Pornography

[meebs]

The way I see it, erotica contains significant artistic elements and is about sensuality, while porn is generally crude and is about displaying the sex acts involved.

Call it fancy names if you will and expand the meaning, justify yourself - the way i see it, it's still porn.

(Still there to bring arousal).

 

[Mling]

Call it fancy names if you will and expand the meaning, justify yourself - the way i see it, it's still porn.

(Still there to bring arousal).

I haven't tried to "justify myself" at all. I haven't even discussed whether I like either. I'm just pointing out that there are different approaches to portrayals of sex.

Consider these song lyrics, for example:

But I remember when I moved in you,
The holy dove was moving, too,
And every breath we drew was Hallelujah.

it is undeniably about sex, and, when sung, the tone of that passage is undeniably sensual. But it's really a stretch to consider that "pornographic," despite the fact that it describes sex.

Compare that to

Put your hands down my pants
And I'll bet you feel nuts.
...
Love the kind you clean up with a mop and bucket.
Like the lost catacombs of Egypt, only God knows where we stuck it.

That is also undeniably about sex, but it is just a little different than the first one, isn't it?

 

[Mling]

Mling has an excellent point... I think of the scene from "Big Love" where Nikki accuses Margene of degrading their husband Bill by allowing him to perform oral sex on her. Nikki firmly believed (believes) that such an act of a man on a woman is degrading to the man, and immasculating... Something that obviously Bill and Margene don't feel.

And there are a vareity of sex acts I've also heard labeled degrading, but I think of them (some of them having a home in our sexual routine) and I don't find them degrading in the slightest (even though I'm the supposed subject of the degredation). I'm a consenting adult, so if I consent to doing it, and enjoy it, how could I be degrading myself?

And as a former worker of the retail service industry, specifically the worker of a greenhouse, I really feel the statement of others about how that was more degrading than any sex act I've ever done with any partner I've ever had. Being treated like the icky, dirty, stupid, subserviant worker to a person spending $100 on a friggen tree just made me feel so... Vile. The best comment I heard was from a woman who found out my husband was a pilot... "Oh REALLY... Somebody like YOU could never be married to somebody like that. I mean, he's educated! What are you? You play in dirt all day."

I am amazed at the attitudes of people who believe that people are defined by their income. At a Fourth of July celebration once, my mom was standing in line for a hot dog, and the woman behind her was ranting, loudly, to her husband, "Last year, for the Fourth of July, we went to the Four Seasons and had prime rib. Your daughter wants to go to the Four Seasons, but no, you had to come here, and now we're trapped surrounded by these filthy hobos! Half these people probably sleep here!"

And, for the record. I like people who play in dirt, or straw, clay, iron scale dust, paint...whatever. I think people look best when they are covered in their work or hobbies.

 

[kiwimac]

Pornography is often in the mind of the beholder.

<BTW, I like both songs!>

 

[meebs]

That is also undeniably about sex, but it is just a little different than the first one, isn't it?

Could be just me, i can't tell the difference. Perhaps cos i view sex as just fun but also can be emotional with the right person.

"You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals so let's do it like they do it on the Discovery Channel..."

Ha ha yes cool song

 

[Mling]

Could be just me, i can't tell the difference.

If you imagine the equivalent types of videos, the former would probably have lots of zoom in's on their faces, and the sheets would be strategically draped.

The latter would take place in a gritty industrial scene and would feature, in the immortal words of Dan Savage, "glistening rectal mucus."

And I like both songs, but much prefer Hallelujah. Discovery Channel is the sort of song I listen to and laugh while muttering, "Oh man, that's terrible...but creative."

 

[HazyRigby]

Whats the difference between erotica and porn really?

In porn you have a lot less filler?

 

[The Bellman]

Mling has an excellent point... I think of the scene from "Big Love" where Nikki accuses Margene of degrading their husband Bill by allowing him to perform oral sex on her. Nikki firmly believed (believes) that such an act of a man on a woman is degrading to the man, and immasculating... Something that obviously Bill and Margene don't feel.

Well Nikki's just an idiot. Why Bill ever chose her for wife no. 2 I'll never understand.

 

[Steezie]

I am amazed at the attitudes of people who believe that people are defined by their income. At a Fourth of July celebration once, my mom was standing in line for a hot dog, and the woman behind her was ranting, loudly, to her husband, "Last year, for the Fourth of July, we went to the Four Seasons and had prime rib. Your daughter wants to go to the Four Seasons, but no, you had to come here, and now we're trapped surrounded by these filthy hobos! Half these people probably sleep here!"

And, for the record. I like people who play in dirt, or straw, clay, iron scale dust, paint...whatever. I think people look best when they are covered in their work or hobbies.

My personal favorite was at Home Depot looking through thier welding stuff and some woman grabbed me and asked where the safety glasses were. I told her that I didnt work there but that they were the next aisle over. She replied that I knew alot about the place and that I should work there. I told her that I was a welder and as such I spent a lot of time in the welding section. "Welders? I hear they dont make very much, you should pick a career that makes more money!" I responded that after six months of training (and no certification) I was offered a steady job that had $20 an hour starting pay with full benefits. She got all flustered and did that little valley girl sigh and scuttled off

 

[chaz345]

The way I see it, erotica contains significant artistic elements and is about sensuality, while porn is generally crude and is about displaying the sex acts involved.

Define artistic and define crude.

Actually I don't really care about your definition of those two terms I'm just pointing out that they are, no matter now you slice it, VERY subjective terns.

 

[meebs]

For those whos background colours are not white the plot of whatever those two are talking about has been spoiled

 

[Mling]

Define artistic and define crude.

Actually I don't really care about your definition of those two terms I'm just pointing out that they are, no matter now you slice it, VERY subjective terns.

Yeah, I was thinking that as i wrote it, but didn't want to go off onto a ramble. I define crude as having no other purpose but the purely functional. Take an old file and hold it to a grinder just long enough to put an edge on it--it is now sharp. Therefore it is a blade and, therefore a knife. But certainly not a piece of art. It is crude. It serves no purpose other than being sharp enough to serve it's function.
On the other hand, if you take a few slices of high-carbon steel
and alternate them with nickel silver, forge weld, fold, weld, fold, weld screw around with in some way, acid etch, shape into a blade, construct a handle out of ivory (fossilized mastodon ivory, of course) and scrimshaw it.
That is a whole lot of work to put into something, when the final result is that it is really no more functional than the first. The pattern welding and the scrimshaw give it a purpose that goes beyond the purely functional--it was created to be beautiful. To have a psychological appeal unrelated to it being sharp and able to cut things well.

Another, shorter, example, is the use of language. Compare an instruction manual to a halfway decent poem. The manual is functional and the writing style is crude, because to add flourish would just be annoying and intrusive. A poem experiments with artistic possibilities in the language, and probably uses at least twice the number of words necessary to say what it says. But it says it especially well, and with an eye toward artistry.

The purposes of pornography and erotica are to display sex and to arouse. Porn does little more than that. The effort that goes into making porn goes into making it functional--simply achieving those goals of being arousing and showing sex. The idea is, "What's happening down there--zoom in so we can see." Erotica generally shows less, but takes the artistic appeal into consideration.

 

[The Bellman]

I personally think that $$$$$ was the reason. I think he genuinely likes Nikki now, but she came with a dowry, a large one, and Bill needed money for Barb's medical care... Nikki herself has questioned if that's why she was brought into the family. I think that *strongly* influenced his taking her as a wife. Bill's not exactly a guy I'd put past doing that sort of thing. I don't think he's really a moral guy (and it has nothing to do with his being a polygamist).

Yes, you're probably right - about the $. I'm not sure about Bill's being a moral guy. I think he honestly tries to do what he thinks is right, including polygamy.

Oh, and thank you for your considerate whiteout of the spoiler. Being in Australia, I haven't yet seen season 2, so I would have been disappointed to hear a spoiler for it. Thanks to your thoughtfulness, I didn't

 

[tammym1972]

I guess I'm one of the few people in here that thinks porn is gross. Watching other people have sex is just not appealing. I would be thinking stuff like eww I wonder if they bathed

The only porn that I accually ever looked at on purpose was antique porn from the 1800's just because it is so weird...

 

[JadeTigress]

I would be thinking stuff like eww I wonder if they bathed

Lol, I do the same thing. I'll be watching and be like "that's shaped really weird", "what's that thing?", or "I don't think it's supposed to do that..."

 

[TheManeki]

Has anybody talked about porn teaching sexual techniques? There are a couple of things (that I probably can't mention) that I learned to do from watching some porn.

We probably would have gotten around to figuring out those things eventually, but the videos proved a nice shortcut.

 

[Mling]

Has anybody talked about porn teaching sexual techniques? There are a couple of things (that I probably can't mention) that I learned to do from watching some porn.

We probably would have gotten around to figuring out those things eventually, but the videos proved a nice shortcut.

That hasn't come up yet, I don't think, but it is an interesting point. Personally, considering the genre porn/erotica that I'd be likely to watch or read, I'm really, very wary about "learning" things from porn. I've seen some things done that I really don't think were safe, or, may have been staged in a safe way but wouldn't be safe for somebody to try at home without taking a class or five. Like, tying somebody, standing, with their hands above their head takes more care and consideration than would seem obvious.

 

[PassionFruit]

Has anybody talked about porn teaching sexual techniques? There are a couple of things (that I probably can't mention) that I learned to do from watching some porn.

We probably would have gotten around to figuring out those things eventually, but the videos proved a nice shortcut.

You have? See, I've always had this philosophy that you shouldn't learn techniques from watching porn? Why? Well, because I feel that people are just trying to imitate what they see, and it may not work. But I guess it could work for some people.

Now I have to wonder what you mean by "shortcut." Does that mean you rather leave out foreplay?

Just wondering.

 

[TheManeki]

You have? See, I've always had this philosophy that you shouldn't learn techniques from watching porn? Why? Well, because I feel that people are just trying to imitate what they see, and it may not work. But I guess it could work for some people.

Now I have to wonder what you mean by "shortcut." Does that mean you rather leave out foreplay?

Just wondering.

Actually, it rather helped the foreplay out. It just helped me learn a couple of things a little faster than I could on my own. (This little smiley seems especially appropriate.)