Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

[bsd13]

Nice try, slick. But everyone who is reading this can see right through your distortions and twisting of what transpired. As another member pointed out, it's all there in black and white.

And even though every single one of us participating in these threads are discussing from our own viewpoints, (including yourself), the focus of this discussion is what the Pope stated, not on the persons involved in the discussion. This thread is not about me, is not focused on my personal feelings, and the thread title and topic isn't - "TheBear's personal reactions to the Pope's remarks."

I'm sure you'll distort these remarks as well, and come up with all kinds of excuses and tap dancing in order to save face. Fact of the matter is, for the rest of us reading this, all you'll be doing is digging yourself deeper into the hole. You would get a lot more respect if you merely admitted what you've done and apologized for it. I don't see that coming any time soon. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll soon see.

Note to the seekers here, who are honestly considering Christianity -

A lot of Christians don't behave the way this particular Christian has been acting. I'm sure he's a total embarrassment to other Christians. But I wanted to point out the fact that just because someone is a Christian, doesn't automatically mean they take the moral high road.

I asked you a very SIMPLE question. There was no malicious intent; it was merely for your opinion but apparently your opinion is too personal to be inquired of.

Forgive me.

And what business do you have in telling anyone how a Christian is supposed to act? You know nothing of it. Your statement that "just because someone is a Christian, doesn't automatically mean they take the moral high road" proves that much.

 

[Braunwyn]

And what business do you have in telling anyone how a Christian is supposed to act? You know nothing of it.

Priceless!

Yes, what business does anyone have telling you how a christian should act, providing nothing illegal is involved. What business do you have telling two adults who they should and shouldn't marry?

Gotta love the double standards.

 

[MaxP]

Can you make a case that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin? Yes, I think that's quite clear. But I cannot understand why the huge attack on that sin, and almost no attack on other sins.

Because homosexuality is in the news. Most other sins Christians would fight against have already been accepted by society. Homosexuality is on the verge.

 

[bsd13]

Most Christians I encounter are good people. Truth be told, the reason I get so upset with the kinds you have described Bear, is because I used to be exactly that way. I would attack people using The Bible, stripping out whatever verse I wanted to try to force my views on them and then standing back incredulously when they would fight back and try to force their views on me.

So using scriptures to support a scriptural position is attacking? What about the upteen zillion times someone comes along and says to prove it to them in the Bible, or claims the Bible doesn't say that? Is using scriptures then attacking them?

I've consistently said that any verse needs to be looked at in the proper context. In fact you and I discussed that very thing a couple of days ago. If you're accusing me of "stripping out whatever verse I wanted" did you expect I would go through and print out the entire process of hermeneutics that led up to that verse?

Can you make a case that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin? Yes, I think that's quite clear. But I cannot understand why the huge attack on that sin, and almost no attack on other sins. Why are you not trying to make premarital sex a crime? Why do you feel you have some sort of divine mandate to force others to follow your code, when the only theocracy in the Bible is the country of Israel, which we are not.

The issue is not sex. It's marriage. If you believe the Bibles says homosexuality is a sin then surely you believe it says marriage is holy in the sight of God and defined between man and woman. This isn't about attacking homosexuality it is about standing up for marriage.

You want your churches left alone, but you want to be able to impose your views. It doesn't work that way. All you should do is live your life as unto the Lord, you can't force others to do the same.

So you being a former Christian would say that God's position as shown in the Bible has been to just leave things alone and everyone gets along?

"I don't want the government involved in my church but there should be mandatory prayer in school." That view is just stupid, and it is one I held for a long time. That one and a thousand other ones just like it.

When did I ever say anything about mandatory prayer in school?!

If a student wants to pray then there should be nothing to stop them just as there should be nothing to force anyone else to pray. I don't know what doctrine you were brought up with but if it produced thoughts like there should be mandatory prayers in school I'm not surprised you left the faith.

 

[mpok1519]

this is funny....I always hear people "Stop attacking me" "I'm not, Im just defending [x]" "No, you're attacking me" "By standing up for [x]"

the word "attack" is overused nowadays.

I think its bc we live in a violence-obsessed world. =)

 

[SiderealExalt]

The issue is not sex. It's marriage. If you believe the Bibles says homosexuality is a sin then surely you believe it says marriage is holy in the sight of God and defined between man and woman. This isn't about attacking homosexuality it is about standing up for marriage.

It's awesome to watch people "stand up" for marriage by mocking it.

If a student wants to pray then there should be nothing to stop them just as there should be nothing to force anyone else to pray. I don't know what doctrine you were brought up with but if it produced thoughts like there should be mandatory prayers in school I'm not surprised you left the faith.

You could always move to Iran. I bet they have mandatory prayer.

Because homosexuality is in the news. Most other sins Christians would fight against have already been accepted by society. Homosexuality is on the verge.

Good. Because Christianity's ideas of morals are not really all that moral.

 

[Beanieboy]

Can you make a case that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin? Yes, I think that's quite clear.

I don't understand how it can be clear when we barely understand it now, calling it a sexual orientation rather than the pre-1970s mental illness. Post 1973, when it was shown not to qualify as a mental illness, people claimed that it was simply a choice, something that is being slowly proven to not be that simple, but very complicated.

So, I don't see how it was clear in the bible if we barely understand now, and think of it radically different than we did not 40 years ago.

 

[bsd13]

It's awesome to watch people "stand up" for marriage by mocking it.

Homosexuals do not "marry" THAT is mocking marriage. Drawing a line and saying enough is enough is not mocking anything.

You could always move to Iran. I bet they have mandatory prayer.

You don't even actually read what you're respond to do you.

Good. Because Christianity's ideas of morals are not really all that moral.

That's not the real problem. The real problem is that Christian morals are absolute while the morals you want are shifting to fit the situation.

 

[Braunwyn]

Homosexuals do not "marry" THAT is mocking marriage. Drawing a line and saying enough is enough is not mocking anything.

eh?

The real problem is that Christian morals are absolute while the morals you want are shifting to fit the situation.

That's pretty inaccurate from where I sit.

 

[Aianna]

Homosexuals do not "marry" THAT is mocking marriage. Drawing a line and saying enough is enough is not mocking anything.

They marry in plenty of places; Connecticut, Massachusetts, Canada, and the Netherlands are all examples of places where they do indeed marry.

You're still failing to recognize that marriage as a legal practice is different than it is as a religious practice. Nobody is talking about what your church has to recognize; we don't care what your church recognizes.

That's not the real problem. The real problem is that Christian morals are absolute while the morals you want are shifting to fit the situation.

Morality isn't as black and white as you seem to want it to be; there are shades of gray. It's an extremely complex thing and following a "list" of dos and don'ts isn't sufficient; one has to judge on a case by case basis.

Honesty is something the vast majority of people see as a good characteristic, however it's very easy to imagine a situation where lying could be argued as a moral choice. What if a lie saves a life or lives from a murderer? Was it truly an immoral action to lie in such a case?

 

[SiderealExalt]

Homosexuals do not "marry" THAT is mocking marriage. Drawing a line and saying enough is enough is not mocking anything.

Treating people as subhuman is also pretty bad too.

You don't even actually read what you're respond to do you.

No I did. I'm sure you can check really fast about Iran.

That's not the real problem. The real problem is that Christian morals are absolute while the morals you want are shifting to fit the situation.

To Christians anyway. And there's nothing quite so sad and disturbing of those who are unequivocably certain of their self righteousness.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Because homosexuality is in the news. Most other sins Christians would fight against have already been accepted by society. Homosexuality is on the verge.

So when all else fails Christians use lies and deceit to get their way, prop 8 is proof of that.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Because homosexuality is in the news. Most other sins Christians would fight against have already been accepted by society. Homosexuality is on the verge.

So instead of focusing on all of the problems that are already accepted, you choose to go for one that isn't a problem yet?

That doesn't make sense. Wouldn't you want to deal with the larger problems - the things that society accepts? Why not fight the problems that have been going on far longer? Isn't that what a good Christian should do - work to help people who are already suffering, not work to prevent something that might possibly cause suffering sometime in the future?

You pick on Homosexuality because it is an easy target. But wouldn't it be better for society (from your view) to work on the problems that are effecting the most people?

 

[angellica]

So instead of focusing on all of the problems that are already accepted, you choose to go for one that isn't a problem yet?

That doesn't make sense. Wouldn't you want to deal with the larger problems - the things that society accepts? Why not fight the problems that have been going on far longer? Isn't that what a good Christian should do - work to help people who are already suffering, not work to prevent something that might possibly cause suffering sometime in the future?

You pick on Homosexuality because it is an easy target. But wouldn't it be better for society (from your view) to work on the problems that are effecting the most people?

It also has to do with most homo couples parading around in Pride Parades, flaunting their sin. It is one thing to know something is a sin and do it anyway and still be aware that you have sinned and be sorry for it, and quite another to openly flaunt the sin and be proud of it.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

It also has to do with most homo couples parading around in Pride Parades, flaunting their sin. It is one thing to know something is a sin and do it anyway and still be aware that you have sinned and be sorry for it, and quite another to openly flaunt the sin and be proud of it.

Pride Parades started as a way for homosexual people to know they are not alone and to show solidarity, and most people that go to watch the parades are heterosexual and many people take their kids. Here in Northern CA we have just as many or more heterosexual events that show more skin and sex than the gay pride parade, The Exotic Erotic Ball (the best one), many naked bike rides, fetish and bondage displays and shows and many many more.

 

[WatersMoon110]

It also has to do with most homo couples parading around in Pride Parades, flaunting their sin. It is one thing to know something is a sin and do it anyway and still be aware that you have sinned and be sorry for it, and quite another to openly flaunt the sin and be proud of it.

What do you call Mardi Gras in New Orleans, if not heterosexuals flaunting their sin? What about the St. Patrick's Day Parade, for a Day which has become a celebration of drinking?

If all of us are sinners, what business of yours is it if other choose to happily do something sinful? Isn't it your job, as a Christian, to make sure that you resist the temptation to join that sinful activity?

And, honestly, do you think that making gay marriage illegal is going to stop Gay Pride Parades? The point is, everyone needs to be granted the same legal rights. The Pride Parades started to make others aware that people were not going to be arrested and shamed for loving people of their own gender anymore. They continue both as a celebration of how far the Gay Rights movement as come, and to show the dedication people have to furthering the cause. Also, they are very fun for the people involved in them.

No one is making you watch or participate in any Gay Parades. It is your right not to go to any, ever. But why should your dislike of these parades, because you feel those people are "sinful" be justification for your desire to prevent gay people from getting the legal right to marry the person they love?

 

[SiderealExalt]

It also has to do with most homo couples parading around in Pride Parades, flaunting their sin.

This country is a democratic republic. That means it does not revolve around sin, or your religion at all. If homosexuals want to have a legal gay pride parade or any other such event. They can. Get over it.

It is one thing to know something is a sin and do it anyway and still be aware that you have sinned and be sorry for it, and quite another to openly flaunt the sin and be proud of it.

I'm more worried about people who treat others as second class citizens than the people just trying to live their lives.

I didn't like the idiot street preacher and company that used to go up and down Beal St.(until the city banned them But that doesn't mean I didn't realize they had legal rights.



It is one thing to know something is a sin and do it anyway and still be aware that you have sinned and be sorry for it, and quite another to openly flaunt the sin and be proud of it

 

[Wyzaard]

Homosexuals do not "marry" THAT is mocking marriage. Drawing a line and saying enough is enough is not mocking anything.

"Literalist christianity is not a reasonable religion... THAT is mocking faith in general. Drawing a line and saying enough is enough is not mocking anything."

That's not the real problem. The real problem is that Christian morals are absolute while the morals you want are shifting to fit the situation.

Wait... when have you shown that your moral system is absolute? I call shens.

 

[Wyzaard]

It also has to do with most homo couples parading around in Pride Parades, flaunting their sin. It is one thing to know something is a sin and do it anyway and still be aware that you have sinned and be sorry for it, and quite another to openly flaunt the sin and be proud of it.

"Well, I for one do not like Christians strutting around flaunting their superstitions and delusions. It's one thing to hold onto ridiculous beliefs, and quite another to be public and proud of being so dim."

 

[OphidiaPhile]

"Well, I for one do not like Christians strutting around flaunting their superstitions and delusions. It's one thing to hold onto ridiculous beliefs, and quite another to be public and proud of being so dim."

+1