PP ties

[Hank77]

It doesn't much matter to me how PP disposes of human waste.

Michie has this correct. When there is money made the incentive is to push the abortions.

Nobody is making any money on any of this.

This company buys fetal body parts from Planned Parenthood. Take a look at what they are selling, fetal liver cells, bone marrow, and not for a couple hundred dollars but some in the thousands.
http://stemexpress.com/product-category/fetal-liver/

This is all being done above board and with everyone involved knowledge and consent.

That's not true either. There are women who have publicly stated that they were never asked or were told that if they didn't sign off on the consent, PP would not give them the abortion.

Even the saintly Dr Ben Carson has used fetal tissue for his research.

You really need to prove that one. He is a surgeon, not a researcher.

Are you asking my permission? Check your local laws. I've had surgeries and I'm glad that the Med students that eventually became Surgeons had cadavers to practice on.

I agree with this. There is a big difference between donated bodies to science or transplants.

I think the fear people have about these remains is that they are profitable which certainly does not give people that profit off these remains any incentive to encourage anything else but abortion. It makes the industry even more profitable than it already is.

You hit the nail on the head. See my link to Stem Express above.

 

[Hank77]

Do we have evidence that there is profit off the sale of these children's remains?

http://stemexpress.com/product-category/fetal-liver/

 

[Hank77]

This company and others buy from Planned Parenthood and then sell......

STEM EXPRESS Bone Marrow Cells as high as over $11,000, Fetal Liver Cells as high as $24,000
http://stemexpress.com/product-category/fetal-liver/
http://stemexpress.com/product-category/bone-marrow/

Do they then donate back to Planned Parenthood to keep their supply coming???

 

[PapaZoom]

I don't think they are. Honestly, I don't. Do you have t documentation otherwise ?



Well, common sense.

All this tissue (we're not talking about "organs" here, I mean, seriously, have you seen the size of a 10 -15 week old fetus ? ) is going to do research.

Researchers typically work together to get samples and tissues there isn't really a market for it where people are buying it off the shelf.

Second, again we're talking about tissue, not organs, organ from a fetus are useless, what they are really looking of is stem cells and such. The number quoted are 30-100 dollars for these tissues.

30 to 100 dollar is about what I would think it would cost to handle and ship said tissues.

And no matter how you think about it it's certainly not big money. Especially since not all women give permission for the tissue to be used in research.

So, I just don't see how anyone is making any money off any of this.

It's all legal, it's all above board and it's all evidently common knowledge because a con man from some shady organisation got a Planned Parenthood doctor to talk about it openly in a over lunch.

And, then there's the federal government investigation which found no wrong doing.

So, if one which to drop the breathless excitement over this and look at it dispassionately I think the one would come the conclusion that most of this is, in fact, a lot of people jumping to a lot of unsupported conclusions.

This from CNN:

The NFL is gearing up for the Super Bowl this Sunday and the league is projected to make a record profit. That's bringing to light a little-known secret. The NFL league office is considered, by the IRS, a non-profit organization.

Being designated a non-profit by the IRS doesn't mean you don't make money. And PP makes a lot of it.

The investigations for PP are still ongoing and PP isn't out of the woods yet. There are a lot of unanswered questions that we all should be asking.

 

[MikeK]

http://stemexpress.com/product-category/fetal-liver/

This is not evidence of profit. Do you have evidence that PP profits off the same of organs or cadavers?

 

[Hank77]

This is not evidence of profit. Do you have evidence that PP profits off the same of organs or cadavers?

I don't think they directly profit from the transaction, at least I haven't seen evidence for it.
"Ginde concludes that receiving payment on a per organ removal basis will be most beneficial: “I think a per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.”"

But one hand washes the other, in politics and business, and this is obviously Big business.
"And at the end of the day they just decided right now, it's just to touchy an issue for us to be a official middleman."
http://liveactionnews.org/new-undercover-video-shows-planned-parenthood-dissecting-aborted-baby/

Places like Stem Express are the official middlemen, right now.

It has been brought to light that one of the Colorado PP clinics failed to report the rape of a minor. Breaking state laws.
A couple years ago it was prostitution including minors, at clinics in other states.

 

[Michie]

I just have to say there are Christians both democrat and republican, independent, etc. but let's face it, politics are secular and there is no foolproof politics that we can vote for that lines up with every aspect of our faith. It is impossible. But we cannot make excuses for evil even if they do good in other areas. Which I think is way overblown when it comes to pp. I think they are a cold calculating business that cares more about the bottom line than needy, sick women and children.

I have no idea the point you're trying to make. Because there is no point to make. They are charging women money to kill their baby, then they turn around and make more money off the dead babies remains and now the people they sold it to are selling it and making even more money. But those free pap smears are still good, right? Human remains are not a commodity. Here we go again with the way you take a very evil act and try to split up in pieces and separate what's evil, what's good and what of no consequence. Planned Parenthood the totality of who and what they are is evil in of itself, evil.

Since you like to tell people about themselves, I'm going to tell you about yourself. You love the poor so much and want to call out people on giving to the poor, well plan parenthood doesn't even so much as give these women a dime off of what they sell their dead babies for. Oh, wait, they give out free mammograms. Many of these woman abort the babies because they're poor and the liberals who claim they support poor women don't see the problem with PP using poor women so they can make billions of their dead babies. I wish liberals would get off of their pseudo love they have for the poor.

Jesus said, Mike, a good tree can not produce evil fruit. There is nothing good about PP. and because you're a political democrat you have to stop looking for good where there isn't any just so you can reconcile your own conscious.

No, a person can not be democrat and Catholic. No matter how slick you word things. fantine... I mean Mike.

 

[pdudgeon]

before death or after death--they are still individual persons created by the will of God.

one of the reasons that people choose not to see this is because they instinctively realize that the justification for not
recognizing the humanity of a dead fetus could be applied to them as well.
They are a person created by God, and so is the dead fetus.
It would therefore follow that the same justification for the treatment of a dead fetus
could also be applied to them when they die.

No one deliberately wants to be cast aside like dead tissue.
And no one should be.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So, your suggestion is that the people of the media should NOT donate to the charities of their cholce?

Here's the problem:

There's no coverage because there's no story

Who determines if there's no story? The person for whom the story would create a disadvantage? What's important is that it be reported. Let the public decide if there's no story here, or the courts.

and the only controversy has to do with the outfit that surreptitiously recorded to videos.
And, seriously, those guys should be counting there blessings that one on is looking at them.

In this day and age of people videoing anything and everything with a cell phone, why?

Look, whether you like it or not:

> Nobody is making any money on any of this.
> No laws are being broken
> This is all being done above board and with everyone involved knowledge and consent.
and
>Everybody does it because researches need the tissue.

To the first item, you don't know this. To the second, there are laws being broken regarding how a particular abortion is being done. It's even mentioned in the videos. To the third, why is there such outrage, if it's all above board? To the fourth, there's been no evidence that fetal tissue research yields anything but cancer.

Even the saintly Dr Ben Carson has used fetal tissue for his research.

Saint or not, this is incorrect information.

You have to get over this and move on because you'll never get anywhere with the whole abortion thing trying to make this dog hunt.

sorry about that.

Are you folks trying to play the Jedi mind trick? "Nothing to see here...move along."

 

[Root of Jesse]

I just have to say there are Christians both democrat and republican, independent, etc. but let's face it, politics are secular and there is no foolproof politics that we can vote for that lines up with every aspect of our faith. It is impossible. But we cannot make excuses for evil even if they do good in other areas. Which I think is way overblown when it comes to pp. I think they are a cold calculating business that cares more about the bottom line than needy, sick women and children.

Which is why, though I'm registered one way, I don't vote just one way. I do appreciate honesty, so if you're a Democrat, and vehemently pro-life, I can give you thumbs up, while if you're a Republican and pro-choice, I can thumb you down.

 

[frenchdefense]

Who determines if there's no story? The person for whom the story would create a disadvantage? What's important is that it be reported. Let the public decide if there's no story here, or the courts.
In this day and age of people videoing anything and everything with a cell phone, why?
To the first item, you don't know this. To the second, there are laws being broken regarding how a particular abortion is being done. It's even mentioned in the videos. To the third, why is there such outrage, if it's all above board? To the fourth, there's been no evidence that fetal tissue research yields anything but cancer.
Saint or not, this is incorrect information.

Are you folks trying to play the Jedi mind trick? "Nothing to see here...move along."

I'm only taking on the one of these that is so provably false that it puts all your observations into doubt because it shows you either hopelessly ill informed or hopelessly deluded:

Ben Carson has actually admitted to using fetal tissue for abortions in his research. There was a press conference and everything.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ed-defense-of-his-research-with-fetal-tissue/

Ben Carson doesn't deny using fetal tissue from aborted fetuses for medical research in the early 1990s. But the way in which the former Johns Hopkins neurosurgeon received and used the tissue is very different from how Planned Parenthood obtains and sells its fetal tissue, he claims.

News of Carson's medical research with fetal tissue came to light Wednesday night when a fellow doctor published details of Carson's 1992 research using fetal tissue on her blog. The issue is timely, given Republicans — including Carson — have denounced Planned Parenthood after secretly records video showed officials talking about procurement of fetal tissues.

 

[MikeK]

before death or after death--they are still individual persons created by the will of God.

one of the reasons that people choose not to see this is because they instinctively realize that the justification for not
recognizing the humanity of a dead fetus could be applied to them as well.
They are a person created by God, and so is the dead fetus.
It would therefore follow that the same justification for the treatment of a dead fetus
could also be applied to them when they die.

No one deliberately wants to be cast aside like dead tissue.
And no one should be.

I have stated on several ocasions that the dead deserve to be treated with respect, but that I wish many times more that they were never aborted in the first place. What specifically about that position donyou object to? I suspect that most here agree with it wholeheartedly but are threatened by what I am - an honest man who sticks to issues and doesn't worship Earthly political movements, parties or persons.

 

[mark46]

When did I ever say that it was illegal behavior?

It was dudgeon who made that claim in post #10.

 

[pdudgeon]

I have stated on several ocasions that the dead deserve to be treated with respect, but that I wish many times more that they were never aborted in the first place. What specifically about that position donyou object to? I suspect that most here agree with it wholeheartedly but are threatened by what I am - an honest man who sticks to issues and doesn't worship Earthly political movements, parties or persons.

I was speaking about PP, the people who work there, and the people who support PP.
the thread is about PP and it's ties to news agencies and to the middlemen who buy the parts
of aborted babies for resale.
just a reminder.

 

[pdudgeon]

It was dudgeon who made that claim in post #10.

answered by MoonlessNight in Post #29 (thanks!)

 

[MissRowy]

MOD HAT ON

THIS THREAD HAS UNDERGONE A CLEAN UP
PLEASE REFRAIN FROM OFF TOPIC POSTS AND ABIDE BY THE SITEWIDE RULES
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[David4223]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has undergone a cleanup. Please review the CF rules before posting again.

Remember to address the content of someone's post -- and not attack the poster themselves.

Please treat others how you would like to be treated -- with respect and courtesy.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Hank77]

I just have to say there are Christians both democrat and republican, independent, etc. but let's face it, politics are secular and there is no foolproof politics that we can vote for that lines up with every aspect of our faith. It is impossible. But we cannot make excuses for evil even if they do good in other areas. Which I think is way overblown when it comes to pp. I think they are a cold calculating business that cares more about the bottom line than needy, sick women and children.

When I read the words of PP's founder, Margaret Sanger, I shudder. The woman was a racist, a bigot, and Hitler had nothing over on this woman.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

When I read the words of PP's founder, Margaret Sanger, I shudder. The woman was a racist, a bigot, and Hitler had nothing over on this woman.

Only God knows how many millions or billions of babies were murdered as a result of the world accepting her eugenics ideology. We don't know the number, but we know that it's far greater than the numbers of Jews who were killed during the Holocaust. Margaret Sanger was behind the idea for "The Negro Project" to reduce the number of blacks. And it was served to them under the pretense of "better health" and "family planning."

Here's what the National Black Pro-Life Union said about it:

Margaret Sanger (1879 - 1966) was the founder of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) and the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF). As an activist in the birth-control and population-control movements, she was one of the most influential figures of the twentieth century.

Many questions have been raised concerning her real views on eugenics, race, and human rights, and it is hard to separate the facts from fiction. The information presented here is drawn directly from her writings, with references.

Sanger’s obsession with eugenics and racism was clearly presented in her involvement of planning the First World Population Conference which took place in Geneva in 1926. She was not mentioned on the actual program, but instead worked behind the scenes and initiated the “Negro Project” in 1939.

The objective of the “project” was toinfiltrate the black community by presenting birth control as a health option for women to kill off the black race.Kill them off by limiting the growth of the population by abortion and sterilization.

They knew that some blacks would figure out their sinister plot so it was decided by Sanger to take the plan to the clergy and charismatic members the black community to have them deliver the death message to their congregations.

In a letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble Sanger stated, “We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. And the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

Notice that Sanger said the ministers should be "hired." There are many black ministers today who support abortion--most of them still receive money from Planned Parenthood. Many have sold their souls for "30 pieces of silver."

(Source)

And here's what it says on EWTN's website:

Facts about Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood:

(Though much quoted herein is old, I will show later that Planned
Parenthood today vigorously upholds Sanger's philosophy.)

Margaret Sanger said about her 1939 <Negro Project>, "We do not want
word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and
the minister is the man who can straighten out the idea if it ever
occurs to any of their more rebellious members." [1]

Clarence Gamble, president of the American Eugenics Research
Association, said, "There is a great danger that we will fail because
the Negroes think it a plan for extermination. Hence lets appear to
let the colored run it as we appear to let [the] south do the
conference in Atlanta."[2] Under this policy, Planned Parenthood of
America hired a full-time "Negro Consultant" in 1944.[3]

The entire operation [Sanger's 1939 Negro Project] then was a ruse--a
manipulative attempt to get Blacks to cooperate in their own
elimination.

The project was quite successful. Its genocidal intentions were
carefully camouflaged beneath several layers of condescending
social-service rhetoric and organizational expertise. . . Soon
clinics throughout the South were distributing contraceptives to
Blacks and <Margaret's dream of discouraging "the defective and
diseased elements of humanity' from their 'reckless and irresponsible
swarming and spawning" was at last being fulfilled.>[4]*

(Read more)

Additional source:
The NEGRO PROJECT: Margaret Sanger's EUGENIC Plan for Black America

 

[Hank77]

I'm only taking on the one of these that is so provably false that it puts all your observations into doubt because it shows you either hopelessly ill informed or hopelessly deluded:

Ben Carson has actually admitted to using fetal tissue for abortions in his research. There was a press conference and everything.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ed-defense-of-his-research-with-fetal-tissue/

Thank you for providing the evidence that I requested.
I did some research last night and found the research paper that he and three/four colleagues wrote. It clearly states that they used a 9 wk and 11 wk aborted fetus' in their research.