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prayers during liturgy

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by PittBullMom, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. PittBullMom

    PittBullMom Eastern Orthodox Catechumen

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    Are they ancient greek? If I learned the language would I be able to finally understand what's being said?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  2. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Ours are in English. Are you in a Greek parish? If so, could you get a bilingual service book? Often the books have the priest’s prayers as well.
     
  3. PittBullMom

    PittBullMom Eastern Orthodox Catechumen

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    its mostly in Greek. There is some English. I really like the Greek actually. I want to learn the language if it helps that's why I asked if it was ancient Greek or modern.
     
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  4. PittBullMom

    PittBullMom Eastern Orthodox Catechumen

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    they also have bilingual book with transliteration, but its hard to consentrate or absorb it all simultaneously
     
  5. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Ah ok. As someone who loves to learn languages, I still think bilingual books will help with learning it. That’s what I do with some Slavonic prayers (so I can learn the songs that I hear when visiting some other churches / listening to choral music, etc.).

    As far as ancient vs modern...I’ll leave that to our fellow posters :)
     
  6. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Yea, I mean more reviewing it outside of church. You can pick up the structure of the language, and the context, especially once you learn some of the basics.
     
  7. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I understand everything in the Liturgy when it's done in Greek.

    I used the bilingual book, so I learned the Liturgy in English. I started studying Greek. Once you know enough words (really not as many as you'd think) ... you know what's being said. I know many of the "little" words too, but concentrating on words like ...

    God, Jesus Christ, mercy, Church, Holy, forgive, good, soul, body, salvation, man, Theotokos, Angel, peace, kingdom, believe, baptize, Resurrection, death, life ...

    You get the idea?

    Within 6 months I knew what was being prayed during the Litanies. I only used the book during Liturgy for a short time. If you hear it sometimes in English, that's important. If they never do it in English in your parish, I'd find one online and listen at least a few times a month.

    But yes, you can definitely learn to understand what's being prayed even before you can understand it all. The real thrill for me was when I started understanding a good bit of the Epistle reading in Greek, but that does not always happen, by a long shot.

    The repeated stuff isn't hard to learn though. I'd suggest getting the important words in the Creed too.
     
  8. PittBullMom

    PittBullMom Eastern Orthodox Catechumen

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    I wish I was that good, I've been reading the book during service and listening to english versions for four months and I picked up three words. Besides that liturgy isn't the only service. I sat through a 2 hour vespers in 100% Greek. So...is it ancient Greek they're using or modern?
     
  9. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    It's Ancient Greek. I suppose I may have a slight advantage that I was in the sciences, and also taught Greek and Latin roots to my daughter, but honestly there's not much overlap. I think man, cosmos, and light are about it.

    Have you worked on words independent of the whole block of text? Do you ever get to hear it in English so you're familiar at least with what's being prayed? I think having the Liturgy already in your mind is a huge help.
     
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  10. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 auto-correct iPhone survivor

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    My vote is for Slavonic. Best liturgical language EVER! The Dostoyno Yest still makes me tear up, it's so lovely. The language is gorgeous in a liturgical setting. I like Greek well enough, but I'll take Slavonic any day! And I just went to Greece! :sorry:
     
  11. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As your fellow catechumen, I want to suggest what @All4Christ said - maybe try actually studying Greek. May seem overwhelming at first, but may really help you to get oriented. Most people don't learn that well just by trying to "soak it up".
     
  12. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member

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    Our parish offers classes in Greek (I signed up and have taken 4 classes so far).
    Maybe your parish does also?

    The service is in the ancient Greek (one of the first things mentioned in our class) but understanding the modern Greek will help with the ancient.

    I picked up on many of the words in the same way mentioned earlier.. my signature line being one of the first things I learned after "Kyrie Eleison."
     
  13. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    since it's the same Liturgy, if you understand it in English, you will get it in Greek even if you don't know the Greek all that well.
     
  14. Anhelyna

    Anhelyna Handmaid of God Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Here's a slightly different viewpoint.

    The Liturgical language used in my previous Parish was Ukrainian ! I was a non-speaker BUT over several years [ 10 !!] learned to read the prayers and litanies etc in Ukrainian - but not in transliteration - I did actually read them in cyrillic.

    It surprised a few folk to find I wasn't a speaker but could sing virtually the whole Liturgy in Ukrainian - I even acted as a Chanter at times - using Ukrainian. Reading the Epistle was a totally different , if you would excuse the expression , kettle of fish. If reading aloud I was slow , but with practice I could manage and again if I had to do it [ Old Testament Lessons on Great and Holy Saturday ] I could.

    I used a bilingual copy of Liturgy - on the same page with everything lined up so it matched.

    We had a young boy who one day admitted he didn't understand the prayers of the Liturgy - he was Ukrainian background - single parent family. I asked him if he'd like a bi-lingual copy so he could see what the prayers were in both languages. His Mom reluctantly agreed but I was told she wanted him to use Ukrainian - my comment was 'that's fine but he has to know and understand what he's saying'. He still doesn't :(

    When I moved to my present Community - it's English usage [ except for things like the Creed and Our Father ] I'm told the grin on my face as I heard the priest's own prayers in English for the first time, was a joy to behold.

    For me now it's an utter joy using English - I'm really praying the Liturgy !

    This morning we had the Lord's Prayer in English , Slavonic, Greek, Romanian and Dutch - yes - we are a very mixed bunch as regards language
     
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  15. RobNJ

    RobNJ CF Olde Pharte

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    Throwing a SMALL bit of language from somebody ELSE'S "old country" is... acceptable. I think the Liturgy is far to important to be wasting time and effort on trying to translate, in real time.
     
  16. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Our parish is mostly immigrants, at least slightly more than half anyway. And a few don't speak any English at all, so what ends up happening in practice is that the Liturgy is half English and half Greek in any given week - just which half tends to alternate.

    The only exception is that the homily and Gospel are always in English. And a few of the hymns are almost always in Greek.

    I know the entire 7-8 minutes of the Great Doxology in Greek, and I've learned enough that I understand most of it. But I've heard it so infrequently in English that I can't actually sing in English.

    Sometimes I'm totally lost in the fellowship hall though as the older folks frequently speak Greek. And depending on the subject, I usually just pick out words here and there.
     
  17. PittBullMom

    PittBullMom Eastern Orthodox Catechumen

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    I might have to start visiting another parish. There is one close that is in all English. The priest actually said he suggested it to another catechumin and they came back and stayed at his church. It might help. It sounds absolutely beautiful but I wander in thought sometimes because I'm not fully engaged. There are songs sung that is not in the book. Thats where I really get lost.
     
  18. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Ah, yes the singing.

    I'm not sure how various parishes do it. In our case, we typically (almost every week) sing all of the same songs during the Divine Liturgy except one, which varies. We sometimes vary some of the others.

    But ... they may be sung in different tones, or by choral arrangement, etc, so they don't always sound the same. ;)

    A CF poster years ago suggested I join the choir, saying I would learn a lot quickly, and he was right.

    But if you don't want to do that, why don't you ask the choir director, chanter, etc. about the hymns? Maybe they can give you copies that show Greek and English, and tell you the order and general outline, to help you out? Let them know why you are asking. I tried to ask that question and was told it wasn't possible, but that was because the folks in music are concentrating on tones, etc, which constantly vary. As I learned after I'd been in the choir for a month or so, the actual words of the hymns are very simple to outline and nearly always repeated.
     
  19. PittBullMom

    PittBullMom Eastern Orthodox Catechumen

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    We don't have a choir. Just one guy sings, sometimes two but usually just the one guy. I'm almost positive everything he has is in Greek lol
     
  20. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I might be able to get copies for you, or very possibly they are available online.

    I'd rather have more input, but when I have visited different Greek parishes, in my own archdiocese or another, the songs were still the same ones in the same order. There will be one that is for the Church itself though, I think.

    The priest should know what is used. Can you ask him?

    I'd try to list them, but we have 20 usually, and I'd possibly forget some. And it could be that your parish uses some alternate. I'm not an expert on what goes on in other places, I only know that when I visit, the singing is still about 90% the same as we do.
     
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