Praying TO Saints

[Thekla]

Very well. I just prayed to Michael the Archangel and asked him to pass me the salt. Oddly enough, the salt did not get passed to me. That leaves several possibilities, as follow:

1. He did not hear my prayer.
2. He disdains the prayer as beneath his glorious power.
3. He is incapable of passing the salt.
4. He is not in the business of hearing and answering prayers.

It seems to me to be a much easier task to pass someone the salt than to fend off legions of demons.

Or he doesn't do parlour tricks.

 

[rosenherman]

Yes, It is. I personally prefer to ask God for protection but if someone wants supernatural help from another being other than God..... then they know which denominations to go to.

I wouldn't want supernatural help from anyone but Our Lord. Supernatural help from anything other than The Trinity is more likely to be demonic.

 

[rosenherman]

Is that bad? St Michael leads the heavenly hosts in battle against the demons. Why wouldn't we ask him to fight the demons who are bothering us?
​

Because he's not God.

 

[rosenherman]

Very well. I just prayed to Michael the Archangel and asked him to pass me the salt. Oddly enough, the salt did not get passed to me. That leaves several possibilities, as follow:

1. He did not hear my prayer.
2. He disdains the prayer as beneath his glorious power.
3. He is incapable of passing the salt.
4. He is not in the business of hearing and answering prayers.

It seems to me to be a much easier task to pass someone the salt than to fend off legions of demons.

Woot!!!

 

[rosenherman]

Change the word "Michael" to "God" and you have the same argument an atheist would make regarding prayer in general.

I am not an atheist. I know God answers prayer. I know that it is sinful to pray to anyone/anything other than God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Thekla]

I can certainly ask anyone living to help me. My Bible says not to ask the dead for anything.

This raises two questions:

1. When asking another Christian to help you, do you only ask the person to pray for you ?

2. The Holy Scripture attests that those with Christ are not dead; do you think the body of Christ, Who conquered death, is divided by death (ie, part of Christ is dead) ?

 

[Christos Anesti]

I've experienced the power of God to answer prayer as well. However... if you try asking him to pass the salt do you think He will do it? If He didn't would that show that prayer was pointless or that He can't hear you or anything to that effect?

I've also experienced the power of the intercession of my name Saint- Saint Seraphim of Sarov. I can't deny that either.

 

[rosenherman]

This raises two questions:

1. When asking another Christian to help you, do you only ask the person to pray for you ?

That is a very silly question.

2. The Holy Scripture attests that those with Christ are not dead; do you think the body of Christ, Who conquered death, is divided by death (ie, part of Christ is dead) ?

The dead believers are certainly separated from us. They have another existence in heaven after they died.

 

[rosenherman]

I've experienced the power of God to answer prayer as well. However... if you try asking him to pass the salt do you think He will do it? If He didn't would that show that prayer was pointless or that He can't hear you or anything to that effect?

I am not saying that the lack of result means that praying to saints is ineffective. I'm saying that it is sinful.

 

[Thekla]

That is a very silly question.

It was related to the misunderstanding previously discussed.
Saints, and hopefully saints, will only do the will of God. As Saints have finished their course, and (as Paul says) with Christ, their will is fully in accord with His will. This is not always true of saints, who have not finished their course.

The dead believers are certainly separated from us. They have another existence in heaven after they died.

If the "dead believers" are separated from us, the the body of Christ is divided, Christ is divided. I do not believe this; I believe that the body of Christ is not divided.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It was related to the misunderstanding previously discussed.
Saints, and hopefully saints, will only do the will of God. As Saints have finished their course, and (as Paul says) with Christ, their will is fully in accord with His will. This is not always true of saints, who have not finished their course.

You raise an interesting point here. If the saints have finished their course (their works are complete) then why are they still working in heaven? It seems that their course is far from finished.

 

[rosenherman]

If the "dead believers" are separated from us, the the body of Christ is divided, Christ is divided. I do not believe this; I believe that the body of Christ is not divided.

Then you can ask my grandmother a question for me, or even my mother.
They were both believers and have been dead since the 1970's. Ask my mother for her creamed onion recipe or ask Nana about the polish she used on her entryway handrail.

 

[Thekla]

You raise an interesting point here. If the saints have finished their course (their works are complete) then why are they still working in heaven? It seems that their course is far from finished.

How is love for another, and doing the will of God "work" ?

 

[Thekla]

Then you can ask my grandmother a question for me, or even my mother.
They were both believers and have been dead since the 1970's. Ask my mother for her creamed onion recipe or ask Nana about the polish she used on her entryway handrail.

What idea do you mean to express to me with this request ?

 

[rosenherman]

What idea do you mean to express to me with this request ?

If you believe the dead in Christ aren't separated from the living in Christ, then you can, obviously, see and speak to them. Although you should consider that Revelation says that "the dead in Christ rise first".

 

[kenblaster5000]

Indeed, the scriptures have a depth that we can continuously 'dive into'; they do not change, but what we can find there often reflects our disposition and depth of relationship to God.

I think I understand, and I do agree based on what I understand. But I don't divide between the body of Christ I can and cannot "see" - as the body of Christ is not divided.

I am not sure what you mean by repetitions ...
Christ did state as a command to, "when you pray, pray this" and then gives the Lord's prayer. As this is given as a command, then we do say it more than once in our lives.

Yes, God says in His word to dive in without fear of rocks or depths. I can see of the body of Christ in the seen world and some of the unseen. I have also seen the unseen side of the opposition. As is noted in the old testament a prophet prayed that a man's eyes would be opened to see that there was more on their side than the opposition. He saw into the unseen as the seer did. The body of Christ appears to the world to be divided. Those who are truly His, the wheat, the sheep, as opposed to the chaff, the goats. The former seem to be undivided. The Lord's prayer is not considered vain repetition, which is what I meant here. There is instruction in the Lord's prayer, but if we lay the same foundation of repentance in prayer, it seems to be vain if what we pray for we pick up again, as addictions. Or just a prayer we have thought up that just becomes stagnant, unmoving, lukewarm. We must always be moving and growing, otherwise we just stand still and rot like standing water. Constant movement and fervent prayer is a satisfying, sweet smell in the nostrils of God, but repetitive, vain, stagnant prayer must smell like sulfur or methane to Him. Well, be blessed.

 

[Dorothea]

I do not necessarily have the time for you to explain everything about the succession from pentacost, but I strictly do not believe that these churches stem from Peter the apostle. If anything catholicism would be considered apostate especially with a lot of the popes who womanized, adulterers, nicolaitans, downright dirty scoundrels. Anyhow, they will be judged for their works. Back to Peter and pentecost. If these churches stem from that time of pentecost, why did they not keep the fire of the tongues burning and especially the spiritual gifts. And please do not tell me that all things have come to perfection and that we do not need it anymore. I speak in tongues, and it is a marvelous gift. I might be ignorant of alot of stuff but am not stupid. Thank whoever kept the scriptures intact over the years because I love the word of God. I know God and the Holy Spirit had a major part in that. For anyone really to get the glory for that would be thievery. Maybe we can keep this narrowed down a bit, because I am all over the place. But, just because history tells you something does not necessarily mean it is true. The word of God is true. All other stuff deserves to be scrutinized.

Most of your questions are for the Catholics, our brothers and sisters in Christ. It might be best to direct your questions to one of them. They pop in here often.

You have many questions. I would just ask that you to do some research on Eastern Orthodoxy, not the Western side of history - Catholicism to the Reformation. "The Orthodox Church" by Kallistos Ware is a good historical overview of the OC.

As far as your last comments, the Church has preserved the Scriptures through Holy Tradition, and has been led by the Holy Spirit from the beginning (Pentacost). There have been bad bishops and good bishops, and heresies fought and overcome. The Church survived that and genecide, Communism, Ottoman oppression and persecution. This is a good testament to the Holy Spirit and God's promise that the gates of hades would not prevail against his Church.

 

[Thekla]

If you believe the dead in Christ aren't separated from the living in Christ, then you can, obviously, see and speak to them. Although you should consider that Revelation says that "the dead in Christ rise first".

Yes, the resurrection of the body is first of those who are presently with Christ.

I can certainly pray for them; I do not know of their lives or their exhibited closeness to God. There are numerous Saints who are not widely known, but still lived in a manner well pleasing to God, as He was their center from which emanated every action (even the struggle against 'themselves'). As I do not know of them, I leave this to you.

Here, if you are unfamiliar with this:
"_______, if you are bold before God, please pray for me."
(where the name is given of the addressee)

 

[Dorothea]

Or he doesn't do parlour tricks.

And true, heartfelt, tearful prayers are answered, not sarcastic ones, which only insult, not respect.

 

[kenblaster5000]

You have many questions. I would just ask that you to do some research on Eastern Orthodoxy, not the Western side of history - Catholicism to the Reformation. "The Orthodox Church" by Kallistos Ware is a good historical overview of the OC.

Much study is a weariness to the flesh.

As far as your last comments, the Church has preserved the Scriptures through Holy Tradition, and has been led by the Holy Spirit from the beginning (Pentacost). There have been bad bishops and good bishops, and heresies fought and overcome. The Church survived that and genecide, Communism, Ottoman oppression and persecution. This is a good testament to the Holy Spirit and God's promise that the gates of hades would not prevail against his Church.

By your signature in your profile, I see that this saint does not realize that without faith it is impossible to please God. If most of your churches were not so lukewarm, the enemy might come against you. Seems that the stagnant church overcomes the enemy by laying down and going to sleep. If you rise up you will find opposition from the enemy then you will understand that you must have faith, prayer, the armor of God, the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and hate your own lives to the death, in order to overcome the enemy. These are examples of the body of Christ that the gates of hell cannot prevail against. The devil and his demons will not waste their time on those who are not advancing. If you are advancing, then you will agree. If we are attacked, it is because we are doing something dangerous to the kingdom of darkness. I do not know about you all, but I am anointed, appointed, and approved. I am anointed, dangerous, and a mighty voice for God. All of you can be too. If we are not doing His will, His purpose, why would He anoint us. We would have nothing to do with that anointing, and without His anointing, we cannot carry on a great purpose. Dorothea, I have typed in here before, you may have missed. I really do not need that anyone teach me, but the anointing teaches me all things I need to know. I do not need to waste my time and energy on learning your traditions and your dead works. You have been on the border of insulting me, and you do not even know who or what you deal with. I love you though, and if I become your enemy because I tell you the truth..then, amen. So be it. I do have alot of questions. It seems that that is all this really brings up and that is a weariness to the flesh. Be blessed.