Praying for the dead

[Basil the Great]

While it our prayers may or may not be of benefit to the departed, my question is why not offer prayers up for them? What harm can it do? Is there anything wrong with praying for dead relatives and asking God to forgive them and grant them peace?

 

[DaRev]

While it our prayers may or may not be of benefit to the departed, my question is why not offer prayers up for them? What harm can it do? Is there anything wrong with praying for dead relatives and asking God to forgive them and grant them peace?

It's a waste of time. It's better to pray for those who can still be forgiven.

 

[Luther073082]

It's a waste of time. It's better to pray for those who can still be forgiven.

The confessions see no problem with prayers for the dead and I don't either.

It may not do any good in terms of that person's salvation, however if it gives comfort, then I think it can be a good thing.

As for the dead, since Scripture gives us no information on the subject, I regard it as no sin to pray with free devotion in this or some similar fashion: 'Dear God, if this soul is in a condition accessible to mercy, be thou gracious to it.' And when this has been done once or twice, let it suffice. For vigils and requiem masses and yearly celebrations of requiems are useless, and merely the devil's annual fair. - Martin Luther (Confession Concerning Christ's Supper" (1528), in Luther's Works, vol. 37, p. 369)

Its Adiaphora...

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

While it our prayers may or may not be of benefit to the departed, my question is why not offer prayers up for them? What harm can it do? Is there anything wrong with praying for dead relatives and asking God to forgive them and grant them peace?

1. Seems like a waste of time. We are to be good stewards of all God gives us - including the 24 hours of a day.

2. It CAN do harm if such leads us to believe it CAN do some good.

3. I think it GOOD to pray for the grieving relatives still among us.





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[Aibrean]

Why not baptize them while you're at it...isn't there a verse about that somewhere?

 

[Luther073082]

Wow I've never seen so many confessional Lutherans come out against the confessions and Luther. . . both of which are not against prayers for the dead.

And I do pray for the dead much in the manner that Luther described.

It has tradition in the church and the confessions rightly consider it Adiaphora.

 

[Bryne]

I agree

 

[alexnbethmom]

I agree

with what part?

i agree with Rev - there isn't much point in praying for someone who has already passed on - their fate, one way or another, is sealed.....i'd rather pray for those still alive who can still be forgiven....

 

[DaRev]

Wow I've never seen so many confessional Lutherans come out against the confessions and Luther. . . both of which are not against prayers for the dead.

And I do pray for the dead much in the manner that Luther described.

It has tradition in the church and the confessions rightly consider it Adiaphora.

You say some strong words. Be careful, sir.

While the Confessions do not outright reject prayers for the dead, they do condemn sacrificial acts (i.e. the Mass, etc.) on behalf of the dead, and prayer is a sacrificial act. It is best that we pray once for the recently deceased that the Lord would bring them unto Himself. Continued prayer for such suggests an ex opera operato belief which the Confessions are adamantly opposed to.

Also, what would the nature of such prayer be? The dead are basically at the state that they will be for eternity. Prayer cannot benefit them. Our prayers are best reserved for giving thanks for the life of the deceased and the gift of faith that our Lord imparted upon them. Anything beyond that could easily lead to an ex opera operato sense which opposes both Luther and the Confessions.

 

[Zecryphon]

Here is an article taken from the WELS website on praying to the dead. It mentions Mary and the Saints, but includes instruction on prayers to the dead as well.

Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS)

 

[alexnbethmom]

zec - they're not talking about praying TO the dead, they're talking about praying FOR the dead....

 

[Zecryphon]

zec - they're not talking about praying TO the dead, they're talking about praying FOR the dead....

Why would you pray for the dead? God has told us in His word what will happen to the dead in Christ and the dead who are not in Christ. What could we possibly hope to change for a dead person by praying for them?

 

[Basil the Great]

I could ask then why pray for the living? Prayers are an attempt to touch the heart of God and to get him to do something. None of us knows for certain what fate is in store for any individual person's soul or for that matter whether or not there is some intermeddiate state - be it the Catholic Purgatory, the Orthodox Toll Houses or something else. Also, even if the thesis of most Protestants is correct, that souls go to either Heaven or Hell immediately upon death, there is the strong possibility that there are numerous levels of Hell and/or different forms of punishment in Hell. Hence, perhaps a prayer or two for a departed loved one who is destined for Hell might still touch the heart of God and have some positive impact for the deceased.

It does make sense to me when the Lutheran Confessions oppose praying endlessly for the dead. However, a prayer or two does make sense to me.

 

[alexnbethmom]

"...why pray for the living?"

are you kidding with this?

when you hear of someone's passing, say a prayer for their soul, and then stop - nothing more can be done, one way or another.

 

[DaRev]

I could ask then why pray for the living? Prayers are an attempt to touch the heart of God and to get him to do something. None of us knows for certain what fate is in store for any individual person's soul or for that matter whether or not there is some intermeddiate state - be it the Catholic Purgatory, the Orthodox Toll Houses or something else. Also, even if the thesis of most Protestants is correct, that souls go to either Heaven or Hell immediately upon death, there is the strong possibility that there are numerous levels of Hell and/or different forms of punishment in Hell. Hence, perhaps a prayer or two for a departed loved one who is destined for Hell might still touch the heart of God and have some positive impact for the deceased.

It does make sense to me when the Lutheran Confessions oppose praying endlessly for the dead. However, a prayer or two does make sense to me.

And you base all of this on......

 

[AngCath]

I'm okay with (and do) prayer for the dead as long as it is in the context previously mentioned. Upon hearing of someone's death or at a funeral it seems appropriate to say a prayer commending that person to God's care, but masses to speed along someone's time in purgatory are another matter altogether.

 

[Basil the Great]

And you base all of this on......

Rev - I base it on the fact that huge numbers of people all across the world have reported seeing the spirits of dead people walking the Earth, namely ghosts. The Biography Channel has a series called Celebrity Ghost Stories where famous people that we all know have come forth to tell their stories publicly. There are similiar series on television, but I consider this one to be the best. Too many of these ghosts have been identified as the spirits of former human beings for all of these reports to be demons. Some of these ghostly encounters have even proved helpful to those involved, which strongly disproves the theory that all these reports are that of demons.

I have studied this subject for decades and firmly believe that there is some sort of intermediate state after death, at least for some people. Also, the tradition of Christians praying for the souls of the dead goes back a long way in Church history. Based upon this fact alone, I do not know how you can so swiftly disregard the practice. Again, I am absolutely not in favor of Masses for the dead. I am only recommending individual prayers.

 

[Aibrean]

You only have the chance for salvation while you are living. I'm sorry but I fail to see how walking aimlessly in another "phase" has any Biblical support for that being where the dead go.

The devil is very good at being deceitful. He's also skilled at being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[Luther073082]

While the Confessions do not outright reject prayers for the dead, they do condemn sacrificial acts (i.e. the Mass, etc.) on behalf of the dead, and prayer is a sacrificial act. It is best that we pray once for the recently deceased that the Lord would bring them unto Himself. Continued prayer for such suggests an ex opera operato belief which the Confessions are adamantly opposed to.

And who said that I prayed more then once?? In fact that is basically what I do. . . I pray once for them. . . Typically at funerals.

I'm not advocating continual prayer for the dead, that would be a pointless waste of time. But the way everyone sounds here as if its somehow wrong to pray for God's mercy on a recently departed soul. . . And if thats a waste of time then it would be also a waste to pray for our own mercy.

Also, what would the nature of such prayer be? The dead are basically at the state that they will be for eternity. Prayer cannot benefit them. Our prayers are best reserved for giving thanks for the life of the deceased and the gift of faith that our Lord imparted upon them. Anything beyond that could easily lead to an ex opera operato sense which opposes both Luther and the Confessions.

A simple prayer that God have mercy on them. The same thing that I pray for myself every day. . . except I pray this for them after their passing and only once.

 

[DaRev]

Rev - I base it on the fact that huge numbers of people all across the world have reported seeing the spirits of dead people walking the Earth, namely ghosts. The Biography Channel has a series called Celebrity Ghost Stories where famous people that we all know have come forth to tell their stories publicly. There are similiar series on television, but I consider this one to be the best. Too many of these ghosts have been identified as the spirits of former human beings for all of these reports to be demons. Some of these ghostly encounters have even proved helpful to those involved, which strongly disproves the theory that all these reports are that of demons.

I have studied this subject for decades and firmly believe that there is some sort of intermediate state after death, at least for some people. Also, the tradition of Christians praying for the souls of the dead goes back a long way in Church history. Based upon this fact alone, I do not know how you can so swiftly disregard the practice. Again, I am absolutely not in favor of Masses for the dead. I am only recommending individual prayers.

Satan is a master at deceit. I prefer to believe in God and His word rather than a bunch of celebrities who get paid for their "stories".