Popes are Redundant?

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Well good for them for bypassing the pope.

The pope is one of the bishops.

 

[Hentenza]

The pope is one of the bishops.

Ok, I've been up since about 4am so I'm not all here. Care to explain?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Ok, I've been up since about 4am so I'm not all here. Care to explain?

The pope is the bishop of Rome.

 

[Hentenza]

The pope is the bishop of Rome.

LOL! Thanks GCC.

What I was asking is which 23 bishops or churches was Rhamiel taking about.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Hahaha. Phew, I am tired indeed.

I think he's refering to all the various different rites included within the general auspices of the Roman church. Latin, Ukrainian, Maronite, Celtic, etc.

 

[Hentenza]

Hahaha. Phew, I am tired indeed.

I think he's refering to all the various different rites included within the general auspices of the Roman church. Latin, Ukrainian, Maronite, Celtic, etc.

That's what I thought but my mind is big time wondering tonight.

Now, aren't these different rites in communion with Rome and therefore, under the authority of the bishop of Rome?

 

[Rhamiel]

yea, the differant rites, for more on this and many more interesting facts on the Catholic Church drop by OBOB, I do not see the fact that Peter was corrected by Paul a big deal, I bet Pope Benedict XVI (B16 we love you!!!) gets corrected on stuff all the time, I am not sure how many bishops there are, the Pope is the head of the Latin Rite and the spokesman for the Bishops in general, I am not sure how the relationship is with the heads of the other rites, like I think the eastern rite bishops pick the head of the eastern rite just like cardnels (latin rite bishops who can vote who gets to be pope) pick the pope. but i am not sure

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

That's what I thought but my mind is big time wondering tonight.

Now, aren't these different rites in communion with Rome and therefore, under the authority of the bishop of Rome?

Ultimately, yes, though only in the same sense that a clerk in the Department of Housing and Urban development is employed by the U.S. president through a chain of administrators, bureaucrats, undersecretaries, the secretary of HUD, and finally the oval office.

 

[Fireinfolding]

there are so many tail chasing Peter threads debate concerning him is tiring

hentenza is TIRED??

in a nutshell i dont see feed my sheep as proof of some sorta chairhood Jesus said if ya love me Peter feed my sheep and yet (wow) Peter told others to feed the flock of God too i'm sure it was spiritual meat and drink and its clear that does come from a rock which was Christ...Jesus called Peter a name which was interpreted a stone and was brought to Christ ~the living stone~ Himself (its Christ who is both Cheif cornerstone & the
Apostle of our profession) not Cephas, WHO is Cephas? wasnt answered with all the stuff put on him today. And just as Peter was a stone it was Peter said ye are all lively stones.

Christ was his confession, Christ is the Apostle of our profession and that was given (of the Father) and i see that ability to reccognize and confess that He is the Christ the very rock he would build his church on...no other foundation can be laid other then Jesus Christ. In regards to the foundation the church would be built upon were of the same which spake in accordance to the very confession they themselves confessed. the foundation is of plural apostleS and of the singular Apostle Jesus Christ. The Cheif Apostle is Christ the Rock (even of revelation) given of the Father (not revealed by flesh and blood) Just as with Paul who said, for God revealed HIS SON (the Rock ) in me SO THAT I might PREACH HIM (((I in you)) and ((you in me))... ~lively stones~ built up in Him who is the living Stone the builders can infact reject etc etc etc

Just as the Father gave Peter to confess what no man can without the Spirit. Jesus was pointing that out to them and confirmed in the epistles as well. Jesus both asked the disciples who others said he was THEN ASKED them contrasting what ~other men~ said verses what they said. He was showing it was not of themselves but pointed out it was GIVEN THEM of the Father. It was that blessedness not revealed by flesh and blood (as it was not revealed to Paul by flesh and blood either).though if you notice when Peter answered Jesus its interesting to note he was adressing the THEM not just Peter alone. i cant see a doctrine of a man come forth but a patern all disciples of Christ can somehow inwardly identify given Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and for ever....in short... i just dont get the peter colored glasses.

the same verses are whipped out in his justification, which is really weird because i havent a single problem with them nor would i want to slight against Peter. Its just the weight others put on it and appears as a power thing... sorry but the old Peter was correctable not infallible "feed my sheep" is pulled out like a trump card and wouldnt even understand one would think it wraps things up when it adds nothing to the argument.

just not getting it or seeing it at all.

 

[Fireinfolding]

man this bed typing stinks yall are two pages ahead of me took me for ever to type that post and its out of place now

 

[Rhamiel]

The Bishop of Rome (Pope) is the first among equals, he is a Bishop and thus a modern apostle, I know the Pope apoints the Bishops of the Latin rite but I am not sure how the Bishops of the Eastern Rites are apointed

 

[Hentenza]

yea, the differant rites, for more on this and many more interesting facts on the Catholic Church drop by OBOB, I do not see the fact that Peter was corrected by Paul a big deal, I bet Pope Benedict XVI (B16 we love you!!!) gets corrected on stuff all the time, I am not sure how many bishops there are, the Pope is the head of the Latin Rite and the spokesman for the Bishops in general, I am not sure how the relationship is with the heads of the other rites, like I think the eastern rite bishops pick the head of the eastern rite just like cardnels (latin rite bishops who can vote who gets to be pope) pick the pope. but i am not sure

Well If I remember correctly there are three different levels of Cardinals that constitute the College of Cardinals. These total about 200, all spread around the world. Each of them is allowed to vote in conclave. What I don't remember is if the cardinals from the other rites are included. I'll google it tomorrow when I am not this tired.

 

[Hentenza]

there are so many tail chasing Peter threads debate concerning him is tiring

hentenza is TIRED??

in a nutshell i dont see feed my sheep as proof of some sorta chairhood Jesus said if ya love me Peter feed my sheep and yet (wow) Peter told others to feed the flock of God too i'm sure it was spiritual meat and drink and its clear that does come from a rock which was Christ...Jesus called Peter a name which was interpreted a stone and was brought to Christ ~the living stone~ Himself (its Christ who is both Cheif cornerstone & the
Apostle of our profession) not Cephas, WHO is Cephas? wasnt answered with all the stuff put on him today. And just as Peter was a stone it was Peter said ye are all lively stones.

Christ was his confession, Christ is the Apostle of our profession and that was given (of the Father) and i see that ability to reccognize and confess that He is the Christ the very rock he would build his church on...no other foundation can be laid other then Jesus Christ. In regards to the foundation the church would be built upon were of the same which spake in accordance to the very confession they themselves confessed. the foundation is of plural apostleS and of the singular Apostle Jesus Christ. The Cheif Apostle is Christ the Rock (even of revelation) given of the Father (not revealed by flesh and blood) Just as with Paul who said, for God revealed HIS SON (the Rock ) in me SO THAT I might PREACH HIM (((I in you)) and ((you in me))... ~lively stones~ built up in Him who is the living Stone the builders can infact reject etc etc etc

Just as the Father gave Peter to confess what no man can without the Spirit. Jesus was pointing that out to them and confirmed in the epistles as well. Jesus both asked the disciples who others said he was THEN ASKED them contrasting what ~other men~ said verses what they said. He was showing it was not of themselves but pointed out it was GIVEN THEM of the Father. It was that blessedness not revealed by flesh and blood (as it was not revealed to Paul by flesh and blood either).though if you notice when Peter answered Jesus its interesting to note he was adressing the THEM not just Peter alone. i cant see a doctrine of a man come forth but a patern all disciples of Christ can somehow inwardly identify given Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and for ever....in short... i just dont get the peter colored glasses.

the same verses are whipped out in his justification, which is really weird because i havent a single problem with them nor would i want to slight against Peter. Its just the weight others put on it and appears as a power thing... sorry but the old Peter was correctable not infallible "feed my sheep" is pulled out like a trump card and wouldnt even understand one would think it wraps things up when it adds nothing to the argument.

just not getting it or seeing it at all.

Yep! I'm beat but can't get to sleep so here I am zombie typing.

I agree completely that Jesus is the cornerstone of His church and that the rock in Mat 16 is faith not Peter.

 

[Hentenza]

man this bed typing stinks yall are two pages ahead of me took me for ever to type that post and its out of place now

*hugs for you* I bet once you get out of the bed you won't get back in it for at least a week.

I pray that you feel better soon.

 

[sunlover1]

Peter is given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. Peter is given the ability to bind and loose sins. Peter is called the 'rock' on which the Church is built.

He was speaking to a group here:

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him?...​

http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6015928#_ftn1http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6015928#_ftnref1

 

[Fireinfolding]

*hugs for you* I bet once you get out of the bed you won't get back in it for at least a week.

I pray that you feel better soon.

i am much better already thanks hentenza,

i'm simply waiting on my hubby to move my puter back to the desk...i'm just griping about typing on the bed, i'm ok now..

wooohooo!! i can sit again praise God

 

[Hentenza]

i am much better already thanks hentenza,

i'm simply waiting on my hubby to move my puter back to the desk...i'm just griping about typing on the bed, i'm ok now..

wooohooo!! i can sit again praise God

Glad to hear it Fire!

Now, go tell that hubby of yours to do what he's told.

 

[sunlover1]

wooohooo!! i can sit again praise God

HALLELUIA !

 

[disasm]

He was speaking to a group here:

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him?...​

http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6015928#_ftn1http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6015928#_ftnref1

Interesting... In Matthew 16 it says

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Then on in Matthew 18 it changes to

18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

If it weren't for the KJV I'd have to lookup every instance of you in Greek ;-) Why did we ever get rid of thee/thou/thine and ye? It makes analyzing text so much easier, but back to our regular scheduled topic...

I missed that before. That supports the EO position even more that it's all the bishops given the power to bind and loose, not just Peter.

Also, here is a little tidbit from my study bible:

Keys of the kingdom clearly implies a special authority given to Peter himself, but never separated from his confession of faith. While Peter was a leader of the disciples and of the early Church, all the apostles were empowered with Christ's authority (18:18). Further, Peter was not a leader over the others but a leader among them, as seen at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), where elders, or presbyters, met with the apostles together as equals. Papal claims in later centuries must not be confused with the NT witness regarding Peter, nor should the role of Peter in the NT be minimized in opposition to those claims.

Binding and loosing is a reference to the teaching, sacramental, and administrative powers of the Apostles which were transmitted to the bishops of the Church.

 

[Rhamiel]

Keys of the kingdom clearly implies a special authority given to Peter himself, but never separated from his confession of faith. While Peter was a leader of the disciples and of the early Church, all the apostles were empowered with Christ's authority (18:18). Further, Peter was not a leader over the others but a leader among them, as seen at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), where elders, or presbyters, met with the apostles together as equals. Papal claims in later centuries must not be confused with the NT witness regarding Peter, nor should the role of Peter in the NT be minimized in opposition to those claims.

that is right, all the apostles have authority and
responsibilities, and it is the collection of the Pope with the other bishops that makes up the magistrum of the Church. There were also political reasons for the centrality of the papacy, the decay of law and order in the west after the fall of the Roman Empire called for a central force to stand up, the Papacy filled the void, was this bad in and of itself? no, some good things and some bad things happened as a result of this.