Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

[angellica]

So then stop forcing those outdated views on everyone else.

Not forcing, and not backing down either. Forcing our views would mean we forced everyone to be straight, to have only straight sex.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Not forcing, and not backing down either. Forcing our views would mean we forced everyone to be straight, to have only straight sex.

Many people are sick and tired of you forcing your opinions on the rest of us, do as you please and let others do the same or I can guarantee that more and more people are going to stand up to silence those that believe as you do.

There are states that will not allow me to sell my beer (because the abv% is too high) in them because they have alcohol laws that cannot be overturned because of opposition from the church. There are states that outlaw sodomy or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] because of the church and there are lots of states with blue laws. These things are ridiculous and need to be taken to task and the power of the church needs to be neutered.

 

[angellica]

Many people are sick and tired of you forcing your opinions on the rest of us, do as you please and let others do the same or I can guarantee that more and more people are going to stand up to silence those that believe as you do.

There are states that will not allow me to sell my beer (because the abv% is too high) in them because they have alcohol laws that cannot be overturned because of opposition from the church. There are states that outlaw sodomy or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] because of the church and there are lots of states with blue laws. These things are ridiculous and need to be taken to task and the power of the church needs to be neutered.

How are you going to do that? Is there a time limit after which, if you don't silence us, you will compensate me because you failed to meet the requirements of the guarantee?

 

[OphidiaPhile]

How are you going to do that? Is there a time limit after which, if you don't silence us, you will compensate me because you failed to meet the requirements of the guarantee?

Good answer, no but people are sick of being controlled by a book that has no power or legitimacy.

 

[bsd13]

All your wishing that it did say that won't make it so.

You cannot read that passage in context, and find a blanket condemnation of homosexuality.

The only way you can find a "condemnation" of sorts, is to read it through your own prejudiced glasses.

Try again.

1) Malachi 3:6

"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (NASB)

"For I [am] Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed." (Young's Literal)

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (KJV)

"For I Jehovah change not, and ye, sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (Darby)

"I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." (NIV)

2) 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (NASB)

"have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit." (Youngs Literal)

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV)

"Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor [the] rapacious, shall inherit [the] kingdom of God." (Darby)

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)

3) So is God a liar, or did He change? Because either He's lying when He says that homosexual offenders shall not inherit His Kingdom, or He changed His mind. Of course there's another possibility but that wouldn't fit very well with your theology.

 

[angellica]

1) Malachi 3:6

"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (NASB)

"For I [am] Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed." (Young's Literal)
....

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)

3) So is God a liar, or did He change? Because either He's lying when He says that homosexual offenders shall not inherit His Kingdom, or He changed His mind. Of course there's another possibility but that wouldn't fit very well with your theology.

In your post, it says I posted this part:

All your wishing that it did say that won't make it so.

You cannot read that passage in context, and find a blanket condemnation of homosexuality.

The only way you can find a "condemnation" of sorts, is to read it through your own prejudiced glasses.

Try again.

but I didn't . It was originally posted by Chalice. Just wanted to clear it up.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

1) Malachi 3:6

"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (NASB)

"For I [am] Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed." (Young's Literal)

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (KJV)

"For I Jehovah change not, and ye, sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (Darby)

"I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." (NIV)

2) 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (NASB)

"have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit." (Youngs Literal)

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV)

"Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor [the] rapacious, shall inherit [the] kingdom of God." (Darby)

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)

3) So is God a liar, or did He change? Because either He's lying when He says that homosexual offenders shall not inherit His Kingdom, or He changed His mind. Of course there's another possibility but that wouldn't fit very well with your theology.

There was no word for homosexual back then so that is merely speculation at best.

 

[morningstar2651]

1) Malachi 3:6

"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (NASB)

"For I [am] Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed." (Young's Literal)

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (KJV)

"For I Jehovah change not, and ye, sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (Darby)

"I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." (NIV)

2) 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (NASB)

"have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit." (Youngs Literal)

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV)

"Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor [the] rapacious, shall inherit [the] kingdom of God." (Darby)

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)

3) So is God a liar, or did He change? Because either He's lying when He says that homosexual offenders shall not inherit His Kingdom, or He changed His mind. Of course there's another possibility but that wouldn't fit very well with your theology.

Wait...are you saying God never changes his mind?

 

[bsd13]

Many people are sick and tired of you forcing your opinions on the rest of us, do as you please and let others do the same or I can guarantee that more and more people are going to stand up to silence those that believe as you do.

That's been the same threat for well over two thousand years. It hasn't stopped God before what makes you think it will stop Him now?

There are states that will not allow me to sell my beer (because the abv% is too high) in them because they have alcohol laws that cannot be overturned because of opposition from the church. There are states that outlaw sodomy or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] because of the church and there are lots of states with blue laws. These things are ridiculous and need to be taken to task and the power of the church needs to be neutered.

Do you not realize that the "church" is actually people. The majority of people, Christian or not, actually support a somewhat conservative society. Maybe not what I would call 24/7 Sunday school conservatism, but certainly more conservative than you seem to think is the case.

 

[bsd13]

Wait...are you saying God never changes his mind?

Nope He does not. The only thing He changes is how He deals with things. For instance He used to let humans deal with homosexuals (stoning) but changed His mind and reserved that for Himself ("leave room for God's wrath") His standards however do not change.

 

[bsd13]

In your post, it says I posted this part:

but I didn't . It was originally posted by Chalice. Just wanted to clear it up.

Sorry, this forum uses some pretty poorly designed message board as it doesn't naturally allow for deep quoting.

 

[morningstar2651]

Nope He does not. The only thing He changes is how He deals with things. For instance He used to let humans deal with homosexuals (stoning) but changed His mind and reserved that for Himself ("leave room for God's wrath") His standards however do not change.

Which is it. Yes or no?

Both does not make sense as an answer.

 

[angellica]

Sorry, this forum uses some pretty poorly designed message board as it doesn't naturally allow for deep quoting.

Haha, yeah because I had to edit mine twice for it to show up right . I knew you didn't mean to.

 

[bsd13]

There was no word for homosexual back then so that is merely speculation at best.

Are you certain of that?

 

[bsd13]

Which is it. Yes or no?

Both does not make sense as an answer.

Oh you're very clever. But not nearly clever enough.

The answer is still no. If you read carefully you would notice I did not say God never changes His mind. I said His laws never change, His standards never change, His decrees never change. More than once He changed His mind about how to deal with people, but the scriptures say He "does not change", not "he never changes his mind"

 

[OphidiaPhile]

That's been the same threat for well over two thousand years. It hasn't stopped God before what makes you think it will stop Him now?

There is no god to stop it is those people that use the bible to control others when it is not their right to do so.

Do you not realize that the "church" is actually people. The majority of people, Christian or not, actually support a somewhat conservative society. Maybe not what I would call 24/7 Sunday school conservatism, but certainly more conservative than you seem to think is the case.

There are more liberals than conservatives in the US.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Are you certain of that?

Yes

 

[bsd13]

There is no god to stop it is those people that use the bible to control others when it is not their right to do so.

Then you have to tip your hat that a rag-tag bunch of uneducated, short sighted, close minded, people somehow managed to control all those who are so much more enlightened than they are. You may not like that it happened, but you have to respect that they were able to pull it off, no?

There are more liberals than conservatives in the US.

You're talking out of the wrong end. There might be more liberals in your circle of friends but by no means is the nation more liberal than conservative. The prop 8 vote should have clued you in to this fact.

 

[morningstar2651]

Oh you're very clever. But not nearly clever enough.

The answer is still no. If you read carefully you would notice I did not say God never changes His mind. I said His laws never change, His standards never change, His decrees never change. More than once He changed His mind about how to deal with people, but the scriptures say He "does not change", not "he never changes his mind"

Read my question again.

Wait...are you saying God never changes his mind?

Nope He does not. The only thing He changes is how He deals with things. For instance He used to let humans deal with homosexuals (stoning) but changed His mind and reserved that for Himself ("leave room for God's wrath") His standards however do not change.

Which is it. Yes or no?

Both does not make sense as an answer.

Oh you're very clever. But not nearly clever enough.

The answer is still no. If you read carefully you would notice I did not say God never changes His mind. I said His laws never change, His standards never change, His decrees never change. More than once He changed His mind about how to deal with people, but the scriptures say He "does not change", not "he never changes his mind"

 

[uberd00b]

The answer is still no. If you read carefully you would notice I did not say God never changes His mind. I said His laws never change, His standards never change, His decrees never change. More than once He changed His mind about how to deal with people, but the scriptures say He "does not change", not "he never changes his mind"

The poor thing can't change? Can't grow? Evolve? Learn? If he's wrong he just stays wrong? That's very sad, he must be very envious of us.

Nor is such a proclamation really borne out by the evidence, with the large change in God's character between the OT and NT and the various now defunct laws.