Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

[LittleLambofJesus]

You are "rambling" like someone who can't hit on a question. Put this in more of a concise format, or I am not answering them. Some of this I already answered. I'm not going to play your silly games Jen. I know where you stand already, and you are out in left field biblically....BATTER UP!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I'm not going back and searching for these answers just so you think that you can prove a point. I'll answer these one more time Jen. If you don't get it this time..to bad for you.

Do you not understand what Mark was saying when he said this? Mark 13:14 ~ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation,spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,(Jen refuses) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: Matthew says the same thing.
This is what Daniel 9:27 says.. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, (abomination of desolation) even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Do you also not understand also that Israel are the desolate as proven by scripture? Matt 23:37-39 ~ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. This is because they denied the Son of God, and they will accept the beast for a time until Christ is revealed...John 5:43 ~I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
39) For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Desolations are determined on Israel until Christ returns and they accept their true Messiah. It is also called the time of Jacobs trouble...Jer 30:7 ~Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it". It also goes with this verse..Matt 24:21 ~ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Hallelujah! NANA gets it! The abom of desolation was from the desolation of the city/sanctuary until the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath!!!!!!!!!!!

The anti-christ isn't even mentioned!

There isn't a verse that states that, and you know it.

Amen! You're absolutely 100% correct! There isn't one verse that refers to the anti-christ as the abomination of desolation.

I guess in your case you could throw Daniel 9:27 out to suit your own beliefs. You have to have enough common sense and Holy Spirit understanding to take all these things as a whole and the answer is there. It proves that the Devil is reigning during the tribulation. He would have to be for the simple fact alone that Christ only destroys him after he comes back right after the tribulation and not before

How does any scripture prove that the devil is reigning during the tribulation which you just established is from the abomination that caused the desolation of Jerusalem/temple until Christ comes (Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath begins)?

The reign of the devil is ON the Day of the Lord/Day of WRATH, during the trumpets and bowls of the 7th seal after the sun/moon darkening of the 6th seal which is immediately after the tribulation, according to the Bible.

. Of course you probably believe that he was here in 70 AD which is a real laugh!!!!

No, I don't because the Bible doesn't say that.

He is here before the sun/moon darken. Christ doesn't return until right after the sun moon darkens to destroy him with the brightness of His coming...2 Thess 2:8-10 ~ And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Abomination of desolation of Jerusalem/temple to the beginning of Day of Wrath when the sun/moon darken is the "tribulation" according to Jesus!!!!!!

From the sun/moon darkening (6th seal) until Christ comes on the clouds is the Day of Wrath/Day of the Lord. It includes everything in the 7th seal...the trumpets and the bowls. The devil is reigning during trumpets 5 & 6 and all the bowls.

What you are missing is that the trumpets and bowls happen after the sun/moon darken which is immediately after the tribulation that has been going on since the desolation of Jerusalem/temple.

You are "rambling" like someone who can't hit on a question. Put this in more of a concise format with questions, or I am not answering them. I may not answer them anyway. Depends on my mood and if I feel like playing head games like you do. Some of this I already answered. I know where you stand already, and you are out in left field biblically....BATTER UP!!!
Did you ever consider joining a Preterist Forum?? You would fit right in.

How is this rambling? Allow me to answer the questions for you using scripture since you REFUSE to do it and gain understanding.

DID Jesus say, in regards to the temple and it's buildings, "not one stone will be left on another"?

YES!

Mat 24:1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.
Mat 24:2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."


DID the disciples ask Jesus, "when will this be"?

YES!
Mat 24:3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"



DID Jesus answer the question regarding the destruction of the temple and it's buildings or not? If so, with what verse in Matt 24?

YES!
Mat 24:15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel-let the reader understand
Mat 24:16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.



DID Jesus say that Israel/Jerusalem's "house would be left to them desolate"?

YES!
Mat 23:37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Mat 23:38Look, your house is left to you desolate.




DID Luke understand that the abomination of desolation was the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies and the dispersement of the people "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled"?

YES!
Luk 21:20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.
...
Luk 21:24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.




Does Daniel 9:26-27 speak of a desolation of the city/sanctuary? When did it happen?

YES! It happened in 66-70AD.
Dan 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] (THE CITY/SANCTUARY) desolate, even until the consummation (THE END), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.(ISRAEL)


Is the anti-christ ever mentioned in ANY of those passages?

NO!

Is the anti-christ EVER referred to as "the abomination of desolation"?

NO!

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I love that skit!!! That's how I feel when talking to "confusion"!!!!

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Furthermore, Jesus doesn't go into great detail about what happens during the wrath (after sun/moon darken) in Matt 24 but Revelation tells us everything that happens from the sun/moon darkening at the beginning of the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath until the Lord comes on the clouds. It tells us why "the nations of the earth shall mourn".

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Hallelujah! NANA gets it! The abom of desolation was from the desolation of the city/sanctuary until the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath!!!!!!!!!!!

The anti-christ isn't even mentioned!

Don't get all excited. You still don't get it. Jerusalem is surrounded by armies during the tribulation. The Antichrist armies. The desolations are not the destruction of the city or the sanctuary. The desolations are on the people, not buildings!!!! Rev 11:1-7 ~ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (how long the AC rules)
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them (the Antichrist)

Amen! You're absolutely 100% correct! There isn't one verse that refers to the anti-christ as the abomination of desolation.

Yes there is, in Daniel 9:27!!! Who do you think the "he" is referring to several times doing the abominations and desolations, Donald Duck? Why do you have a hard time putting scripture together? You need to get out of the AD and into the NT!!!!! The AD is passed history. We are in the present and heading right for the tribulation.

I'm not answering this confusion below!!!​

How does any scripture prove that the devil is reigning during the tribulation which you just established is from the abomination that caused the desolation of Jerusalem/temple until Christ comes (Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath begins)?

The reign of the devil is during the trumpets of the 7th seal after the sun/moon darkening of the 6th seal which is immediately after the tribulation, according to the Bible.






No, I don't because the Bible doesn't say that.




Abomination of desolation of Jerusalem/temple to the beginning of Day of Wrath when the sun/moon darken is the "tribulation" according to Jesus!!!!!!

From the sun/moon darkening (6th seal) until Christ comes on the clouds is the Day of Wrath/Day of the Lord. It includes everything in the 7th seal...the trumpets and the bowls. The devil is reigning during trumpets 5 & 6 and all the bowls.

What you are missing is that the trumpets and bowls happen after the sun/moon darken which is immediately after the tribulation that has been going on since the desolation of Jerusalem/temple.




How is this rambling? Allow me to answer the questions for you using scripture since you REFUSE to do it and gain understanding.

DID Jesus say, in regards to the temple and it's buildings, "not one stone will be left on another"?

YES!

Mat 24:1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.
Mat 24:2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."


DID the disciples ask Jesus, "when will this be"?

YES!
Mat 24:3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"



DID Jesus answer the question regarding the destruction of the temple and it's buildings or not? If so, with what verse in Matt 24?

YES!
Mat 24:15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel-let the reader understand
Mat 24:16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.



DID Jesus say that Israel/Jerusalem's "house would be left to them desolate"?

YES!
Mat 23:37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Mat 23:38Look, your house is left to you desolate.




DID Luke understand that the abomination of desolation was the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies and the dispersement of the people "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled"?

YES!
Luk 21:20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.
...
Luk 21:24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.




Does Daniel 9:26-27 speak of a desolation of the city/sanctuary? When did it happen?

YES! It happened in 66-70AD.
Dan 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] (THE CITY/SANCTUARY) desolate, even until the consummation (THE END), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.(ISRAEL)


Is the anti-christ ever mentioned in ANY of those passages?

NO!

Is the anti-christ EVER referred to as "the abomination of desolation"?
You are one confused puppy!!! You are so Preterist that it sticks out like a sore thumb!!

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Don't get all excited. You still don't get it. Jerusalem is surrounded by armies during the tribulation. The Antichrist armies. The desolations are not the destruction of the city or the sanctuary. The desolations are on the people, not buildings!!!!

And the "tribulation" is from the abomination that causes desolation until the Day of Wrath begins, right? The Day of Wrath begins when the sun/moon darken according to Rev 6 -6th seal. The anti-christ doesn't even make an appearance until the 5th & 6th trumpet of the 7th seal according to Rev 8/9.

The city and the sanctuary were destroyed and left desolate in 70AD. Daniel 9:27 is describing how it happened in Daniel 9:26. There is NO mention of the anti-christ.

Rev 11:1-7 ~ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (how long the AC rules)

Agreed. The devil/beasts reign for 42 months.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them (the Antichrist)

And when does that beast come out of the bottomless pit? TRUMPET #5 of the 7th seal! AFTER the sun/moon darken immediately AFTER the tribulation which started with the desolation of the temple about 2000 years ago!

Yes there is, in Daniel 9:27!!! Who do you think the "he" is referring to several times doing the abominations and desolations, Donald Duck? Why do you have a hard time putting scripture together? You need to get out of the AD and into the NT!!!!! The AD is passed history. We are in the present and heading right for the tribulation.

Nana, stop and think! Jesus was telling Israel that something was coming which would leave their house desolate..."not one stone left on another". Do you think Jesus skipped over the desolation of Jerusalem/the temple in 70 AD followed by the longest and most grievous 2000 years in Jewish history to talk about the anti-christ which doesn't even come on the scene until after the sun/moon darken when the tribulation is over?

Was Jesus talking about the wrath of God (which includes the reign of the devil) or the tribulation? One is after the sun/moon darken and one is before the sun/moon darken. That darkening of the sun/moon is the turning point. It is the beginning of the Day of Wrath during which the devil is kicked down and allowed to reign for 42 months.

The "he" in Daniel 9:26-27 and 11:31-35 would be the leader of the Romans who destroyed the city/sanctuary. Josephus give the account of what happened which lines up with what the Scripture says happened.

The tribulation is from the abomination of desolation of Jerusalem/temple until the sun/moon darken when the Day of Wrath begins.

The Day of Wrath involves the trumpets and the bowls (including the beasts and two witnesses).





Stop name-calling. I am not a preterist. I just happen to see that the abomination that caused the desolation of the city/sanctuary was in 66-70AD. I do not think that all has been fulfilled. The tribulation that started with that desolation is still continuing to this day and will be cut short for the sake of the 144,000 if Israel who are sealed by God for protection during the reign of the beasts! The cutting short will happen when a Northern army (joel 2) invades Israel and the sun/moon darken/Day of Wrath begins!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen

Hallelujah! NANA gets it! The abom of desolation was from the desolation of the city/sanctuary until the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath!!!!!!!!!!!​

​

Is the anti-christ ever mentioned in ANY of those passages?

NO!

Is the anti-christ EVER referred to as "the abomination of desolation"?
You are one confused puppy!!! You are so Preterist that it sticks out like a sore thumb!!

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Furthermore, Jesus was answering two VERY SPECIFIC questions:

Mat 24:3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


1. When shall these things (not one stone left on another) be?

Mat 24:15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
...
Mat 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.



2. What will be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the age?

Mat 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven....



So, what happens after the sun/moon darken (seal #6) when the end of the age has come and the Day of Wrath has begun?

Rev 8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Rev 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.


Here's the 5th trumpet:

Rev 9:1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

And the "tribulation" is from the abomination that causes desolation until the Day of Wrath begins, right? The Day of Wrath begins when the sun/moon darken according to Rev 6 -6th seal. The anti-christ doesn't even make an appearance until the 5th & 6th trumpet of the 7th seal according to Rev 8/9.

The city and the sanctuary were destroyed and left desolate in 70AD. Daniel 9:27 is describing how it happened in Daniel 9:26. There is NO mention of the anti-christ.

When did this happen in 70 AD?...Dan 8:25 ~ And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power (Satan enters him) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Jesus); but he shall be broken without hand. (When Christ destroys him at his coming) THAT didn't happen in 70 AD because Jesus hasn't come back yet!!

And when does that beast come out of the bottomless pit? TRUMPET #5 of the 7th seal! AFTER the sun/moon darken immediately AFTER the tribulation which started with the desolation of the temple about 2000 years ago!

You need to be deprogrammed!! How in the world can the beast come after the sun/moon darken when Christ destroys him at his coming?? The sun/moon darken right before He comes and then the wrath starts. That isn't even logical. Who is the beast going to deceive during the wrath LOL!!!!!!!!???? You are SO confused!!!

Nana, stop and think! Jesus was telling Israel that something was coming which would leave their house desolate..."not one stone left on another". Do you think Jesus skipped over the desolation of Jerusalem/the temple in 70 AD followed by the longest and most grievous 2000 years in Jewish history to talk about the anti-christ which doesn't even come on the scene until after the sun/moon darken when the tribulation is over?

CONFUSION!!!

Was Jesus talking about the wrath of God (which includes the reign of the devil) or the tribulation? One is after the sun/moon darken and one is before the sun/moon darken. That darkening of the sun/moon is the turning point. It is the beginning of the Day of Wrath during which the devil is kicked down and allowed to reign for 42 months.

The Devil can't reign during the wrath of God!!! Who is he going to mark, God, the people going to hell only??? The bible states that if it were possible that he shalt deceive the very elect..Matt 24:24. LOL!!!! The wrath is on those who are bound for destruction!!??? LOL!!!!!!! You are so funny!!

The "he" in Daniel 9:26-27 and 11:31-35 would be the leader of the Romans who destroyed the city/sanctuary. Josephus give the account of what happened which lines up with what the Scripture says happened.

I know all about 70 AD and the destruction of the temple. This isn't it!!!

The tribulation is from the abomination of desolation of Jerusalem/temple until the sun/moon darken when the Day of Wrath begins.

Wrongo!! The abomination of desolation is when the man of sin sits his keaster in a newly rebuilt temple. Even Messianic Jews will tell you that much!! But of course you know more

The Day of Wrath involves the trumpets and the bowls (including the beasts and two witnesses).

Gee, I kept hoping that I would hit some truth here...WRONGO again!!! Any brainiac knows that the two witnesses are not here during the wrath of God!!!! They are called up right before the wrath hits..Rev 11:12 ~ And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
wrath...Rev 11:18.. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Going to be kind of hard for the beast to reign during the judgment of the dead and destruction of them who destroy the earth lol!!!!!!!

Stop name-calling. I am not a preterist.

I call them as I see them. Preterists believe the same thing that you do.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Hee Hee. Say my dear friend, don't you think that Jen would fit in nicely with your partial preterist buddies

 

[HisdaughterJen]

When did this happen in 70 AD?...Dan 8:25 ~ And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power (Satan enters him) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Jesus); but he shall be broken without hand. (When Christ destroys him at his coming) THAT didn't happen in 70 AD because Jesus hasn't come back yet!!

I agree. What does this have to do with the abomination of desolation?

You need to be deprogrammed!! How in the world can the beast come after the sun/moon darken when Christ destroys him at his coming?? The sun/moon darken right before He comes and then the wrath starts. That isn't even logical. Who is the beast going to deceive during the wrath LOL!!!!!!!!???? You are SO confused!!!

Because the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath BEGINS when the sun/moon darken just as Rev 6 (6th seal) says! What happens next? THE SEVENTH SEAL!
What happens during the 7th seal? THE TRUMPETS AND THE BOWLS!
THEN Christ comes on the clouds.

This is what Paul told you in 2 Thess 2! THAT DAY OF THE LORD shall not come unless the departure comes first and the man of sin is revealed whom Jesus overthrows by the breath of His mouth as He is coming.

The darkening of the sun/moon is when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath begins (rev 6/Joel2).

The beginning of the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath and the coming of Christ on the clouds are two different events separated by about 42 months!

CONFUSION!!!

The Devil can't reign during the wrath of God!!! Who is he going to mark, God, the people going to hell only??? The bible states that if it were possible that he shalt deceive the very elect..Matt 24:24. LOL!!!! The wrath is on those who are bound for destruction!!??? LOL!!!!!!! You are so funny!!

The devil does reign during the wrath of God on the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath. How do I know? Check it out:

Rev 6:12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Joe 2:31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.




Then what happens when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath has come at the 6th seal? The 7th seal begins with the trumpets and the bowls!


Rev 8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.



The devil goes after "the rest of her offspring", the people God intends to test during that time.

I know all about 70 AD and the destruction of the temple. This isn't it!!!

Wrongo!! The abomination of desolation is when the man of sin sits his keaster in a newly rebuilt temple. Even Messianic Jews will tell you that much!! But of course you know more

Josephus even claimed Daniel was referring to the Romans!

"Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them." (Josephus Antiquities 10.11.7).

Gee, I kept hoping that I would hit some truth here...WRONGO again!!! Any brainiac knows that the two witnesses are not here during the wrath of God!!!! They are called up right before the wrath hits..Rev 11:12 ~ And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
wrath...Rev 11:18.. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Going to be kind of hard for the beast to reign during the judgment of the dead and destruction of them who destroy the earth lol!!!!!!!

The wrath of God forces people to make a choice. Destruction is all that is left for those who don't choose Him after the wrath (trumpets and the bowls) is poured out.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hee Hee. Say my dear friend, don't you think that Jen would fit in nicely with your partial preterist buddies

I blieve some of them have turned Full Preterist so can no longer post here

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I agree. What does this have to do with the abomination of desolation?

It is only one chapter before Daniel 9:27. Daniel 9:27 is talking about the same time period as Danel 8 that I posted!! The very same he, but one is called a he and the other a king of fierce countenance.

Because the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath BEGINS when the sun/moon darken just as Rev 6 (6th seal) says! What happens next? THE SEVENTH SEAL!

What happens during the 7th seal? THE TRUMPETS AND THE BOWLS!
THEN Christ comes on the clouds.

Christ comes at the 7th and last angel sounding, so what is your point?

This is what Paul told you in 2 Thess 2! THAT DAY OF THE LORD shall not come unless the departure comes first and the man of sin is revealed whom Jesus overthrows by the breath of His mouth as He is coming.

Here we go again. The "departure" is NOT the church leaving. It is a departure from the truth...apostasy.

The darkening of the sun/moon is when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath begins (rev 6/Joel2).

The Day of The Lord/Wrath are the same thing. It is the Second Coming/Day of the Lord that begins with the sun/moon darkening. Christ comes first in Matt 24:30, and then it talks about the wrath when it states this at the end of that chapter...Matt 24:51 ~ And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The wrath is for the lost, not the church...Second Coming/Wrath..all on the DAY of the Lord.

The beginning of the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath and the coming of Christ on the clouds are two different events separated by about 42 months!

The beast reigns for 42 months!! The Day of The Lord and the Wrath are on the same day as they are the same thing. The Second Coming once again is on that day with the wrath!! I know that's to hard for you since it says "Day" of the Lord. Just out of curiosity, let's see Jens math for "predicting" Jesus coming about 42 months later?

The devil does reign during the wrath of God on the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath. How do I know? Check it out:

Rev 6:12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Oh for pity sakes. You better re-read these. They are both the wrath of the Lamb, not the Devil!!! Rev 6:16 ~ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Joe 2:31

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Yeah, so what's your point with this one? This is common knowledge.

I can't go on with this. It's almost like talking to zspeedyrabbit!!
Wonder where he went ​

Then what happens when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath has come at the 6th seal? The 7th seal begins with the trumpets and the bowls!


Rev 8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.



The devil goes after "the rest of her offspring", the people God intends to test during that time.



Josephus even claimed Daniel was referring to the Romans!

"Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them." (Josephus Antiquities 10.11.7).



The wrath of God forces people to make a choice. Destruction is all that is left for those who don't choose Him after the wrath (trumpets and the bowls) is poured out.[/quote]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The devil does reign during the wrath of God on the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath. How do I know? Check it out:

Rev 6:12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Oh for pity sakes. You better re-read these. They are both

the wrath of the Lamb, not the Devil!!!

Hmm. Let's look at the Greek for a moment. There are only 3 places in Rev this form of the word "coming" in 1 John 2 is used.

1 of those is JESUS coming on the Clouds in Reve 1, the other 2 are with the 2 Woes. Pretty interesting [an Interlinear is useful for this]

http://www.scripture4all.org/
​

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last Hour it-is, and according-as ye hear that the anti-christ is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736).
And now anti-christs, many have become, whence we are knowing that last Hour it-is. [ercetai <2064> (5736) Reve 1:7, 9:12, 11:14].

Reve 9:12 The woe the one departs, behold! is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) still two woes after these

Reve 11:14 The woe the second departs behold! the woe the third is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) swiftly.


​

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Hmm. Let's look at the Greek for a moment. There are only 3 places in Rev this form of the word "coming" in 1 John 2 is used.

1 of those is JESUS coming on the Clouds in Reve 1, the other 2 are with the 2 Woes. Pretty interesting [an Interlinear is useful for this]​

I have an "interlinear." He has a name..Holy Spirit

​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

dan 9:24-27, matt 24:15-20, 2 thes 2:4, rev 12:6-12, rev 13:5-6

all connect

as soon as the Holy Spirit changes his prsence here on earth to in Heaven the Beast takes over .. 2 thes 2:7, rev 4:5, jh 14:16-20

There are some that do not believe Revelation is the same event as the Olivet Discourse.
In fact a relative of mine flat out said NO! to them being the same

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Matt 5-7 is different than Matt 24-25 very different

 

[ezek33]

Matt 5-7 is different than Matt 24-25 very different

Now that is a revelation...lol

 

[HisdaughterJen]

It is only one chapter before Daniel 9:27. Daniel 9:27 is talking about the same time period as Danel 8 that I posted!! The very same he, but one is called a he and the other a king of fierce countenance.
Christ comes at the 7th and last angel sounding, so what is your point?
Here we go again. The "departure" is NOT the church leaving. It is a departure from the truth...apostasy.

The Day of The Lord/Wrath are the same thing. It is the Second Coming/Day of the Lord that begins with the sun/moon darkening. Christ comes first in Matt 24:30, and then it talks about the wrath when it states this at the end of that chapter...Matt 24:51 ~ And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The wrath is for the lost, not the church...Second Coming/Wrath..all on the DAY of the Lord.

The beast reigns for 42 months!! The Day of The Lord and the Wrath are on the same day as they are the same thing. The Second Coming once again is on that day with the wrath!! I know that's to hard for you since it says "Day" of the Lord. Just out of curiosity, let's see Jens math for "predicting" Jesus coming about 42 months later?

Oh for pity sakes. You better re-read these. They are both the wrath of the Lamb, not the Devil!!! Rev 6:16 ~ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Yeah, so what's your point with this one? This is common knowledge.

I can't go on with this. It's almost like talking to zspeedyrabbit!!
Wonder where he went ​

Then what happens when the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath has come at the 6th seal? The 7th seal begins with the trumpets and the bowls!


Rev 8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.



The devil goes after "the rest of her offspring", the people God intends to test during that time.



Josephus even claimed Daniel was referring to the Romans!

"Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them." (Josephus Antiquities 10.11.7).



The wrath of God forces people to make a choice. Destruction is all that is left for those who don't choose Him after the wrath (trumpets and the bowls) is poured out.

Nana, I do not understand why you cannot see that the tribulation is before the sun/moon darkening and the ourpouring of wrath is after the sun/moon darkening on the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath.

I do not understand why you cannot see that the trumpets and bowls happen in the 7th seal, after the 6th seal sun/moon darkening.

I do not understand why you cannot see that the devil is reigning during the 7th seal trumpets and bowls.

I do not understand why you think that the abomination of desolation is the anti-christ when Jesus clearly said it's the destruction of Jersusalem/the temple when "not one stone will be left on another".

All you have to do is read it to see it. I can't make you read it and I can't make you understand it.

Hopefully, these scriptures and our conversation has shown people to really look at what is being said and not assume erroneous things like the "tribulation" is the reign of the antichrist or the abom of desolation is the anti-christ. NO scripture says those things.

We all need to let go of what we have been taught and let God instruct us and show us the truth. Ask, seek, knock.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Nana, I do not understand why you cannot see that the tribulation is before the sun/moon darkening and the ourpouring of wrath is after the sun/moon darkening on the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath.

I DO see this. I always have. Either you aren't explaining yourself well, or making it more confusing then it needs to be.

I do not understand why you cannot see that the trumpets and bowls happen in the 7th seal, after the 6th seal sun/moon darkening.

Yes, I know this also.

I do not understand why you cannot see that the devil is reigning during the 7th seal trumpets and bowls.

I can see that in Rev chapter 9 because it talks about the angel of the bottomless pit, but it doesn't mention the devil in 7 or 8 that I can see. I know that he is still on earth right up until Christ binds him for 1000 years during the millinnium, so yes, he is on earth. Once again, no clear reasoning for you even mentioning this. You will post a lot of scripture like yesterday with no explanation of referring to what or why. If you would cut that out and get right to the heart of the matter, understanding would be so much clearer.

I do not understand why you think that the abomination of desolation is the anti-christ when Jesus clearly said it's the destruction of Jersusalem/the temple when "not one stone will be left on another".

Because Daniel 9 is the key. Matthew and Mark wouldn't have stated "as told by the prophet Daniel..whoso readeth let him understand". Well, I understand, and evidently you don't at this point. Daniel wouldn't have stated this unless it was to "continue" in the future, because this hasn't happened yet...Dan 9:24 ~ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish ( it had already started) the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. This happens ONLY during the reign of the beast when they recognize that Christ is their true Messiah. Read Luke 21 and it may become clearer to you regarding "not one stone left upon another," although it is almost like Matt 24. The destruction of the temple in 70 AD may have be the beginning of the "transgression," but it isn't finished until the abomination of desolation and the desolations on Israel during the trib which afterwards Christ dwells with them.

All you have to do is read it to see it. I can't make you read it and I can't make you understand it.

I understand it just fine.

Hopefully, these scriptures and our conversation has shown people to really look at what is being said and not assume erroneous things like the "tribulation" is the reign of the antichrist or the abom of desolation is the anti-christ. NO scripture says those things.

Well, hopefully when people read this that they can see that you are out in left field. Most Christians that I know in real life and on here believe that the beast reigns during the tribulation as I do. You are part of a small minority that doesn't believe this. I will go with what the bible shows me, and not what you DON"T see....YET.

We all need to let go of what we have been taught and let God instruct us and show us the truth. Ask, seek, knock.

Good advice. Hopefully you are going to take it.