Prayer - Is More Better?

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks Carl. You seem to have a very Democratic view of God's will.

So you're a "yes". That's one "yes", one "no", and two imponderables.

• If more is better, is twenty better than ten?
• If I have no-one to support my prayer are my chances of receiving God's help reduced compared to someone with support?

OB

Actually it is the agreement in prayer that is the essential element although numbers helps... impossible to quantify of course.

 

[Occams Barber]

I did answer, by explaining that there is an error in the thinking about prayer. It is the same way as when you address a Flat Earth argument - more often than not, a conceptual issue causes the 'problem' the flat earther supposedly sees in the scientific consensus.

I am aware that prayer is a communication and that the purpose of prayer can cover a range of things like worship, confession, thanks, petitioning or intercession on behalf of another.

I asked a direct question about prayers which ask for something and intercessional prayers in support.

The question was simple:

Do more people praying for the same thing make it more likely that God will intercede?

You chose to play the imponderable card which suggests to me that you didn't really have an answer.

OB

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks (I think)

By now Carl, you should know me well enough to realise that drowning me in Bible quotes ain't gonna work even if you are a New Zealander.

OB

What exactly does 'aint gunna work' mean ??

What do you think I am trying to do?

You ask a question, I give an answer - that's it...

 

[Occams Barber]

What exactly does 'aint gunna work' mean ??

What do you think I am trying to do?

You ask a question, I give an answer - that's it...

OK Carl

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

I am aware that prayer is a communication and that the purpose of prayer can cover a range of things like worship, confession, thanks, petitioning or intercession on behalf of another.

I asked a direct question about prayers which ask for something and intercessional prayers in support.

My apologies, but it doesn't seem that way. What you imply sounds more like a magic rite than prayer.

You chose to play the imponderable card which suggests to me that you didn't really have an answer.

Where did I do that? I pointed out that the purpose of prayer is not to just get something done. If that is why you are praying, then what you are praying to, might just as well be the Golden Calf - God in name only, but an idol of your own creation. Besides, why is not knowing not a sufficient answer, if it is impossible to determine? If the prayer falls within Providence, God's Will will be done. Have you ever read the book of Job?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Prayer – Is More Better?

A common Christian practice is to pray to God seeking some form of assistance or support.

It’s also normal for Christians to ask other Christians to pray for God’s intercession on their behalf or on behalf of another person or cause. Christian Forums even has a specific Forum; the Prayer Wall; set aside for this purpose.

Looked at from the point of view of the original supplicant, I can understand that supporting prayers, from other Christians, would be a source of comfort and help promote a sense of Christian community.

Where I’m confused is whether or not additional prayers increase the likelihood that God will intercede.

Do more people praying for the same thing make it more likely that God will intercede?​

If the answer is ’No’ then supporting prayer would appear to be unnecessary from God’s point of view.

If the answer is ‘Yes’ then it raises the question of why God is more likely to respond to multiple prayers in support of one person’s request. If an all-knowing God understands the reason for a single supplicant’s prayer why would 10 supporting prayers make a difference?

OB

The bible tells us that:

Jas 5:14-18 Is anyone among you ill? let him send for the rulers of the church; and let them say prayers over him, putting oil on him in the name of the Lord. And by the prayer of faith the man who is ill will be made well, and he will be lifted up by the Lord, and for any sin which he has done he will have forgiveness. So then, make a statement of your sins to one another, and say prayers for one another so that you may be made well. The prayer of a good man is full of power in its working. Elijah was a man of flesh and blood as we are, and he made a strong prayer that there might be no rain; and there was no rain on the earth for three years and six months. And he made another prayer, and the heaven sent down rain and the earth gave her fruit.

The bible tells us that the prayer of a "good man", one who obeys God, is powerful and effective. The scripture above also encourages us to seek prayer from the church, and it's leaders. The following is a true event off the website I list below (it is my website by the way). But don't take my word for it, if you are sick in any way, or have a friend who is I am happy to pray for Jesus to act on their behalf and bring healing.

I work as a computer programmer and have a long term client, whom I see more as a friend. While working on His website he brought up the fact that his daughter was very ill, she had developed Ulcerative Colitis, and had extreme pain and bleeding. He mentioned that doctors had told him it had no cure, and she would be on harsh medications to treat its symptoms for life. The father was saddened for his daughter, for he loved her. I having seen God heal in the past asked if he would mind if we could pray for her. He said he would appreciate it. So I set about to pray, to God for his daughter. That Sunday I also put a prayer request in the churches @SCFcentral prayer box. A month or so passed, and I received a work related call from the father. He ended the call by telling me, he did not know everything about God and healing, but his daughter was now well. So well that they were able to take the medications they were using right down. He thanked us for the prayer, and was confident that his daughter would stay well.

I have posted a link below that has some common questions with answers regarding prayer Divine Healing | Everybody Matters Ministry

 

[Occams Barber]

My apologies, but it doesn't seem that way. What you imply sounds more like a magic rite than prayer.

Believe it or not, I am able to put aside my own views and treat a topic on its own merits. It's something I often need to do when talking on this Forum. I made no judgements about the veracity or otherwise of prayer. Again - I asked a simple question "Is more better?"

Where did I do that? I pointed out that the purpose of prayer is not to just get something done. If that is why you are praying, then what you are praying to, might just as well be the Golden Calf - God in name only, but an idol of your own creation. Besides, why is not knowing not a sufficient answer, if it is impossible to determine? If the prayer falls within Providence, God's Will will be done. Have you ever read the book of Job?

As I said above - prayers can have a variety of purposes including asking for things or requesting intercession on behalf of an other. You may not like it, but Christians do ask their God for things. I suspect most of them would not characterise it the way you do. Adding 'thy will be done' is polite but doesn't make it less of an ask. I suspect you're in an is/ought bind with this one. Let me be blunt. I judge Christians on what they do - not what they ought to do.

So:
Is more better?

OB

 

[FutureAndAHope]

So:
Is more better?

Yes.

1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

Mat 18:19-20 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Occams Barber]

The bible tells us that:

Jas 5:14-18 Is anyone among you ill? let him send for the rulers of the church; and let them say prayers over him, putting oil on him in the name of the Lord. And by the prayer of faith the man who is ill will be made well, and he will be lifted up by the Lord, and for any sin which he has done he will have forgiveness. So then, make a statement of your sins to one another, and say prayers for one another so that you may be made well. The prayer of a good man is full of power in its working. Elijah was a man of flesh and blood as we are, and he made a strong prayer that there might be no rain; and there was no rain on the earth for three years and six months. And he made another prayer, and the heaven sent down rain and the earth gave her fruit.

The bible tells us that the prayer of a "good man", one who obeys God, is powerful and effective. The scripture above also encourages us to seek prayer from the church, and it's leaders. The following is a true event off the website I list below (it is my website by the way). But don't take my word for it, if you are sick in any way, or have a friend who is I am happy to pray for Jesus to act on their behalf and bring healing.

I work as a computer programmer and have a long term client, whom I see more as a friend. While working on His website he brought up the fact that his daughter was very ill, she had developed Ulcerative Colitis, and had extreme pain and bleeding. He mentioned that doctors had told him it had no cure, and she would be on harsh medications to treat its symptoms for life. The father was saddened for his daughter, for he loved her. I having seen God heal in the past asked if he would mind if we could pray for her. He said he would appreciate it. So I set about to pray, to God for his daughter. That Sunday I also put a prayer request in the churches @SCFcentral prayer box. A month or so passed, and I received a work related call from the father. He ended the call by telling me, he did not know everything about God and healing, but his daughter was now well. So well that they were able to take the medications they were using right down. He thanked us for the prayer, and was confident that his daughter would stay well.

I have posted a link below that has some common questions with answers regarding prayer Divine Healing | Everybody Matters Ministry

Thank you. I'm trying to peer through the mixture of Biblical and anecdotal information you've given me. I think you're saying that more people praying is better than one person praying but I'm not sure.

Let me ask you a direct question:

1. Imagine you are praying alone for something like, say, the recovery of a loved one.

2. Imagine you are praying for the same recovery but other people are also praying in support.

Which situation, 1 or 2, is more likely to result in God's intercession?

OB

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Thank you. I'm trying to peer through the mixture of Biblical and anecdotal information you've given me. I think you're saying that more people praying is better than one person praying but I'm not sure.

Let me ask you a direct question:

1. Imagine you are praying alone for something like, say, the recovery of a loved one.

2. Imagine you are praying for the same recovery but other people are also praying in support.

Which situation, 1 or 2, is more likely to result in God's intercession?

OB

2. when more people pray there is less room for personal pride to get in the way.

 

[Occams Barber]

2. when more people pray there is less room for personal pride to get in the way.

Then you are assuming God's judgement will be based on your attitude (personal pride) rather than the situation facing the loved one.

Imagine a supplicant facing the same situation but lacking prayer support ; do you assume the object of prayer is less deserving?

OB

 

[paul1149]

First of all, prayer can involve more than supplication. There is adoration, contrition, thanksgiving also. There is a time to stop supplicating over an issue and to start thanking God for what He's doing or about to do or has done. James says the prayer of faith saves.

As to corporate prayer, it can be singularly effective. God has placed each of us as members of the corporate Body of Christ, and each member contributes uniquely to the whole. For starters, we all have blind spots, and praying with the brothers can shine light in vital areas we were overlooking. Then there's the encouragement aspect, the faith-building aspect, of praying in unity, which is invaluable. Some prayer challenges are at the corporate level - say, the state of the nation - and the most comprehensive solution will rightly be found at that level as well.

All that said, Jonathan tells his armor bearer that the Lord can save through many or through few, and the two of them go on to route an enemy company. So we should never think that our prayers are ineffective simply because we're praying alone or only with family. The Lord hears and honors all sincere prayer of faith.

 

[Occams Barber]

First of all, prayer can involve more than supplication. There is adoration, contrition, thanksgiving also. There is a time to stop supplicating over an issue and to start thanking God for what He's doing or about to do or has done. James says the prayer of faith saves.

See my post #22. I'm not arguing that there is a range of purposes for prayer. I'm talking specifically about petitional (asking for...) prayer and prayers in support.

As to corporate prayer, it can be singularly effective. God has placed each of us as members of the corporate Body of Christ, and each member contributes uniquely to the whole. For starters, we all have blind spots, and praying with the brothers can shine light in vital areas we were overlooking. Then there's the encouragement aspect, the faith-building aspect, of praying in unity, which is invaluable. Some prayer challenges are at the corporate level - say, the state of the nation - and the most comprehensive solution will rightly be found at that level as well.

Let me repeat the question I put to @FutureAndAHope :

Let me ask you a direct question:

1. Imagine you are praying alone for something like, say, the recovery of a loved one.

2. Imagine you are praying for the same recovery but other people are also praying in support.

Which situation, 1 or 2, is more likely to result in God's intercession?​

In the OP I acknowledged the value of corporate prayer in creating Christian solidarity. This thread is about God's response to prayer not the effect of prayer on believers.

All that said, Jonathan tells his armor bearer that the Lord can save through many or through few, and the two of them go on to route an enemy company. So we should never think that our prayers are ineffective simply because we're praying alone or only with family. The Lord hears and honors all sincere prayer of faith.

I am asking about the relative effectiveness of group prayer vs the prayer of an individual.

Is more (prayer) better?​

OB

​

 

[Occams Barber]

Actually it is the agreement in prayer that is the essential element although numbers helps... impossible to quantify of course.

So is that 'yes', 'no', 'maybe' or "I don't have a clue",
OB

 

[fwGod]

Prayer – Is More Better?

A common Christian practice is to pray to God seeking some form of assistance or support.

It’s also normal for Christians to ask other Christians to pray for God’s intercession on their behalf or on behalf of another person or cause. Christian Forums even has a specific Forum; the Prayer Wall; set aside for this purpose.

Looked at from the point of view of the original supplicant, I can understand that supporting prayers, from other Christians, would be a source of comfort and help promote a sense of Christian community.

Where I’m confused is whether or not additional prayers increase the likelihood that God will intercede.

Do more people praying for the same thing make it more likely that God will intercede?​

If the answer is ’No’ then supporting prayer would appear to be unnecessary from God’s point of view.

If the answer is ‘Yes’ then it raises the question of why God is more likely to respond to multiple prayers in support of one person’s request. If an all-knowing God understands the reason for a single supplicant’s prayer why would 10 supporting prayers make a difference?

OB

The matter is not to be decided based upon God being all knowing. It's about the rules and effect of prayer. Yes, there are rules for prayer.

Supportive prayer is communal, it's Christians joining together to petition God to answer with help and support. The amount of prayers do matter. None are unnecessary. Like voting. Voting matters. Everyone voting matters.

God said, "If My people.." God is calling for and expects all to participate.

"..who are called by My name would humble themselves and pray (intercession in particular) and seek My face, I shall hear from heaven and heal your land." 2 Chronicles 7:14. It's said that the Prophet Esra wrote that book.

There's nothing in the Bible that limits prayers to be made to just one person. God expects all believers to know how to pray, and to pray according to knowing how.
On the other hand, one person praying for a whole nation can also work. See Daniel 9:3. He was a prophet anointed of God so his prayer alone would have the weight of many pray-ers.

 

[Occams Barber]

It's not about an all knowing God. It's about the rules and effect of prayer. Yes, there are rules for prayer.

Supportive prayer is communal, it's Christians joining together to petition God to answer with help and support. The amount of prayers do matter. None are unnecessary. Like voting. Voting matters. Everyone voting matters.

So the more "Yes" votes I get the more likely it is that God will intervene? Is God incapable of seeing beyond 'votes' to the heart of the matter and acting accordingly?

There's nothing in the Bible that limits prayers to be made to just one person. God expects all believers to know how to pray, and to pray according to knowing how.
On the other hand, one person praying for a whole nation can also work. See Daniel 9:3. He was a prophet anointed of God so his prayer alone would have the weight of many prayerers.

I'm not suggesting that prayers are limited to one person. I am asking if many people praying for something is more likely to convince God. Your comment about Daniel implies that some people have more pull with God than others. Does God base his decisions on the nature of the supplicant or the justice of the cause?

OB

 

[fwGod]

So the more "Yes" votes I get the more likely it is that God will intervene? Is God incapable of seeing beyond 'votes' to the heart of the matter and acting accordingly?

God sees everything about the matter, more than any one person does and most likely more than a large group put together can figure out.

In some cases those who might not know exactly how to pray effectively will ask for others to also pray. That is like the two men kept Moses arms lifted up until the battle was won.

The strong support the weak.

Have you not a family that pulls together in a time of crisis? And how supportive that can get, how comforting?

The people of God are a family and God is our Father. Some in the family have seniority. In heaven it's Jesus. In the earth it's the elders and seasoned prayer warriors.

It all works together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose.

I'm not suggesting that prayers are limited to one person.

I gave that as a for instance in contrast to many praying.

I am asking if many people praying for something is more likely to convince God.

The amount is not the lucky winning ticket. As it didn't have to be with Daniel.

Your comment about Daniel implies that some people have more pull with God than others.

In the old testament, yes. Not everyone was trained to it. Not everyone was called and anointed for it.

Does God base his decisions on the nature of the supplicant or the justice of the cause?

OB

God bases prayer in accordance with His Word revealed in the Bible. People pray according to His will, in the name of Jesus it's His nature at which any pray-er puts forth, not their own merits, plus the Holy Spirit helping the prayers to be effective.

Before you might ask, I'll add that even when it seems that all of the little duckies are in a row.. in some cases, or in many cases for any number of reasons those who pray miss it being effective and the prayer isn't answered as would like to be. It's not at God's end, it's at the pray-ers end. No condemnation for that. Just an incentive to learn more about how to pray more effectively. To learn from the seasoned prayer warriors who have a successful track record of getting desired prayers answered by God.

 

[Occams Barber]

God sees everything about the matter, more than any one person does and most likely more than a large group put together can figure out.

In some cases those who might not know exactly how to pray effectively will ask for others to also pray. That is like the two men kept Moses arms lifted up until the battle was won.

The strong support the weak.

Have you not a family that pulls together in a time of crisis? And how supportive that can get, how comforting?

The people of God are a family and God is our Father. Some in the family have seniority. In heaven it's Jesus. In the earth it's the elders and seasoned prayer warriors.

It all works together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose.
I gave that as a for instance in contrast to many praying.
The amount is not the lucky winning ticket. As it didn't have to be with Daniel.
In the old testament, yes. Not everyone was trained to it. Not everyone was called and anointed for it.
God bases prayer in accordance with His Word revealed in the Bible. People pray according to His will, in the name of Jesus it's His nature at which any pray-er puts forth, not their own merits, plus the Holy Spirit helping the prayers to be effective.

Before you might ask, I'll add that even when it seems that all of the little duckies are in a row.. in some cases, or in many cases for any number of reasons those who pray miss it being effective and the prayer isn't answered as would like to be. It's not at God's end, it's at the pray-ers end. No condemnation for that. Just an incentive to learn more about how to pray more effectively. To learn from the seasoned prayer warriors who have a successful track record of getting desired prayers answered by God.

In summary:

• Yes?
• No?
• Maybe?
• I'm not sure?
• Depends?
• What was the question?

The responses to my initial question in this thread have been pretty ordinary but I'm awarding you with the Worst Answer So Far Award.

I'm still waiting for the first Christian who has the courage to admit he or she has no idea whether bulk prayer is more effective or not.

OB

 

[zippy2006]

So, your answer is "More is better" based on the broad principle that "more" is usually better. Does this broad principle also apply to God?

So clearly you have no ability to give any reason whatsoever to justify why you find the concept "difficult."

Sounds like a "no" vote to me. Within the space of two posts you appear to have done a complete about face.

I was summarizing your apparent argument, hence the final sentence, "Is that right? Hopefully I'm not committing a strawman, but I don't have much to go on."

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Then you are assuming God's judgement will be based on your attitude (personal pride) rather than the situation facing the loved one.

Imagine a supplicant facing the same situation but lacking prayer support ; do you assume the object of prayer is less deserving?

OB

The fact is we need more people who are willing to pray. More people who are willing to believe. Sitting in judgment of God’s intentions will not help any one. One more person willing to trust God is what is needed. Are you willing to trust God? That person without prayer may need your prayer.