Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

[OphidiaPhile]

Then you have to tip your hat that a rag-tag bunch of uneducated, short sighted, close minded, people somehow managed to control all those who are so much more enlightened than they are. You may not like that it happened, but you have to respect that they were able to pull it off, no?

The somewhat educated but ignorant and bigoted were able to control the not educated, superstitious and even more ignorant is not something that would be hard to pull off.

You're talking out of the wrong end. There might be more liberals in your circle of friends but by no means is the nation more liberal than conservative. The prop 8 vote should have clued you in to this fact.

All voter registrations show that there are more liberals and the numbers of socialists such as myself are growing quite dramatically and again the prop 8 vote won on the lies of the pro prop 8 group who should be sued into oblivion over it.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

You know what's really funny? That the ongoing "dialog" with Angellica would have ended six pages ago if she would stop dodging questions and answer them honestly. This is now I think four or five threads where I have asked pointed questions where the answer would have ended the argument one way or the other, and she refuses to answer them but goes on to be deliberately obtuse in answering other related posts.

Funny, that.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Not forcing, and not backing down either. Forcing our views would mean we forced everyone to be straight, to have only straight sex.

LOL, that's pretty funny, considering you overlook at least one half of this entire argument. Again this goes back to that Highlander/Prius thing.

Your dodging very valid points and questions made by myself and others has quickly eroded any credibility you and your argument may have had.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

LOL, that's pretty funny, considering you overlook at least one half of this entire argument. Again this goes back to that Highlander/Prius thing.

Your dodging very valid points and questions made by myself and others has quickly eroded any credibility you and your argument may have had.

Credibility?

There is not one scripture ANYWHERE in the Bible to promote this homosexualization of Christianity.

This thread is about a Christian leader (Pope Benedict) proclaiming the issue of encouraging homosexuality as incompatible with Christian truth, and protecting The Church from people now trying to find a Christian platform for gay activism.

Is that not the issue?

 

[WatersMoon110]

Being a Christian means we are set apart from the world and its views and beliefs and morals. We are held to God's laws as well. God created people who commit murder and he condemns murder. He created liars, alcoholics, adulterers, etc. He hates the sin but not the sinner .

Murders, liars, alcoholics, and adulterers all tend to harm someone other than themself (except for some alcoholics and some liars). Homosexuals do not, and they can form healthy relationships that benefit both of them.

If something isn't harmful - I do not see how it could be sinful.

Not forcing, and not backing down either. Forcing our views would mean we forced everyone to be straight, to have only straight sex.

Then by that logic - advocates of same sex marriage are not forcing their views on you, since that would force you to "become" gay and get a gay marriage. *rolls eyes*

By your definition, neither side is forcing a view on the other.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Then by that logic - advocates of same sex marriage are not forcing their views on you, since that would force you to "become" gay and get a gay marriage. *rolls eyes*

By your definition, neither side is forcing a view on the other.

That point has been brought up by numerous people in this thread and others, and is repeatedly ignored. Every time this point is brought up, it is met with either the sound of crickets, or the equivalent of saying "nuh-uh!"

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Credibility?

There is not one scriptute ANYWHERE in the Bible to promote this homosexualization of Christianity.

This thread is about a Christian leader (Pope Benedict) proclaiming the issue of encouraging homosexuality as incompatible with Christian truth, and protecting The Church from people now trying to find a Christian platform for gay activism.

Is that not the issue?

Try following the thread, at least a little. It has taken many turns, and no, that isn't the issue I was addressing, directly.

 

[uberd00b]

That point has been brought up by numerous people in this thread and others, and is repeatedly ignored. Every time this point is brought up, it is met with either the sound of crickets, or the equivalent of saying "nuh-uh!"

Not surprising really. There is no solid argument on the anti-gay side. No solid foundation or good reasoning. Just prejudice, bigotry, small-mindedness and dishonesty. Not things I would class as "Christian" behaviour.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Try following the thread, at least a little.

I'm not a lemming anymore. So it's tough for me to wander behind those headed for the cliffs. I'm a Christian now. I think freely and often. All by myself even.

It has taken many turns, and no, that isn't the issue I was addressing, directly.

But the thread is about this though right?:

Pope: Saving world from homosexuality . . .

 

[geekgirlkelli]

I'm not a lemming anymore. So it's tough for me to wander behind those headed for the cliffs. I'm a Christian now. I think freely and often. All by myself even.



But the thread is about this though right?:

Pope: Saving world from homosexuality . . .

If you're so disinterested in following the thread, then why not just shut off your computer and don't ever come back again?

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Not surprising really. There is no solid argument on the anti-gay side. No solid foundation or good reasoning. Just prejudice, bigotry, small-mindedness and dishonesty. Not things I would class as "Christian" behaviour.

And yet they continue to engage in "debate."

 

[bsd13]

I'm not a lemming anymore. So it's tough for me to wander behind those headed for the cliffs. I'm a Christian now. I think freely and often. All by myself even.



But the thread is about this though right?:

Pope: Saving world from homosexuality . . .

They (the "liberals") will take the thread in any direction they can go in order to hear (or read as the case may be) what they want.

 

[bsd13]

The poor thing can't change? Can't grow? Evolve? Learn? If he's wrong he just stays wrong? That's very sad, he must be very envious of us.

Nor is such a proclamation really borne out by the evidence, with the large change in God's character between the OT and NT and the various now defunct laws.

He's God. Already knows all. Is fully grown and matured. He's not a man that needs to learn from His mistakes. Not a babe that grows into manhood and learns along the way. He came "fully assembled" from before time ever began.

It must be terribly frustrating for you to not be able to comprehend that God always was, always is, and always will be the same. Rather than trying to understand it, because you are too ignorant as we all are, just recognize it.

There's been no change in God's character. Show me ONE, just ONE single place where God's character has been shown to change in the scriptures...

 

[WatersMoon110]

And yet they continue to engage in "debate."

If they didn't, we wouldn't have anything to debate at all - to be fair.

I mean, it sort of makes sense that those of us in favor of equal rights for gay people (in addition to everyone else) really are not going to be convinced by the arguments of those against gay rights. I don't think anyone could be convinced, not unless they already "bought into" the idea that homosexuality was "sinful". If one doesn't start with that view, I don't think there is any way to reach it (to be convinced of it).

 

[WatersMoon110]

He's God. Already knows all. Is fully grown and matured. He's not a man that needs to learn from His mistakes. Not a babe that grows into manhood and learns along the way. He came "fully assembled" from before time ever began.

It must be terribly frustrating for you to not be able to comprehend that God always was, always is, and always will be the same. Rather than trying to understand it, because you are too ignorant as we all are, just recognize it.

There's been no change in God's character. Show me ONE, just ONE single place where God's character has been shown to change in the scriptures...

No - but God has changed the rules given to humans - in the OT, divorce was permitted and divorce for any reason was a given in Jewish society while Jesus was teaching. But Jesus told the Pharisees that God had only permitted them divorce (in the Laws given to Moses) because their hearts were hardened - so Jesus had to change the rules (back - based on a different bit of scripture).

Personally, I think there is a large difference between how God is described in the Old Testament (focusing more on His vengeful aspects) and how He is described in the New Testament, particularly the Gospels (focusing more on His loving aspects).

God doesn't change, but human society does - and I think that one can interpret the newer changes as Biblically sound (particularly if one focuses on the historical context of each bit of Biblical text).

 

[TheBear]

Seriously folks, come up with some new material or get off the stage. Something with some substance. Something that at least makes an ounce of sense.

The only thing they have is ancient religious texts and tribal teachings, and of course, the "it's always been that way" argument. What we're witnessing today is the last throws of religious folks digging in their heels and fighting to keep things the way they were. We see this pattern repeated throughout history. For example, until recent times, women were treated as second class citizens, and weren't even allowed to vote. Until recent times, slavery was the norm in societies. Until recent times, cruel beatings and corporal punishment was totally accepted by societies.

Today, Western societies have morally evolved to the point where women are treated as equals. That realization wasn't spelled out as a moral edict from an ancient holy text. Today, Western societies abhor slavery. Again, that realization wasn't spelled out as a moral edict from an ancient holy text. Today, Western societies loath the idea of cruel and corporal punishment. Once more, that realization wasn't spelled out as a moral edict from an ancient holy text.

In all those cases and more, if the argument of "It's always been that way" won the day, then all of those conditions would still exist today, and no one would think twice about it.

And with same-sex marriage, we're in the midst of yet another moral paradigm shift. As with all those other moral issues of the past, the upheaval and ruckus over same-sex marriage will eventually subside. 100 years from now, it won't even be an issue.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

The only thing they have is ancient religious texts and tribal teachings, and of course, the "it's always been that way" argument. What we're witnessing today is the last throws of religious folks digging in their heels and fighting to keep things the way they were.

What we are seeing is a perverse generation rising once again. History repeating itself. It and they too will come and go. And good, decent solid families will arise yet again from the ashes of a dead lascivious society.

We see this pattern repeated throughout history.

Well done TB.

For example, until recent times, women were treated as second class citizens, and weren't even allowed to vote. Until recent times, slavery was the norm in societies. Until recent times, cruel beatings and corporal punishment was totally accepted by societies.

Hmm, comparing people's sex acts to people oppressed. How fascinating to watch this implemented over and over again.

Today, Western societies have morally evolved to the point where women are treated as equals.

Oh really? The women in the legalized brothels, the thriving underground porn and prostitution industry or the ones aborted because they are inconvenient? Just where is this utopia again?

That realization wasn't spelled out as a moral edict from an ancient holy text.

No it was looking at morality and immorality. Sex acts are just a persons desires. Their gratifications sexually. They are not definers of minority classification.

Today, Western societies abhor slavery.

Oh really? How many of the "women" in porn are doing that because its better then making money in say banking?

Again, that realization wasn't spelled out as a moral edict from an ancient holy text.

And once again, you're comparing a sex act to an individual person being forced to do something against their will. Gay sex is a very premeditated act.

Today, Western societies loath the idea of cruel and corporal punishment.

And yet our youth are extremely violent to each other.

Once more, that realization wasn't spelled out as a moral edict from an ancient holy text.

It was spelled out in Humanist beliefs. Forced on all through the "education system."

In all those cases and more, if the argument of "It's always been that way" won the day, then all of those conditions would still exist today, and no one would think twice about it.

Corporal punishment was a role modeling technique and not really a punishment. Now you have children killing each other, having a porn morality and are dropping out of school in high numbers. Only to become enslaved in and to poverty.

And with same-sex marriage, we're in the midst of yet another moral paradigm shift.

A moral paradigm shift. 100% correct.

As with all those other moral issues of the past, the upheaval and ruckus over same-sex marriage will eventually subside. 100 years from now, it won't even be an issue.

It will be once again relegated to the deviant and "other" world where it has always existed and belonged. Greece and Rome where not myths.

History will not be mocked either.

 

[TheBear]

Anyone else want to take this? It's getting a bit tiresome for me at the moment.

 

[b&wpac4]

What we are seeing is a perverse generation rising once again. History repeating itself. It and they too will come and go. And good, decent solid families will arise yet again from the ashes of a dead lascivious society.



Well done TB.



Hmm, comparing people's sex acts to people oppressed. How fascinating to watch this implemented over and over again.



Oh really? The women in the legalized brothels, the thriving underground porn and prostitution industry or the ones aborted because they are inconvenient? Just where is this utopia again?



No it was looking at morality and immorality. Sex acts are just a persons desires. Their gratifications sexually. They are not definers of minority classification.



Oh really? How many of the "women" in porn are doing that because its better then making money in say banking?



And once again, you're comparing a sex act to an individual person being forced to do something against their will. Gay sex is a very premeditated act.



And yet our youth are extremely violent to each other.



It was spelled out in Humanist beliefs. Forced on all through the "education system."



Corporal punishment was a role modeling technique and not really a punishment. Now you have children killing each other, having a porn morality and are dropping out of school in high numbers. Only to become enslaved in and to poverty.



A moral paradigm shift. 100% correct.



It will be once again relegated to the deviant and "other" world where it has always existed and belonged. Greece and Rome where not myths.

History will not be mocked either.

Hi there, PF_C. You still have yet to account for the falling violent crime rates over the past 50 or so years. Once you do that, you can argue your points again. Until then, you're just wrong. Thanks.

 

[SiderealExalt]

I mean as long as we're going to mention Greece and Rome, two of the most hugely influential cultures in the history of the world. I suppose it would be too much trouble to mention the positive things that both cultures contributed. But I suppose wearing rose colored glasses is more......convenient.