb is come, and it says that to her it was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. It then speaks of Christ coming and that the armies IN HEAVEN followed Him and that they were clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

You don't see any connection there ? Like the marriage in heaven (isn't that where the saying comes from, a marriage made in heaven?) and then these following Christ when He comes.

IMO, it's undeniable.

​

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

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Nana, here is what Rev 19 says. It says that the marriage of the Lamb is come.

The chapter begins like this;

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

A few verses later (in the same chapter) we read this;

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Then in the same chapter, when we read of Christ coming, look who is following Him;

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

You don't see that as Christ's bride IN HEAVEN ? Are you serious ?

I didn't say that wasn't Christ's bride...but we aren't coming from heaven where Gods throne is, but heaven the sky right after we are resurrected/caught up. We are coming from the clouds that Christ came in. It's like I said before...caught up to meet Christ in the air...back down to destroy the antichrist and false prophet. We get our robes when we meet Him in the air...when we are changed. Do you think that naked folk are coming out of those graves, and what about people who are naked when Christ returns lol. I'm sure that some will be taking a shower or changing clothes The catching away and marriage supper are right there together in the same chapter. This is a one day event, so we wouldn't have time to have a marriage supper...that would be like a marriage snack of the Lamb with having to return to heaven first. The actual supper is during the 1000 years.
Matt 26:64 ~Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.

 

[Psalms34]

I accept your remarks as someone with "Artificial Intelligence" Want to know about the financial situation? Here ya go. This nation is going down the tubes, the bail out won't work..just throw this nation deeper then the debt it is aready in, Wall Street is going to crash, the antichrist is taking over for 3.5 years. How's that for news?

Oh sure, that is the eventual outcome. Happens in spurts of course, one step at a time to lead to that eventual situation. There is a lot happening below the surface though, at least currently as momentum builds to that eventual demise. But I don't want to take this OT, so I'll leave it at that. Only financial thread I saw was about war and had a bunch of seemingly anti-Iraq comments, nothing to do with things like the Illuminati and such entities regarding financial manipulation.

Yes, hah, my intelligence is not my own. Not fully loaded yet either, but when it is I'll let ya know Though that may not be until we enter the heavenly kingdom

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Oh sure, that is the eventual outcome. Happens in spurts of course, one step at a time to lead to that eventual situation. There is a lot happening below the surface though, at least currently as momentum builds to that eventual demise. But I don't want to take this OT, so I'll leave it at that. Only financial thread I saw was about war and had a bunch of seemingly anti-Iraq comments, nothing to do with things like the Illuminati and such entities regarding financial manipulation.

Oh, are you into conspiracy theories also like some on here, who think that the illuminati are going to play a major role in the last days? It's bunk. The only ones who are going to play a role in the last days are the antichrist and those without Christ.....which could very well have some illuminati in the group. Evil is evil, and I tend to lump them all together in the same "bound for hell" mold if they don't repent. Why single out one specific group?

Yes, hah, my intelligence is not my own. Not fully loaded yet either, but when it is I'll let ya know Though that may not be until we enter the heavenly kingdom

The bible states that we have the mind of Christ... 1 Cor 2:16 ~For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. Hope you get fully loaded before the heavenly kingdom

 

[Ghost air]

I didn't say that wasn't Christ's bride...but we aren't coming from heaven where Gods throne is, but heaven the sky right after we are resurrected/caught up.

So when the Revelation says that there was a great multitude in heaven, you take that to mean that they were in the sky ?

 

[Psalms34]

Oh, are you into conspiracy theories also like some on here, who think that the illuminati are going to play a major role in the last days? It's bunk.

Sure, who is the author of conspiracy? They are just following Satan’s lead. Not all “theories” are valid of course, some are I’m sure created by Satan simply for disinformation purposes so some people will dismiss them all.

I think I have more loaded than some. But imperfection must put on perfection, mortality must put on immortality. We will know as we are known.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Then in the same chapter, when we read of Christ coming, look who is following Him;

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

You don't see that as Christ's bride IN HEAVEN ? Are you serious ?

Do you view that as literal? Just curious

 

[Ghost air]

Do you view that as literal? Just curious

Perhaps not literally upon white horses (although it could be literal) but certainly literal in the sense of Christ coming, and there being saints following Him.

I believe this is showing us Christ coming from heaven to earth with His saints. So what many would call the 2nd coming, Christ literally on earth as King of kings and Lord of lords.

I also believe that He will literally destroy the beast and his false prophet who are gathered together (against literal Israel and Him) with the kings of the earth to make battle with Him.

So yes, literal in the sense that this is the coming of Christ.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

I have often wondered if there would be any significant difference between pre-tribbers going through the tribulation then post trib believers..which I am post. The bible states in John 8:32... And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Does that mean that those who do not see the truth are in more serious peril during the tribulation then those who are post who have received the truth?
The reason that I have these questions is because I was pre-trib for 35 years..post for about 5 years now. When I was pre-trib, it seemed like I had less worries about what was coming on the earth because I wouldn't be here. When I first discovered that post trib catching away was the truth, I was in shock for awhile, but now I am at peace knowing what to expect...and actually more grateful to God for showing me the truth since it has sunk in. In 2 Tim 4:3-4 it states this... For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Now I believe that this has been going on since "whoever" started the pre-trib "fable." It has followed a long line of well known bible scholars/teachers such as John Darby, even as most recent, Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHay, and even preachers are expounding it on the Christian channels on TV. John Hagee, the pompous hypocrite that he is, said one day while I was watching 3 years ago, that the post trib rapture is the biggest lie that Satan ever perpetrated. He even said..DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!! I haven't watched him since.
Now, I am wondering if people that follow this teaching and believe in a pre-trib rapture are going to be totally blind sided once the tribulation hits. God expects every one of us to search His Word for ourselves, and not rely on the truth of mans gospel from the pulpit, or what we have heard from our families carried down to us. Will this be considered believing a Satanic deception and pay the penalty in the end? If they can't even see the post trib rapture in the Word, will they even know who the Antichrist is once he is revealed? The bible doesn't really say anything about believing a "time line" lie, but it does say something about believing unsound doctrine. I DO believe that Satan started this lie for a very good reason...what is that reason and for what purpose?
I do believe that those who are full of what Word will know what is going on once this starts..unless they freak out thinking..OH NO, the rapture didn't happen. What do I do now??!! These are just some thoughts that I have had roaming through my head for awhile.

I agree with you BMN, pretrib theologians such as Hal Lindsey and Tim Lahay are doing no one any good promoting this false doctrine. I also agree that John Hagee is a pompous hypocrite. Satan created the pretrib lie to deceive the church and to keep God's people unaware and unprepared for what we will have to endure in the near future. The pretrib believer has turn from the truth and to satan's fable, and I believe many will fall away during the triublation because of it. I pray that they will come to the knowledge of the truth before it is too late, and if they do not come to this truth until after the tribulation has started, I pray they will hold fast to their faith in the face of any and all adversity. Remember this whether we are in the midst of the tribulation or not God will never leave us nor forsake us.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

So when the Revelation says that there was a great multitude in heaven, you take that to mean that they were in the sky ?

Nope, that one in Rev 7 is the sealed 144,000 standing before the throne + those redeemed from the earth. This verse happens after the tribulation when we do go to heaven where God resides. This verse..Matt 24:31~ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. These are those that are caught up into the sky at His coming. One end of heaven to the other is HUGE if you think about it. He isn't gathering from the heaven where God resides. That wouldn't make sense since we are being caught up at this point from the earth.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Sure, who is the author of conspiracy? They are just following Satan’s lead. Not all “theories” are valid of course, some are I’m sure created by Satan simply for disinformation purposes so some people will dismiss them all.

I think I have more loaded than some. But imperfection must put on perfection, mortality must put on immortality. We will know as we are known.

Amen

 

[Ghost air]

Nope, that one in Rev 7 is the sealed 144,000 standing before the throne + those redeemed from the earth. This verse happens after the tribulation when we do go to heaven where God resides. This verse..Matt 24:31~ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. These are those that are caught up into the sky at His coming. One end of heaven to the other is HUGE if you think about it. He isn't gathering from the heaven where God resides. That wouldn't make sense since we are being caught up at this point from the earth.

I was not talking about Rev 7, I was talking about Rev 19.

You're telling me that this verse in Rev 19 means the sky and not heaven ?

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

 

[Ghost air]

So Nana, if we look at Matthew 25 where it speaks of the wise virgins going into the wedding with Christ, and that the door was shut... are you suggesting that the wedding takes place in the sky and not in heaven ?

 

[Ghost air]

Nope, that one in Rev 7 is the sealed 144,000 standing before the throne + those redeemed from the earth. This verse happens after the tribulation when we do go to heaven where God resides.

Ok, I'm trying to get the post trib view correct in my mind.

You're saying that SOME of the church will go through the great tribulation, and then we will meet the Lord in the air, then come back to earth with Him, and then He is going to take us back to heaven ?

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Ok, I'm trying to get the post trib view correct in my mind.

You're saying that SOME of the church will go through the great tribulation, and then we will meet the Lord in the air, then come back to earth with Him, and then He is going to take us back to heaven ?

Every one who is alive when the Tribulation starts will go through it whether they are part of the church or not. We do meet the Lord in the air as He is returning to the earth at His 2nd coming and we return with Him top the earth to reign with Him during the Millennium. We do not go to Heaven after the rapture we reign on earth for 1,000 years and then New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven to us.

Those that are dead in Christ are in Heaven right now and they are the ones returning from Heaven with Christ at the posttrib 2nd coming.

1st Thessaloinians 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them that sleep is Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

 

[Ghost air]

Every one who is alive when the Tribulation starts will go through it whether they are part of the church or not. We do meet the Lord in the air as He is returning to the earth at His 2nd coming and we return with Him top the earth to reign with Him during the Millennium. We do not go to Heaven after the rapture we reign on earth for 1,000 years and then New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven to us.

Those that are dead in Christ are in Heaven right now and they are the ones returning from Heaven with Christ at the posttrib 2nd coming.

1st Thessaloinians 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them that sleep is Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

So those on earth during the tribulation do not go the the wedding in heaven ? You do believe that the church is Christ's bride, don't you ?

So how do you explain the multitude in heaven in Rev 19, and the fact that marriage is come and that the bride was clothed in fine linen, and that these are following Him when He comes ?

 

[onwingsaseagles]

So those on earth during the tribulation do not go the the wedding in heaven ? You do believe that the church is Christ's bride, don't you ?

So how do you explain the multitude in heaven in Rev 19, and the fact that marriage is come and that the bride was clothed in fine linen, and that these are following Him when He comes ?

I do not believe the Wedding of the Lamb is in Heaven during the Tribulation. That is pretrib theory not biblical teaching. Revelaton 19:7-9 does not say the Marriage of the Lamb is in Heaven. It says the Marriage has come and His Bride as made herself ready, the Bride has clothed herself with the righteousness of the saint. The very next thing mentioned is the return of Christ I believe the wedding itself is the uniting of the Bride and Christ at the rapture which occurs at the posttrib 2nd coming and that the Marriage supper would take place here on earth after the return.

Now you can claim the Bible does not specifically say that, and I am not dogmatic on the view because of that point. However the bible does not ever say that the Wedding or Marriage supper is in Heaven during the Tribulation either. So there is no reason to believe it is. Like I said in Revelation 19:7-9 it says that the Marriage has come and His wife has made herself ready not that it is taking place it is about to take place and I believe that it is at the post trib 2nd coming when we meet the Lord in the air and are received into Himself to forever be with the Lord.

 

[Ghost air]

I do not believe the Wedding of the Lamb is in Heaven during the Tribulation. That is pretrib theory not biblical teaching. Revelaton 19:7-9 does not say the Marriage of the Lamb is in Heaven. It says the Marriage has come and His Bride as made herself ready, the Bride has clothed herself with the righteousness of the saint. The very next thing mentioned is the return of Christ I believe the wedding itself is the uniting of the Bride and Christ at the rapture which occurs at the posttrib 2nd coming and that the Marriage supper would take place here on earth after the return.

So when Rev 19 says that there was a great multitude IN HEAVEN and that the marriage of the Lamb is come, you see that as meeting the Lord in the air ? I guess this is how Nana sees it also. She was saying that the wedding is in the air I think.

There is no teaching in the bible which says that we meet the Lord in the air and then return to earth, so I could just as easily say that this is a post trib teaching.

Now you can claim the Bible does not specifically say that, and I am not dogmatic on the view because of that point. However the bible does not ever say that the Wedding or Marriage supper is in Heaven during the Tribulation either. So there is no reason to believe it is. Like I said in Revelation 19:7-9 it says that the Marriage has come and His wife has made herself ready not that it is taking place it is about to take place and I believe that it is at the post trib 2nd coming when we meet the Lord in the air and are received into Himself to forever be with the Lord.

I am not that dogmatic about it either, just trying to understand the post trib thinking on this topic. From what I gather so far, I see that the post trib view has some of Christ's bride going through the tribulation while the others are in heaven. When the Lord comes you have those on earth meeting the Lord in the air and then returing to earth and reigning with Him for a thousand years.

I have heard the view that the church remains in heaven during the millennial reign of Christ, and that's interesting too because we're told in rev 21 that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and that it is the Lamb's wife.

Either way, the post trib view seems problematic to me. The argument that pre tribbers will be deceived (as some say) seems pretty weak to me. If a person is born again and in Christ, He has promised to perform that good work which He began in them, even until the Day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Ok, I'm trying to get the post trib view correct in my mind.

You're saying that SOME of the church will go through the great tribulation, and then we will meet the Lord in the air, then come back to earth with Him, and then He is going to take us back to heaven ?

No, ALL of the church goes through the tribulation...except those who have died in Christ. Their Spirits remain with Christ until He comes at the end of the tribulation when those who are alive and remain are caught up after the resurrected.