Praying TO Saints

[soleil]

Pray TO the Saints.

Ask the Saints TO pray for you.

Big difference, even w/out going into the earth or heaven or purgatory or hell question of a Saint's location.


Saint SUP---

Peace be unto you.


.

No difference. They both mean the same thing.

But you went to the wrong church!

 

[rosenherman]

No difference. They both mean the same thing.

Do you mean to say that praying to a saint is the same thing as asking a saint to pray for you?

 

[rosenherman]

I think you might be misunderstanding the OP. As I understand it, this is not the typical discussion about asking saints to convey our prayers to God for us, but to pray and ask the saints to do things for us. For example, rather than asking a saint to intercede with God for healing, one prays to the saint, asking the saint to heal them. If the belief is present that the saint can perform miracles of healing, then the saint must have quasi-divine attributes to do so.

You are absolutely correct. I am questioning praying to saints, not asking them to pray for you. These posts were asking saint so and so to protect and guide them. Not asking God to have the saint do so, praying to the saint himself.

 

[rosenherman]

In asking the Saints to pray for us, and in noting the example of their lives, we attest that the body of Christ is not divided, that Christ is victorious.

No! They were asking saint so and so to do something for them. They were praying to a saint, not asking the saint to pray for them. Go back and read the OP again.

 

[soleil]

Do you mean to say that praying to a saint is the same thing as asking a saint to pray for you?

Yes.
The terminology can be confused. Praying can mean asking also.

We pray to God. That would mean worshipping and can also mean asking.
Praying to a saint is really asking them to pray for us.

 

[soleil]

You are absolutely correct. I am questioning praying to saints, not asking them to pray for you. These posts were asking saint so and so to protect and guide them. Not asking God to have the saint do so, praying to the saint himself.

Oh forgive me.
I took this wrong.
I ask the saints to pray for me. Not for God to have the saint do something for me.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You are absolutely correct. I am questioning praying to saints, not asking them to pray for you. These posts were asking saint so and so to protect and guide them. Not asking God to have the saint do so, praying to the saint himself.

Thank you for confirming that my understanding of your OP is correct. I hope that others here also understand it.

 

[Montalban]

Pray TO the Saints.

Ask the Saints TO pray for you.

Actually there isn't. Asking them to pray for us, we pray to them. That's how we do it

 

[Montalban]

Do you mean to say that praying to a saint is the same thing as asking a saint to pray for you?

Yes.

 

[Thekla]

No! They were asking saint so and so to do something for them. They were praying to a saint, not asking the saint to pray for them. Go back and read the OP again.

As before, the Saint is entirely referential to God (" it is not I who live, but Christ Who lives in me ... " St. Paul). To ask anything of someone who lives their life in complete obedience to God, whose only will is to do the will of God, is the same as asking for them to pray to God.

So, the language you use represents a "shorthand".

 

[kenblaster5000]

Certainly, Paul provided both guidance and protection (both in action and as example ... "be imitating me ..." and those who walk in Christ; this is taught by Paul. Whatever assistance Paul provided was in the Holy Spirit. And Paul was able to 'hear' the prayer of the Macedonian man -- this indicates the action of the Holy Spirit. We do not say that Paul hearing the prayer of the Macedonian was because Paul had quasi-divine attributes.

Who do you imitate? Christ or other Catholics that do what you are saying some Catholics do. Have you ever been born of the Holy Spirit. You must be born again to see the kingdom of God. There is a difference between having Christ in your mind but not truly in your heart. Do not be deceived for you will also deceive and those who will follow after you will imitate the imitatation you are. Be blessed.

 

[Thekla]

Who do you imitate? Christ or other Catholics that do what you are saying some Catholics do. Have you ever been born of the Holy Spirit. You must be born again to see the kingdom of God. There is a difference between having Christ in your mind but not truly in your heart. Do not be deceived for you will also deceive and those who will follow after you will imitate the imitatation you are. Be blessed.

It is Paul who exhorts :" Be imitators of me, brothers and sisters, and watch carefully those who are living this way, just as you have us as an example" (Philippians 3:17).

Paul, as a "spiritual father" teaches that we are to imitate him and those who walk in Christ. It is the goal of the spiritual father to, by exhortation, advice and example, to make of his charges sons of God. In example, Paul and others interpret/demonstrate the Gospel.

(I am not RC, btw.)

I agree, there is a difference between an intellectual assent to Christ (in this case Christianity becomes an 'ideology') and the conversion of the heart to Christ; as before, "their hearts shall live for ever". The conversion of the heart emmanates throughout the person, and Christianity is not then an intellectual assent, but the whole person is transformed towards Christ - "... from glory to glory ..." (St. Peter). In this person, is evidenced in its fullness "the Way", Christianity as life lived by the entirety of the person with Christ at the center.

 

[Montalban]

Who do you imitate? Christ or other Catholics that do what you are saying some Catholics do. Have you ever been born of the Holy Spirit. You must be born again to see the kingdom of God. There is a difference between having Christ in your mind but not truly in your heart. Do not be deceived for you will also deceive and those who will follow after you will imitate the imitatation you are. Be blessed.

"Other Catholics" implies you think Thekla is Catholic.

 

[kenblaster5000]

It is Paul who exhorts :" Be imitators of me, brothers and sisters, and watch carefully those who are living this way, just as you have us as an example" (Philippians 3:17).

Paul, as a "spiritual father" teaches that we are to imitate him and those who walk in Christ. It is the goal of the spiritual father to, by exhortation, advice and example, to make of his charges sons of God. In example, Paul and others interpret/demonstrate the Gospel.

(I am not RC, btw.)

I agree, there is a difference between an intellectual assent to Christ (in this case Christianity becomes an 'ideology') and the conversion of the heart to Christ; as before, "their hearts shall live for ever". The conversion of the heart emmanates throughout the person, and Christianity is not then an intellectual assent, but the whole person is transformed towards Christ - "... from glory to glory ..." (St. Peter). In this person, is evidenced in its fullness "the Way", Christianity as life lived by the entirety of the person with Christ at the center.

Now, first off, let me apologize for being so rash. Paul is not your spiritual father. He was Timothy's though. Who truly is your spiritual father? I ask this not to pry, but for you to answer that for yourself. Now, I will show in Hebrews about our moderator which is Jesus Christ. It is through Him that we find grace. It is through Him that we are given the Holy Spirit, the helper, our comforter, counselor. I will make this short because I myself cannot stand a long explanation for something that I have my heart and mind set upon already what is true.
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may find grace to help in time of need.
My spiritual mother here on earth is my pastor and father, well He is gone to the Lord. I am under stewards of the word, the anointing of others, humbling myself until I can carry that anointing myself. I am born of the Holy Spirit, water, and fire. The Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God.
1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1 John 2:26-27
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

 

[kenblaster5000]

"Other Catholics" implies you think Thekla is Catholic.

Yes, I assumed the person mentioned is Catholic, because the doctrine of praying to saints and/ or saints praying for you is of Catholic, and she has what is familiar to me to be a Catholic prayer and mentions a holy Catholic church. Do many of you pray to statues? I do not just go by hearsay, but I like to get in and ask questions of people who are of what is gossiped about. Be blessed.

 

[kenblaster5000]

As before, the Saint is entirely referential to God (" it is not I who live, but Christ Who lives in me ... " St. Paul). To ask anything of someone who lives their life in complete obedience to God, whose only will is to do the will of God, is the same as asking for them to pray to God.

So, the language you use represents a "shorthand".

There is quite a difference between being in obedience to God and the commandments of men. What do you know of the pharisees?

 

[Thekla]

Now, first off, let me apologize for being so rash.

That's okay

Paul is not your spiritual father. He was Timothy's though.

Paul stated that he was the spiritual father to many; we have many 'spiritual fathers' but only one Father. As per Paul, we are to imitate those who walk the Way of Christ. It is the demonstration of the Way that interprets the Gospel; the Way (the early term for Christianity) is not a list of precepts, but a way of life. Thus, we are exhorted to imitate; here is a measure: "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?" (1 Corinthians 6:2) Those who walk Christ expose what is not walking in Christ by their disposition and actions.

Who truly is your spiritual father? I ask this not to pry, but for you to answer that for yourself. Now, I will show in Hebrews about our moderator which is Jesus Christ. It is through Him that we find grace. It is through Him that we are given the Holy Spirit, the helper, our comforter, counselor. I will make this short because I myself cannot stand a long explanation for something that I have my heart and mind set upon already what is true.
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may find grace to help in time of need.

Indeed, Christ is our Priest, our Savior (He Who confers wholeness), our guide, our Hope. He is the mesitis/covenant giver, and also intercedes for us. But again, as Paul teaches, we are to pray for each other even as Christ also intercedes for us. The goal of our spiritual fathers is to make of us sons of God. They foster and encourage, exhort and correct -- this by demonstrating the Way. Christ both taught and demonstrated what He taught in action. Throughout Acts and the Epistles the same method is described: to teach in both word and deed. This method is continued in the saints, and in the lives of the Saints who have "finished their course".

The body of Christ is whole - as Christ is wholeness and He who makes whole. To ask the Saints for their prayers is to attest, to confess that Christ is whole, and that Christ has conquered death. His body is not divided; Satan did not win. Glory be to Jesus Christ !

My spiritual mother here on earth is my pastor and father, well He is gone to the Lord. I am under stewards of the word, the anointing of others, humbling myself until I can carry that anointing myself. I am born of the Holy Spirit, water, and fire. The Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God.
1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1 John 2:26-27
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

I agree - though historically the various disagreements evidenced indicate that humans wax and wane. This occurs when the Gospel is not lived, but is only an intellectual adherence. In the Saints, the lives lived are in accord in "interpreting", demonstrating the Gospel in action/s.

 

[Thekla]

There is quite a difference between being in obedience to God and the commandments of men. What do you know of the pharisees?

Adherence as ideology, not life

Again, the Saints teach by doing. They also sometimes describe (leave writings), but what they write is the description of what is lived. So, they do not have an "ideology" or "legalisms" (which encourages ensnarement by rationalization) -- but as Christ is truly the center of their existence, their actions are the result of this "center".

" Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD." (Psalm 118:26)

 

[Standing Up]

As before, the Saint is entirely referential to God (" it is not I who live, but Christ Who lives in me ... " St. Paul). To ask anything of someone who lives their life in complete obedience to God, whose only will is to do the will of God, is the same as asking for them to pray to God.

So, the language you use represents a "shorthand".

That's the assumption. So, one may not be a saint, but a Saint. See the difference?

 

[Thekla]

That's the assumption. So, one may not be a saint, but a Saint. See the difference?

not sure I do, Standing Up ... sorry !