Praise to the Man!

[Toms777]

I listen quite often to Christian Radio, and a phrase I picked up on was "read scripture in the light of scripture."
Can not the same be said about our hymnal?

A hymn called "Redeemer of Israel" reffers to Jesus as "our only delight." That should confirm what we have been trying to tell you and close this topic with an assurance that do not worship or equate to diety to Joseph Smith.

Odd that when I say tgha same thing on here, that we need to let scripture interpret itself, it is tyhe Mormons who scream loudest against that approach.

The problem here is that this hymn gives attributes to Joseph Smith which belong only to God and as we discussed that is in alignemnt with mormon doctrine which says that men can become gods.

Where in the Bible does God endorse the doctrine that men can become God or gods?

 

[emerald Dragon]

Hey Toms-answer my question; Where in the bible does it say that the attributes given to Joseph Smith in the hymn, 'Praise to the Man' are soely God's or Christ's? Please do not show me scripture where these attributes are just mentioned to the godhead. I want a verse, or more, that says that those attributes are SOLEY God's. You keep skirting around this question. This forum, I believe cannot continue without this question being answerd, because your whole argument depends on it. If no such scripture exists, your arguments are not valid, only the ramblings of a person who does not think that other righteous people should be honored. If such a scripture exists, then your argument is vaild, and I have been wrong, along with a few others in this forum. Please answer this question.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Wow, that hymn is even more blastfemous than I remember it...yuck.

Grace

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Hey Toms-answer my question; Where in the bible does it say that the attributes given to Joseph Smith in the hymn, 'Praise to the Man' are soely God's or Christ's? Please do not show me scripture where these attributes are just mentioned to the godhead. I want a verse, or more, that says that those attributes are SOLEY God's. You keep skirting around this question. This forum, I believe cannot continue without this question being answerd, because your whole argument depends on it. If no such scripture exists, your arguments are not valid, only the ramblings of a person who does not think that other righteous people should be honored. If such a scripture exists, then your argument is vaild, and I have been wrong, along with a few others in this forum. Please answer this question.

OK, obviously I am not Tom but this question is pretty simple to answer. The bible list many qualities that are Gods, that man does not have and then the Bible goes further and says that there is only EVER been or ever WILL BE one God. So, if God has these qualities that we as humans do not possess and he is the only God EVER (and yes the Bible says that) then it doesn't take a huge amount of common sense to realize that he is the only one who possesses these certain qualities that he alone as God can have.

God Bless-
Grace

 

[Doc T]

OK, obviously I am not Tom but this question is pretty simple to answer. The bible list many qualities that are Gods, that man does not have and then the Bible goes further and says that there is only EVER been or ever WILL BE one God. So, if God has these qualities that we as humans do not possess and he is the only God EVER (and yes the Bible says that) then it doesn't take a huge amount of common sense to realize that he is the only one who possesses these certain qualities that he alone as God can have.

God Bless-
Grace

Doc: I guess you are two for two, for you are neither Toms777 nor did you answer EmeraldDragon's question.


~

 

[MormonFriend]

...then the Bible goes further and says that there is only EVER been or ever WILL BE one God. So, if God has these qualities that we as humans do not possess and he is the only God EVER (and yes the Bible says that) ....
God Bless-
Grace

Common sense tells me that we did not create ourselves, so we always look to the One and only God who did, and created us in a fashion that we can become like him, because we were created in His likeness.

 

[Toms777]

Hey Toms-answer my question; Where in the bible does it say that the attributes given to Joseph Smith in the hymn, 'Praise to the Man' are soely God's or Christ's? Please do not show me scripture where these attributes are just mentioned to the godhead. I want a verse, or more, that says that those attributes are SOLEY God's. You keep skirting around this question. This forum, I believe cannot continue without this question being answerd, because your whole argument depends on it. If no such scripture exists, your arguments are not valid, only the ramblings of a person who does not think that other righteous people should be honored. If such a scripture exists, then your argument is vaild, and I have been wrong, along with a few others in this forum. Please answer this question.

Look back at the start of this entire thread.

Regardless, it does not matter because what is important is that doctrine is established by what the Bible *does say*.

Where is the Bible does it says that men can become God or gods?

 

[Toms777]

Common sense tells me that we did not create ourselves, so we always look to the One and only God who did, and created us in a fashion that we can become like him, because we were created in His likeness.

Mormonism teaches that God did not create anything, but rather that God only re-arranged the matter which was there. If that is the case, who did create it?

The Bible says that the one true God created everything.

Second, your reasoning is faulty. You base it on the premise that God created us to become gods, but that leaves the open question - where in the Bible does it endorse the doctrine that men can become God or gods?

 

[Toms777]

Doc: I guess you are two for two, for you are neither Toms777 nor did you answer EmeraldDragon's question.
~

It was answered at the start by showing that the attributes belong solely to God ferom scripture, unless you claim that men can become God or gods. Iyou do then you have to prove that by validating that claim.

Where in the Bible does it endorse the doctrine that men can become God or gods?

 

[Der Alte]

Common sense tells me that we did not create ourselves, so we always look to the One and only God who did, and created us in a fashion that we can become like him, because we were created in His likeness.

"Common sense" used to tell people that the world was flat, frogs caused warts, and a lot of other fun stuff. God, in the Bible tells us before Himself there was no God, beside Himself there is no God, and after Him there will be no God. He knows not any. LDS says that man can become gods. God says there is not and never will be another god beside Himself.

​

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.​

​

 

[emerald Dragon]

Der Alter-

What you are arguing is valid. But it is not what the LDS Church claims. Those scriptures say that there is no Saviour other than Jesus Christ. We do not claim any other saviour, nor do we claim that we will become one. It says that there is only one God, which is what we acknowledge. We claim to worship God, but that we may become gods (lower-case g verses upper-case g) . We do not claim to have another God, not do we claim to be able to become God. We claim that we can become gods, but still subject to God.

The way I see it, you have to replace 'God' in those verses with 'Heavenly Father'. (the terms being interchangable, as God is Heavenly Father) This will make it less confusing. the verses then say, 'there is no "Heavenly Father" beside me', which is what the LDS Church claims.

We do not claim to have another God, we do not even now claim to have any man to have become a god-no man can become a god until after the Second Comming, the Final Judgement, and the beginning of the Eternities.

If you look at the bible, it says that no other God can exist-but it says nothing about no gods existing. In fact, it actually hints at lesser gods existing. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not claim to have any other Gods besides God. We only worship God,but we claim that men can become gods, but still subject to God.

On other notes-the Church does not say that God just organized the matter-Jesus Created it, under the direction of the Father. This universe did not exist in any way, shape, form, or matter until Christ created witht eh direction of the Father.

And Toms, you have not answered my question. You continue to ignore it. Please answer it. Where in the bible does it say that the attributes mentioned in the hymn are solely God's. I see that He does have these attributes, but not that He has claimed them soley for Himself. Please stop skirting my question and answer it-after 40 pages of dialogue.

Emerald Dragon

 

[happyinhisgrace]

What you are arguing is valid. But it is not what the LDS Church claims. Those scriptures say that there is no Saviour other than Jesus Christ.

Actually one of the verses he posted talked of God as savior, the rest just said God. I think that misquoting posts by others and taking posts out of context in this form is against forum rules.

God Bless-
Grace

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Actually one of the verses he posted talked of God as savior, the rest just said God. I think that misquoting posts by others and taking posts out of context in this form is against forum rules.

I stand corrected...2 of them mention the savior, not just one.

God Bless-Grace

 

[emerald Dragon]

I was not trying to discredit the previous poster, so I believe that I am still within forum rules, sepecially as I did not use his quote, but the scripture, and I interpreted them. we do not claim to be able to become God, or anywhere near the power and majesty of God. He will always remain God, we will always reamin His children and His subjects. We claim to have only ONE God, and only ONE Christ. We claim no others, we do not claim that any person can become anywhere near to what they are.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I was not trying to discredit the previous poster, so I believe that I am still within forum rules, sepecially as I did not use his quote, but the scripture, and I interpreted them. we do not claim to be able to become God, or anywhere near the power and majesty of God. He will always remain God, we will always reamin His children and His subjects. We claim to have only ONE God, and only ONE Christ. We claim no others, we do not claim that any person can become anywhere near to what they are.

I don't recall reading any posts that said that LDS claim to become God the Father but rather that they claim to be able to become gods themselves someday through progression, either way...it still isn't Biblical. God himself said in his holy word that he was, is, and will be the only God, ever!

God Bless-
Grace

 

[Godzman]

Here is a Hymn from the Mormon Church Hymnal, written about Joseph Smith. Does anyone have any thoughts or comment about what this hymn says about Joseph Smith?

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Chorus: Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

being man focused is not being Christcentric

 

[Toms777]

I was not trying to discredit the previous poster, so I believe that I am still within forum rules, sepecially as I did not use his quote, but the scripture, and I interpreted them. we do not claim to be able to become God, or anywhere near the power and majesty of God. He will always remain God, we will always reamin His children and His subjects. We claim to have only ONE God, and only ONE Christ. We claim no others, we do not claim that any person can become anywhere near to what they are.

One of the basic doctrines of the Mormon church is deification of man. I can quote several presidents of the CoJCoLDS, BoA, D&C and have confirmed with a CoJCoLDS Bishop.

Maybe you are not aware of this teaching, but if not, if I were you, I would check this out immediately. If you disagree with deification of man, you are in the wrong religion!

 

[arizona_sunshine]

wow, i am impressed how strong this thread continues!

tom777, emerald dragon is well aware of the belief in eternal progression. his point is that we will never grow beyond the power of God. even as we progress, he continues to progress, continues to be our Heavenly Father, continues to be the God we worship and from whom we learn.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

wow, i am impressed how strong this thread continues!

tom777, emerald dragon is well aware of the belief in eternal progression. his point is that we will never grow beyond the power of God. even as we progress, he continues to progress, continues to be our Heavenly Father, continues to be the God we worship and from whom we learn.

Makes me so grateful that I worship a God who always has been and always will be perfect in everyway without the "need" of progression. The
God I believe in was always God and always perfect, always....completely perfect in everyway. I know I sure wouldn't want to put my life and trust in a God who hadn't yet reach his "full potential".

God Bless-
Grace

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Makes me so grateful that I worship a God who always has been and always will be perfect in everyway without the "need" of progression. The
God I believe in was always God and always perfect, always....completely perfect in everyway. I know I sure wouldn't want to put my life and trust in a God who hadn't yet reach his "full potential".

Progression: continuous creation, continuous increase

if He'd reached His full potential why would He create the earth and those that are in it? for His entertainment? i have a hard time trivializing His work in that way.